Totally unnecessary confrontation yesterday (bike theft/"Falling Down" content)

My very beautiful road bike was stolen in London so I duly trekked down to Brick Lane market at 7:50am on Sunday morning to see if it was there. I spent all morning mingling with the various fences there, sidling up to them in a friendly sort of way and asking if they had anything else that was coming in. I’m ashamed to admit that in my bag I had a 60cm ice axe in case things got ugly (and with these guys, I think it would have).

I gave up at about noon and got the train out to my parents’ where I store a hardtail that is an appropriate backup bike for commuting. When I got back to London I thought I’d take one more look at the market, but of course there was still nothing there. I went up to one of the fences and I’m ashamed to admit had exactly this conversation:

Me: “So where’s that bike from” (pointing at Allez in the fence’s hands)
Fence: “What do you mean”
M: “Where’s it from”
F: “You know where it’s from…[small voice, looks a bit embarassed] it’s stolen”
M: “My bike got stolen last night”
F: “Ah you need to get here earlier, we had a carbon bike but it went in ten minutes”
M: “I know, I saw it, the Ribble”
F [begins trying to move away from me and talking to a potential customer. I put my arm around him (gently, not aggressively) and leant in]
M: “I’m going to come down here every weekend, and watch you from a distance, and if I see you selling my bike, I’m going to kill you”
F: “What”
M: [Still quietly] “If I see you selling my bike I’ll kill you”
The f*cker just sort of laughed. He was this rasta guy who actually seemed quite affable but you know. Nothing kicked off and I walked away and he continued selling bikes just like mine.

I admit it, I lost my cool and this was undignified, but I’m not going to get my bike back am I? So I hope at least that now every time this guy sells a bike, he has the seed of a thought in the back of his mind that it’s going to get him an ice axe in his skull. But I’m a bit ashamed, threatening violence solves nothing, do the right thing etc. – I know this isn’t acceptable behaviour and indeed is a bit of a chavvy thing to do.

I think morally you’re still ok, personally. Actually killing him may leave you open to further criticism, though.

Did you put on a Michael Caine voice too?

No, effeminate indignant home counties is more my schtick. Oh wait, Caine now lives in Surrey!

You need….

If you showed him the axe he would have known you meant business.

For the avoidance of doubt, I was merely taking it to the shop to get it sharpened, via Brick Lane.

God knows what would have happened if he’d been less of a cheerful fellow, I’m pants with my fists. But I really liked that bike and it was uninsured so…seen Falling Down yeah?

Racist

(That’s the touch paper lit, enjoy the thread)

I think you are well within the “mourning” period over the loss of your bike and all wee in shoes and own with bombers thoughts are acceptable.
Did you show the fence the ice axe? Would have been interesting to have a heart monitor or bladder tensometer on the fellow.

.

You’re lucky he didn’t shove it up your arse. Mate of mine tried to teach a couple of guys a lesson after they insulted his girlfriend; he took her home then went back with a baseball bat.

They carefully and considerately took the bat off him, broke his nose, beat him around the body then gave him his bat back and explained that he was lucky it was them and not someone who would beat him half to death in an alleyway.

.. not quite sure of the point your trying to make here?
😕

Yep – it was not the right thing to do (from both ethical and practical perspectives) but I post it here as hey it was a funny old exchange which one doesn’t see every day. Not trying to brag in any way – the opposite.

Probably would’ve been safer with a baseball bat, as the ice axe is bladed and therefore I’d hesitate more to use it.

The point is that offering violence to people may result in you getting an ice axe up your bum. I’m sorry, I can’t make it any simpler.

Judge Lionel Nutmeg says “If you had killed him, you’d be prosecuted for undue leniency. As death is too good for bike thieves and the sellers of stolen bikes.”

If the police had a ‘prove it’s legit and who you bought it from’ approach with these guys it would help a lot, I think.

How did they get the bat off him? I don’t think they would’ve been able to get my axe as they’d have been preoccupied with trying to fish their hand, nose, etc. out of the gutter. My calculation was that I’d be fine unless someone had a gun. Not trying to sound hard, more conveying the extent to which I was under a red mist at the time.

