[url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/23/uk-european-commission-eu-budget-contribution ]Got to love those keraaaaazy yurpeans[/url] and their dodgy maths, and perfect timing 😆
Cheers!
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Lets hit them with a bill on the run up to Christmas.
Hello - independence from Europe.
Timed with almost comedy perfection...
The first thing I thought was that this was going to play straight in to his hands. Manna from heaven for Farage.
It's as if they want the UK to leave..... 🙂
The first thing I thought was that this was going to play straight in to his hands. Manna from heaven for Farage.
yep - he must think Christmas has come early!
I don't reallt have much of an opinion about Europe most of the time, there are decent arguments on both sides.
However this takes the biscuit - I would tell them to get lost. What are they going to do if we don't pay anyway? They probably can't afford to have us leave so this seems crazy.
France and Germany are getting rebates. Would our politicians be making such a fuss if the EU had calculated we would get a rebate?
[quote=somewhatslightlydazed said]France and Germany are getting rebates. Would our politicians be making such a fuss if the EU had calculated we would get a rebate?
We're not though are we 🙂
I wonder how Daves feeling about Rochester and Strood by-election now? Wonder if the bookies odds have just changed, at all? And I wonder what Nige will be putting on all his leaflets? The ones already on the way to the printers. You couldn't make it up.
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To balance it out...
How much trade have we gained in that time without import/export tariffs that without being part of the EU we would not have?
The day after the head of the NHS says we need £8billion extra (IIRC) over the next few years this demand for a quarter of that before the end of the year comes in.
The day after the head of the NHS says we need £8billion extra (IIRC) over the next few years this demand for a quarter of that before the end of the year comes in.
Now Dave knows how the rest of us feel when HMRC starts weaving its unexpected magic.
Maybe they found out about this?
Does stink of something that SSE or NPOWER would do.
However this takes the biscuit - I would tell them to get lost. What are they going to do if we don't pay anyway? They probably can't afford to have us leave so this seems crazy.
You do know we agreed to all this when we joined....
We're not though are we
Quite. CMD could try and avoid paying if he can (thats just business), but don't go acting all outraged and waffle on about "natural justice" like John Redwood just did on the Today program. Bunch of ****ing hypocrites.
The bankers can pay it off for us.
Hmm. How is this any different from having to pay more tax when you earn more money?
It's alright we'll put the student loans company in charge of managing the repayment schedule. The European will get so frustrated that they're bound to give up in the end...
This is a proper gift to UKIP. I wonder if Dave's recent posturing over immigration policy got them thinking up ways to bugger about with the tories domestically, this will drive a good number of the swivel eyed further towards Nige...
The bankers can pay it off for us.
With our taxes no doubt.
Perhaps the more prominent EU nations want shot of the UK & are trying their hardest to give Nige all the ammo he needs? 😉
molgrips - Member
Hmm. How is this any different from having to pay more tax when you earn more money?
Its not Mollster. But if HMRC gave you a bell this morning and said 'we've been miscalculating your tax for the last 20 years. Sorry about that. Could you just write us a cheque for £500,000 and we'll be on our way'
.... how would you feel? Would you shrug, say 'fair enough. An honest mistake to make, I'll get my wallet'. Or would you be calling them a bunch of *ing incompetent *s!!!! and wishing them all dead? As you remortgage your house to pay their new bill?
Hmmmmm.... I wonder....
Then an oily bloke comes round and says 'vote for me, and you'll never have to worry about HMRC ever again! You'll be shut of them forever. Fancy a pint?'
Way way down the article:
further six amending budgets on the table in Brussels, some of which may entail returning funds to Britain, meaning the overall bill could yet be cut.
Trust this will still be an outrageous disgrace if we end up getting money back
Apparently it's based on better than expected UK earnings since 1995. I doubt they can really pull that trick.
How's Germanys economy performed over the last 20 odd years? Are they really due a rebate? I think it will get dropped, This is just a shot across the bows for CMD.
Trust this will still be an outrageous disgrace if we end up getting money back
... and the chances of that actually happening is?
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Interesting cut-off point. I wonder if we got additional funds sent our way when we were in the proverbial in the early/mid 90s.
(I know we were getting some sort of spurious rebate throughout that period which we have now surrendered)
It's a something out of nothing story. The calculation was based on forecasts. Those forecasts have turned out to be a bit pessimistic and we've had far better growth than we said we would therefore we owe more money.
It really does't seem much different to me doing my taxes. If I say that I'm going to earn £20,000 over the course of the next year my half yearly tax is going to be based on £10,000. But if I have a better than expected year and actually earn £40,000 then the balancing payment at the end of the year is going to be based on 3 times the half yearly sum. The final payment would look huge in comparison but I'm not actually paying back any more than is owed, the only error is in my forecasting and lack of forward planning. So in that situation I would be at fault.
