Totally unnecessary confrontation yesterday (bike theft/"Falling Down" content)

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Totally unnecessary confrontation yesterday (bike theft/"Falling Down" content)

107 posts & 66 voices | Started 7 months ago by jhw | Latest reply from kudos100

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jhw - Member

My very beautiful road bike was stolen in London so I duly trekked down to Brick Lane market at 7:50am on Sunday morning to see if it was there. I spent all morning mingling with the various fences there, sidling up to them in a friendly sort of way and asking if they had anything else that was coming in. I'm ashamed to admit that in my bag I had a 60cm ice axe in case things got ugly (and with these guys, I think it would have).

I gave up at about noon and got the train out to my parents' where I store a hardtail that is an appropriate backup bike for commuting. When I got back to London I thought I'd take one more look at the market, but of course there was still nothing there. I went up to one of the fences and I'm ashamed to admit had exactly this conversation:

Me: "So where's that bike from" (pointing at Allez in the fence's hands)
Fence: "What do you mean"
M: "Where's it from"
F: "You know where it's from...[small voice, looks a bit embarassed] it's stolen"
M: "My bike got stolen last night"
F: "Ah you need to get here earlier, we had a carbon bike but it went in ten minutes"
M: "I know, I saw it, the Ribble"
F [begins trying to move away from me and talking to a potential customer. I put my arm around him (gently, not aggressively) and leant in]
M: "I'm going to come down here every weekend, and watch you from a distance, and if I see you selling my bike, I'm going to kill you"
F: "What"
M: [Still quietly] "If I see you selling my bike I'll kill you"
The f*cker just sort of laughed. He was this rasta guy who actually seemed quite affable but you know. Nothing kicked off and I walked away and he continued selling bikes just like mine.

I admit it, I lost my cool and this was undignified, but I'm not going to get my bike back am I? So I hope at least that now every time this guy sells a bike, he has the seed of a thought in the back of his mind that it's going to get him an ice axe in his skull. But I'm a bit ashamed, threatening violence solves nothing, do the right thing etc. - I know this isn't acceptable behaviour and indeed is a bit of a chavvy thing to do.

Posted 7 months ago #
wwaswas - Member

I think morally you're still ok, personally. Actually killing him may leave you open to further criticism, though.

Did you put on a Michael Caine voice too?

Posted 7 months ago #
jhw - Member

No, effeminate indignant home counties is more my schtick. Oh wait, Caine now lives in Surrey!

Posted 7 months ago #
ChunkyMTB - Member

You need....

Posted 7 months ago #
GlitterGary - Member

If you showed him the axe he would have known you meant business.

Posted 7 months ago #
jhw - Member

For the avoidance of doubt, I was merely taking it to the shop to get it sharpened, via Brick Lane.

God knows what would have happened if he'd been less of a cheerful fellow, I'm pants with my fists. But I really liked that bike and it was uninsured so...seen Falling Down yeah?

Posted 7 months ago #
Houns - Member

Racist

Posted 7 months ago #
Houns - Member

(That's the touch paper lit, enjoy the thread)

Posted 7 months ago #
TPTcruiser - Member

I think you are well within the "mourning" period over the loss of your bike and all wee in shoes and own with bombers thoughts are acceptable.
Did you show the fence the ice axe? Would have been interesting to have a heart monitor or bladder tensometer on the fellow.

Posted 7 months ago #
BadlyWiredDog - Member

.

Posted 7 months ago #
crikey - Member

You're lucky he didn't shove it up your arse. Mate of mine tried to teach a couple of guys a lesson after they insulted his girlfriend; he took her home then went back with a baseball bat.

They carefully and considerately took the bat off him, broke his nose, beat him around the body then gave him his bat back and explained that he was lucky it was them and not someone who would beat him half to death in an alleyway.

Posted 7 months ago #
mooman - Member

.. not quite sure of the point your trying to make here?

Posted 7 months ago #
jhw - Member

Yep - it was not the right thing to do (from both ethical and practical perspectives) but I post it here as hey it was a funny old exchange which one doesn't see every day. Not trying to brag in any way - the opposite.

Probably would've been safer with a baseball bat, as the ice axe is bladed and therefore I'd hesitate more to use it.

Posted 7 months ago #
crikey - Member

The point is that offering violence to people may result in you getting an ice axe up your bum. I'm sorry, I can't make it any simpler.

Posted 7 months ago #
themanfromdelmonte - Member

Judge Lionel Nutmeg says "If you had killed him, you'd be prosecuted for undue leniency. As death is too good for bike thieves and the sellers of stolen bikes."

Posted 7 months ago #
wwaswas - Member

If the police had a 'prove it's legit and who you bought it from' approach with these guys it would help a lot, I think.

Posted 7 months ago #
jhw - Member

How did they get the bat off him? I don't think they would've been able to get my axe as they'd have been preoccupied with trying to fish their hand, nose, etc. out of the gutter. My calculation was that I'd be fine unless someone had a gun. Not trying to sound hard, more conveying the extent to which I was under a red mist at the time.

I did enjoy the Pulp Fiction style "select your weapon" process in my flat that morning - "rolling pin?" no "baseball bat?" no "machete?" maybe "airsoft MP-5 with red dot sight?" no, too much SWAT risk "ice axe?" perfect

Not condoning any of this, the whole thing was pathetic and probably illegal

Posted 7 months ago #
wwaswas - Member

I suspect he bottled it.

Most people would, I think, they're just not used to inflicting harm to others.

Posted 7 months ago #
crikey - Member

That's exactly what he thought; he was a fairly handy chap, known for being a scrapper. He stopped scrapping from that day onwards because he said he realised how close he came to getting properly hurt. Red mist just means you're not thinking..