I did enjoy the Pulp Fiction style “select your weapon” process in my flat that morning – “rolling pin?” no “baseball bat?” no “machete?” maybe “airsoft MP-5 with red dot sight?” no, too much SWAT risk “ice axe?” perfect

Not condoning any of this, the whole thing was pathetic and probably illegal

I suspect he bottled it.

Most people would, I think, they’re just not used to inflicting harm to others.

That’s exactly what he thought; he was a fairly handy chap, known for being a scrapper. He stopped scrapping from that day onwards because he said he realised how close he came to getting properly hurt. Red mist just means you’re not thinking..

Oh and ice axe?
You might poke a hole in someone, which just makes them annoyed; I see far more blunt instrument trauma unfortunately.

You’re right.

There is though an awesome Youtube video of some LA gang abusing a guy as he drives through in his SUV…the SUV stops 50m down the road and the big man gets out with a baseball bat…and proceeds to knock each gang member down individually (or two at a time in one case) as if they were bowling pins.

I abhor violence.

first rule of fightclub.. never carry a weapon unless you’re prepared to use it or some such..?

I remember friends of mine as teenagers getting beaten to an unrecognisable pulp after they had their macho posturing weapons (baseball bats) taken off them by the fellas they were attempting to ‘intimidate’

and if you were prepared to use an ice axe over the theft of your bike then you would have surely deserved any prison sentence (or section under the mental health act.. or shooting by police marksman) that your actions might have incurred..

I’ll sleep slightly less soundly tonight knowing that there are sillybollocks like you roaming our streets

Tuff guy walt 😆

Threats like that are just childish unless you’re actually willing to go through with them.

People man enough to go through with them, don’t bother making threats first, they just do it!

surely money means more to him than death threats. offer to give him as much as he wants if he manages to get hold of it. i suppose what you do if he did get it would be up to you…

All true. I’m not defending any of the stuff in the original post – it’s just a narrative.

The axe wasn’t on display – I just had it in my bag in case I saw my bike being sold, went to retrieve it and the guy pulled a knife, “that’s not a knife” kind of thing.

Although in retrospect it was probably not the most appropriate melee weapon as there’s no way you could hit someone with an ice axe and not give them a potentially life-threatening injury. Not practical for the casual streetfight. A baseball bat would’ve been better; or perhaps an ice axe with the plastic blade protector in place.

What a country we live in, people will openly admit to selling stolen goods without fear of arrest or prosecution. 🙄

Ooh….

first rule of fightclub.. never carry a weapon unless you’re prepared to use it or some such..?

This, basically.

I can understand your anger, and don’t blame you for having violent thoughts.

But you went armed with the intention of possibly using a weapon.

I don’t think they would’ve been able to get my axe as they’d have been preoccupied with trying to fish their hand, nose, etc. out of the gutter.

Personally, if I were you I’d seek professional help, if you are going so far as to pack an ice-axe to deal with someone over a stolen bicycle. A few big chunky mates is one thing; going down on your own with an ice axe in a bag is a whole nother level.

It might be a beloved possession, a lovely bike, your pride and joy, but ultimately it’s just a bike. Not worth doing time over.

You need to step back and take stock of things mate, for your sake, for your family and loved ones’ sake.

Hurting someone else aint gonna make things right, it’ll just make things much worse. And it’ll be you who suffers. Trust me.

What is this brick lane market that openly sells stolen bikes? Don’t the police do anything about it?

S’in That London’s Notorious East End, innit?

TBH hundreds of bikes are sold there every weekend (well known s/h goods market), most of them legit. You do always get scrotes who sell bent gear though, it’s always bin like that down there. It’s a magnet for people looking for cheap bikes; many are unaware/uncaring that they are stolen. The police round here have precious resources as it is, and bike theft isn’t seen as high-priority.