How much trade have we gained in that time without import/export tariffs that without being part of the EU we would not have?
I can't see the Germans or the French putting up import tariffs on the UK, they export far too much for us to want to engage in such a trade war. If we weren't in the EU we could stop the tax abuse of Amazon, Google, Facebook, Starbucks and Apple almost overnight.
Hmm. How is this any different from having to pay more tax when you earn more money?
@molgrips its more like being asked for extra tax as your colleagues have missed their targets
Kunkers has been winding up the rhetoric and now this, a gift to UKIP
The timing really is bizarre tbh given they say they want us to stay.
As others note I am not sure how other thriving economies get a rebate
Then again if we were not drug fuelled pervs we could have got a rebate
Eurostat arrived at the €2.1bn figure on the basis of new methods of calculating member states’ GNI since 1995, taking account of previously unreported or under-reported black economy elements, such as drug dealing and consumption or the sex industry.
If we weren't in the EU we could stop the tax abuse of Amazon, Google, Facebook, Starbucks and Apple almost overnight.
ORLY??
Please explain.
I can't see the Germans or the French putting up import tariffs on the UK, they export far too much for us to want to engage in such a trade war.
Its the EU and the simple facts are in a trade war they would murder us. its like you having a fight with someone x 5 your own size, you might hurt them but you are never going to win.
Also lots of companies who take advantage of our " flexible labour markets*" would leave as they trade mainly in the EU
* this mean workers have less rights and get paid less than elsewhere in the EU but they spin it as a good thing
Eurostat arrived at the €2.1bn figure on the basis of new methods of calculating member states’ GNI since 1995, taking account of previously unreported or under-reported black economy elements, such as drug dealing and consumption or the sex industry.
That's hilarious. Presumably why the Dutch have got a big bill too.
How can you possibly quantify that kind of economic activity properly? Or expect government to shell out when much of it is untaxed and untaxable?
If we weren't in the EU we could stop the tax abuse of Amazon, Google, Facebook, Starbucks and Apple almost overnight.
What sort of tax abuse? If you mean the avopidance of paying corporation tax, I think that has very little or nothing to do with being in the EU or not.
The European Commission has reviewed the economic performance of all member states since 1995, and revised its economic statistics to take greater account of things like income from the black economy.The result is that the UK faces by far the largest extra payment. The Netherlands and Italy also have big bills to pay, and even a struggling country like Greece will see its contribution go up.
In contrast, both Germany and France will get rebates - €1bn for the French.
Lucky Germany and France, never liked us....
NB Amazon doesn't aim to make a gross profit; they plan to re-invest all their net profits in new ventures / expansion as their business model is to target growth rather than profitability.
I would tell them to get lost. What are they going to do if we don't pay anyway? They probably can't afford to have us leave so this seems crazy.
"Fog in channel; Continent cut off"
@molgrips its more like being asked for extra tax as your colleagues have missed their targets
Not really. Sales people are in it to make profit for themselves, like any other employed person. This is more like taxation than remuneration.
STW is clearly to blame, coke and hookers is always the first suggestion to spend a bit of extra cash! Look where that's got us!
Dave's asked for a meeting of EU finance ministers
So he can be ignored again? I wonder if he has that Alan Partidge thing going on when he's talking to them? Where his mind wanders off to visualise Nigel Farage making him dance on a stage in his underwear
A grateful nation delivers a sigh of relief
I wonder if it is PR so he can talk tough and get it overturned then get electoral success and the EU can look like it listens to our concerns #conspiracy
[quote=Junkyard said]
I wonder if it is PR so he can talk tough and get it overturned then get electoral success and the EU can look like it listens to our concerns #conspiracy
The thought had crossed my mind also [it didn't take long 😉 ].
Apparently Italy also owe some money.
Good luck with that chaps.
Will that be due to the resounding success of their booming economy too?
[quote=binners said]Will that be due to the resounding success of their booming economy too?
Tidyup bill for the pan-European Bunga-bunga tour.
binners - MemberWill that be due to the resounding success of their booming economy too?
You couldn't make it up ...
[i]It appears that only Italy’s booming organised crime sector has been able to lift the country’s moribund economy out of recession.
Accounting changes across the EU have seen key illegal economic activities such as prostitution and drug trafficking included in a country’s official GDP measure.
As a result, Italy’s economy was said to have risen slightly from a 0.1 per cent decline for the first quarter of 2014 to a flat reading, the National Institute for Statistics, Istat, said.