Posted 7 months ago #
crikey - Member

Oh and ice axe?
You might poke a hole in someone, which just makes them annoyed; I see far more blunt instrument trauma unfortunately.

Posted 7 months ago #
jhw - Member

You're right.

There is though an awesome Youtube video of some LA gang abusing a guy as he drives through in his SUV...the SUV stops 50m down the road and the big man gets out with a baseball bat...and proceeds to knock each gang member down individually (or two at a time in one case) as if they were bowling pins.

I abhor violence.

Posted 7 months ago #
yunki - Member

first rule of fightclub.. never carry a weapon unless you're prepared to use it or some such..?

I remember friends of mine as teenagers getting beaten to an unrecognisable pulp after they had their macho posturing weapons (baseball bats) taken off them by the fellas they were attempting to 'intimidate'

and if you were prepared to use an ice axe over the theft of your bike then you would have surely deserved any prison sentence (or section under the mental health act.. or shooting by police marksman) that your actions might have incurred..

I'll sleep slightly less soundly tonight knowing that there are sillybollocks like you roaming our streets

Posted 7 months ago #
Zulu-Eleven - Member

Tuff guy walt

Threats like that are just childish unless you're actually willing to go through with them.

People man enough to go through with them, don't bother making threats first, they just do it!

Posted 7 months ago #
float - Member

surely money means more to him than death threats. offer to give him as much as he wants if he manages to get hold of it. i suppose what you do if he did get it would be up to you...

Posted 7 months ago #
jhw - Member

All true. I'm not defending any of the stuff in the original post - it's just a narrative.

The axe wasn't on display - I just had it in my bag in case I saw my bike being sold, went to retrieve it and the guy pulled a knife, "that's not a knife" kind of thing.

Although in retrospect it was probably not the most appropriate melee weapon as there's no way you could hit someone with an ice axe and not give them a potentially life-threatening injury. Not practical for the casual streetfight. A baseball bat would've been better; or perhaps an ice axe with the plastic blade protector in place.

Posted 7 months ago #
Bazz - Member

What a country we live in, people will openly admit to selling stolen goods without fear of arrest or prosecution.

Posted 7 months ago #
Elfinsafety - Member

Ooh....

first rule of fightclub.. never carry a weapon unless you're prepared to use it or some such..?

This, basically.

I can understand your anger, and don't blame you for having violent thoughts.

But you went armed with the intention of possibly using a weapon.

I don't think they would've been able to get my axe as they'd have been preoccupied with trying to fish their hand, nose, etc. out of the gutter.

Personally, if I were you I'd seek professional help, if you are going so far as to pack an ice-axe to deal with someone over a stolen bicycle. A few big chunky mates is one thing; going down on your own with an ice axe in a bag is a whole nother level.

It might be a beloved possession, a lovely bike, your pride and joy, but ultimately it's just a bike. Not worth doing time over.

You need to step back and take stock of things mate, for your sake, for your family and loved ones' sake.

Hurting someone else aint gonna make things right, it'll just make things much worse. And it'll be you who suffers. Trust me.

Posted 7 months ago #
warton - Member

What is this brick lane market that openly sells stolen bikes? Don't the police do anything about it?

Posted 7 months ago #
Elfinsafety - Member

S'in That London's Notorious East End, innit?

TBH hundreds of bikes are sold there every weekend (well known s/h goods market), most of them legit. You do always get scrotes who sell bent gear though, it's always bin like that down there. It's a magnet for people looking for cheap bikes; many are unaware/uncaring that they are stolen. The police round here have precious resources as it is, and bike theft isn't seen as high-priority.

Carrying offensive weapons, GBH and Murder are though....

Posted 7 months ago #
woodsie - Member

just on series 3 of dexter....you could be the vigilante of the bike loss world....starting with your own pride and joy....sorry for your loss

Posted 7 months ago #
fourbanger - Member

yunki

fellas

Lol. Must be a thread about Internet tough guys! And for whoever said an ice axe will just put holes in people and make them angry, you think if i embeded 6 inches of it into your shoulder it isn't going to stop you? Seriously?!

Posted 7 months ago #
enfht - Member

Lots of markets in London where stolen bikes are sold.

Someone on here a while back managed to recover their bike but had to wrestle it off the "market stall holder" as it was literally being sold!

If only some Old Bill used STW then maybe one of them could explain why these scumbags work so openly without fear...

Posted 7 months ago #
singletrackmind - Member

Are you going back next Sunday morning ?( without the ice axe )
Would seem silly not too
I take it you are keeping an eye on Guntree / fleabay?

Posted 7 months ago #
Taz - Member

Several years ago an acquaintance of mine had his rather cheap and nasty bike nicked by some travellers (think that is the accepted term now???)

He decided to get his baseball bat and 'sort them out'. No doubt in my mind he was prepared to go through with it. He was (and probably still is) a nut.

He arrived at the site and started threatening folks. They promptly over powered him, took his bat and sent him to the ICU for a couple of months.

Reckon the guy laughed at you as he knew that if you were stupid enough to ever try that, you would end up significantly the worse for wear.

Understand you frustration but it's just a bike.

Posted 7 months ago #
petrieboy - Member

Any weapon you are not fully prepared to use will end up in the back of your head. Even if the guy you threaten with it isn't a total nutjob, anyone who's threatened with an ice axe is very likley going to feel sufficiently threatened to use full force against you.
I doubt your a fully fledged nut job (as said above, you wouldn't make idle threats if you did) but you do sound like you need some emotional help and counselling.

Posted 7 months ago #