Carrying offensive weapons, GBH and Murder are though….

just on series 3 of dexter….you could be the vigilante of the bike loss world….starting with your own pride and joy….sorry for your loss 🙁

yunki

fellas

Lol. Must be a thread about Internet tough guys! And for whoever said an ice axe will just put holes in people and make them angry, you think if i embeded 6 inches of it into your shoulder it isn’t going to stop you? Seriously?!

Lots of markets in London where stolen bikes are sold.

Someone on here a while back managed to recover their bike but had to wrestle it off the “market stall holder” as it was literally being sold!

If only some Old Bill used STW then maybe one of them could explain why these scumbags work so openly without fear… 😈 🙄

Are you going back next Sunday morning ?( without the ice axe )
Would seem silly not too
I take it you are keeping an eye on Guntree / fleabay?

Several years ago an acquaintance of mine had his rather cheap and nasty bike nicked by some travellers (think that is the accepted term now???)

He decided to get his baseball bat and ‘sort them out’. No doubt in my mind he was prepared to go through with it. He was (and probably still is) a nut.

He arrived at the site and started threatening folks. They promptly over powered him, took his bat and sent him to the ICU for a couple of months.

Reckon the guy laughed at you as he knew that if you were stupid enough to ever try that, you would end up significantly the worse for wear.

Understand you frustration but it’s just a bike.

Any weapon you are not fully prepared to use will end up in the back of your head. Even if the guy you threaten with it isn’t a total nutjob, anyone who’s threatened with an ice axe is very likley going to feel sufficiently threatened to use full force against you.
I doubt your a fully fledged nut job (as said above, you wouldn’t make idle threats if you did) but you do sound like you need some emotional help and counselling.

Excuse the ignorance – what’s a Fence??

Someone on here a while back managed to recover their bike but had to wrestle it off the “market stall holder” as it was literally being sold!

My flatmate had a tatty old bike I’d lent her nicked, then spotted it in BL the following Sunday. T’was on a regular stall, and the guy claimed he’d bought it in good faith (fair enough really, the regulars tend to stay away from hot stuff as they’re mostly just trying to make an honest living). Her mate Rosita held onto it and woon’t let go! I spoke to him on the ‘phone and we agreed he’d let her have it for a tenner, as he said he’d paid £20 for it and was hoping to sell it for £30-40. Had I bin there I’duv just tooken it but hey ho. I dare say there’s a lot of gear down there of dubious provenance, but it’s a second hand market. Yeah the traders should probbly be a bit more on top of things but there you go.

It’s the scrotes selling spensive bikes for £50 you have to watch out for. The regular guts mainly sell older bikes and toot really, no bling. Once saw a £700 Marin sold by a smackhead for a tenner. Breaks your heart. 🙁

Fence = seller of stolen goods. Not the thief, just an inbetweener. Worst they can be done for is handling stolen goods, which carries a relatively light sentence, and even then only if it can be proven they knew the item was stolen. Most of the sellers in BL won’t be the ones who originally stole the bikes. Quite often it’s scrotey yutes what do the nicking (juvenile sentence if caught), and adults who flog them on. An ever growing business in big cities. That’s Capitalism for yer!

, you think if i embeded 6 inches of it into your shoulder it isn’t going to stop you? Seriously?!

Hmmm.
That’s if you get the chance to swing it, and if you hit in the right place, and if it doesn’t bounce off and if and if and if.

There is a reason that law enforcement agencies don’t use ice axes; because they are for ice, not aggression.

I see the end results of people thinking violence is like the movies, when the reality is rather different.

crikey – Member

I see the end results of people thinking violence is like the movies, when the reality is rather different.

I remember seeing a chap break a beer bottle over another chap’s head in a pub- presumably he’d seen it on TV and in films and knew that it’d definately knock him out with one blow. So he seemed quite surprised when instead, a furious man with minor cuts on his head punched out quite a few of his teeth.

Elfin, handling carries a higher sentence than theft precisely because it is handling that drives the market for people to steal in the first place.
There’s a lot of kidology in market trading, some people would like to think they are buying something that is stolen and therefore a bargain (a steal if you will) and the trader will happily sell them a POS BSO with the appropriate nod and wink that they’ve bagged a bargain.