[/i]
even as a fan of the EU this is sitting laughing with your head in your hands time.
Its beyond parody
As per @somewhats's and @monkey's posts it seems it was the coke and hookers 😀
[i]Eurostat arrived at the €2.1bn figure on the basis of new methods of calculating member states’ GNI since 1995, taking account of previously unreported or under-reported black economy elements, such as drug dealing and consumption or the sex industry.[/i]
Accounting changes across the EU have seen key illegal economic activities such as prostitution and drug trafficking included in a country’s official GDP measure.
Its April 1st surely?
So its the bankers again. I've seen wolf on wall street.
[i]It's a something out of nothing story. The calculation was based on forecasts. Those forecasts have turned out to be a bit pessimistic and we've had far better growth than we said we would therefore we owe more money.[/i]
The bit I don't understand is that if the 'rules' are known by all then the UK Govt (and presumably the others too) would calculate this on an on-going basis anyway to make sure that they paid in the right amount. I can't imagine that they rely on been sent a bill.
They'd run forecasts etc and should know exactly what the bill will be for any given forecast, and if it relies upon other countries economies too - then add them into the model.
Also in the story is this small sentance...
The UK has received rebates in the past as a result of this process.
Non-story: the revision. It's how these things work (albeit with a complex and opaque process)
Story: why the EU cannot tell a straight story and communicate effectively
So guys, tell us, is this simply a surcharge to reflect a change in accounting rules or not.Yes, no, yes is not helpful.
Accounting changes are a 2016 story surely?
Not sure there is much CMD can do here. Manna from heaven for UKIP though. I wonder if Farage has attended enough meeting to understand how the EU budget works?
CMD "will not pay" may come back to haunt him.
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/cameron-urges-britons-to-steal-from-european-hotels-2014102492080 ]Dave has come up with some proposals[/url]
He's got a point binners, the freebie shower gel is MUCH better in germany
footflaps said:
You do know we agreed to all this when we joined....
What we agreed to join was the Common Market, its primary aim was to make trading easier with the other 5 members.
No mention of the laughingly entitled 'human rights' legislation or any other of the ludicrous socialist policies imposed upon us. No mention of paying vast sums to poor countries that their population might come and burden us with their presence, a burden born by we the UK tax payer.
This latest demand is simply a ploy to avoid the promised UK referendum*. Didn't Bliar and Brown promise such a thing ? Even they realised that the EU needs us far more than we need it, so no referendum.
HTF does bankrupt Greece need to contribute more? Oh I know 'lend' them yet more money to write-off at some point in the future - only the EU could make that one up .
* That ploy looks like a huge gamble because the undecided have already leapt off the fence to vote 'yes we leave ASAP'.
Sounds like a UKIP manifesto!
Funny how the things we did sign up to - free movement of people, capital, goods, services etc - seem to create so much aggravation!
<Cynical>
Perhaps a deal behind the scenes, EU agreed to announce this and then back down, allowing Dave to look tough and like he's taking on the EU, thereby keeping us in and preventing a referendum ever really happening.
</Cynical>
No mention of the laughingly entitled 'human rights' legislation
The European Convention on Human Rights isn't anything to do with the EU. It's a europe wide treaty, even Russia has signed it.
Don't let the facts get in the way of a good old moan though.
jfletch - Member
No mention of the laughingly entitled 'human rights' legislation
The European Convention on Human Rights isn't anything to do with the EU. It's a europe wide treaty, even Russia has signed it
Yeah right. And they stick to it eh?
It's like all the daftest rules, it seems it's only the UK that actually seems stick to them. It is the same with business grants system - other countries bend the rules (or misappropriate, depending on your view) which is one of the main reasons why the EU has never been able to get a set of audited accounts in its entire history.
[quote=ninfan said]<Cynical>
Perhaps a deal behind the scenes, EU agreed to announce this and then back down, allowing Dave to look tough and like he's taking on the EU, thereby keeping us in and preventing a referendum ever really happening.
</Cynical>
did that one up there ^^^^^
ninfan - Member<Cynical>
Perhaps a deal behind the scenes, EU agreed to announce this and then back down, allowing Dave to look tough and like he's taking on the EU, thereby keeping us in and preventing a referendum ever really happening.
</Cynical>
I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, but looking at the BBC headlines, the same thought just crossed my mind. It all seems a little bit too convenient.
A good wheeze to make the C3PO-shaped, Europhile ham look competant?somewhatslightlydazed - MemberI'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, but looking at the BBC headlines, the same thought just crossed my mind. It all seems a little bit too convenient.
Cameron was on on the new saying absolutely no way will this 2.1Bn euro be paid.
Wonder when he'll quietly u-turn? Ask for it to be paid in June?
I heard him say he would not pay on time not that it wont be paid
Yip - Dave's sticking it to the EU. And 'Battling for Britain' seems to amount to asking for an extension to pay it, while looking really really cross!
Fixed that for you.binners - Member
Yip - Dave's sticking it to the EU. And 'battling for Britain' seems to amount to asking for an extension to pay it, while looking really really [s]cross[/s] constipated.
Nothing he ever says about [i]his[/i] opinions on the EU ever rings true for me. I'm afraid my inclination is to believe he is one of the piggies drawn to the EU trough.
Loving Cameron's faux outrage
Its almost as though its scripted, the treasury knew about it for a while but this email s obviously the right time for Dave to take a stand
As I said on another thread on the subject, Daves a Thatcherite. He loves the EU! No matter what he says when he's posturing, trying to woo UKIP voters.
His corporate paymasters demand an endless stream of cheap labour to drive wages down. He's more than happy to oblige. He won't do a thing about immigration for this reason. Dave represents the interests of the corporate boardrooms in the City. And they like Europe just the way it is, thanks very much.
He just needs to pop over the channel every once in a while and pretend to be really really annoyed, and the whole ridiculous charade continues
seems to amount to asking for an extension to pay it, while looking really really cross!
If you push him he will wag his finger and look really really disapprovingly at you.
Binners is spot on - I am no UKIP supporter but the whole political system in the UK is driven by self interest - I hated Thatcher and what she did to the north east of england (we are mired in her decisions today with no way out) but at least she believed she was trying to improve things - Blair and Cameron are exactly the same (except Dave aspires to be like Tony) we are ruled by wealth takers and not wealth makers - it's not going to change get used to it - this all goes back to the Norman Conquest (don't get me started on that one)
Knowing the current political situation in the country and an election next year. It would be a good time to destabilise a country....if thats what someone wants to do.
Despite Dave's blusyer I suspect the bill will be paid in full and on time, but out of sight of Mr Farage.
What we agreed to join was the Common Market, its primary aim was to make trading easier with the other 5 members.
No mention of the laughingly entitled 'human rights' legislation
The Human Rights Act is an act of the UK parliament. It is not EU legislation. Parliament did not have to pass it; it chose to.
The European Convention on Human Rights is nothing to do with the EU, EC, EEC or Common Market.
I heard him say he would not pay on time not that it wont be paid
Glad someone else noticed that.
Taxes going up soon then.
The Treasury where told last week, the Government / PM was told yesterday I believe. Yes Cameron said it would not be paid Dec 1 but he didn't say it would not be paid.
We should note that the £1.7bn is greater than the amount the Labour Party said they'd increase NHS spending by
It's seems quite ridiculous that there is a formula for the calculation of this tax which takes into account the black market economy which by its very nature is largely unknown.
On the ECHR its my understanding its a condition of joining the EU that you sign up for it. We do have the right to pass new laws which mean we are not driven by the ECHR precedents. It is these which are the real issue as the law itself is very close to what we already had in place, it's the case law / precedent which differs. This issue is related to opposition to the EU as its another examle of foreign bodies having a greater authority than UK Parliament and our courts
What's funny (to me anyway) is we've just had a big Scottish referendum thing where we were told over and over that pooling and sharing of resources is a good thing. Isn't that all this is?
I thought you wanted independence?
It's like all the daftest rules, it seems it's only the UK that actually seems stick to them. It is the same with business grants system - other countries bend the rules (or misappropriate, depending on your view) which is one of the main reasons why the EU has never been able to get a set of audited accounts in its entire history.
Contrast this with…
Eurostat arrived at the €2.1bn figure on the basis of new methods of calculating member states’ GNI since 1995, taking account of previously unreported or under-reported black economy elements…
And…
It's seems quite ridiculous that there is a formula for the calculation of this tax which takes into account the black market economy which by its very nature is largely unknown.
So, if we're the country that follows the rules, we have no black market…?
Or are we as corrupt and off the books as any other country, we just like to fool ourselves that we're the honest and all on the books country?
pennyfarthing - MemberNo mention of the laughingly entitled 'human rights' legislation or any other of the ludicrous socialist policies imposed upon us.
It's interesting to note that you should consider human rights legislation be "socialist policies".
It's also interesting to note that you appear blissfully unaware that conservatives, not socialists, have dominated the EU Parliament ever since it's been called the EU.
The current makeup :
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Although I'm prepared to accept that despite being dominated by Conservatives the EU Parliament still isn't right-wing enough for some people. UKIP fruitcakes typically see anyone slightly to the left of Thatcher as socialists.
And in a single stroke Ernie made sense of everything. Awesome 8)