Had my annual visit to Glentress the other day. Is it just me or have they been over all the climbs in a road roller? There was a section on the black descent shut down. It's a pretty techy section in the middle. I hope they're not making it easier!

Anyone else noticed it?

Yip. Black section is closed due to forest harvesting.

As above, plus they're sanitising the red a bit – but I understand why, the volume of riders of varying skill.

Though it's now the case it's by far the least technical of all the stanes red routes. I think it's red only cos of the length now.

I think all the runs at GT are becoming a bit easier because of the sheer numbers of folk using the place, many of whom are just starting out mountain biking. It's also making the runs more maintainable.

I've got mixed feelings about the "dumbing down", but I can see why it's being done, and if it gets more folk into biking then it has to be a good thing. And if it's techy riding you're after there are tons of other places to go after all, whereas there aren't many good places to go if you're just beginning.

Road roller? Nah…the climbs have been chewed up over the winter. Its rougher/rockier if anything.

Think black was scheduled to re-open about now after the felling.

they've filled in some of the lower red trails and taken away a number of rooty corners. I think it's a shame, because on some of them I was just managing to clear them and some I struggled on, so it was the right level of challenge for me.

I understand needing to cater for different levels, but why can't we have alternate routes round the 'harder' bits, rather than just flattening the obstacle altogether?

its a matter of repair not sanitising – areas get eroded away and have to be repaired – its cyclical.

Starts off smooth and groomed – erodes and gets rougher, starts to go thru the structure of the track, relaid as a nice smooth track and the process continues.

Yeah theres always room for optins, especially at Glentress, surely theres enough room there for trails to suit all abilities. Shame if they ruin it, its by far the best of the Stanes IMO. Looking forward to the Mash Up there in July 😛

The corner on Magic Mushroom Wood, just before where the logpile used to be has been backfilled with gravel. I rode around it thinking "this is a piece of p!ss", then SLAM, tasted gravel. Unpleasant. I was then in a grumpy mood and didn't want to play anymore*.

* I had separated my shoulder in January, and it's still not 100%, so a slam was unwelcome. Luckily (!?) I landed on the other shoulder.

Just home from GT now. I would say the grading of the red is correct.

There is no way its blue grade. My 11 year old will ride the blue no problem but would freak out and probably crash if she tried the red.

It is a bit variable though, but as pointed out, it does require maintenance which can result in sanitising some sections for a bit.

Was glad to see quite a few foreign johnnies and julies for that matter there today. Think its folk over for the world cup in Ft Bill doing a bit of exploring.

TandemJeremy – Member
its a matter of repair not sanitising – areas get eroded away and have to be repaired – its cyclical.

exactly, and it just depends on the point within the cycle that you visit.

However, I disagree with what was done with the Magic Mushroom corner, a chicken run would have been far better as it's just motorway now.

That the one with all the roots? Over the years the step at teh end of it had got bigger and bigger and more and more soil had washed out from between the roots – if its the one I am thinking of.

That the one with all the roots? Over the years the step at teh end of it had got bigger and bigger and more and more soil had washed out from between the roots – if its the one I am thinking of

I think it is. Used to be the best line was straight through the middle, though when it was wet I think my success rate was less than 50%. There used to be a big log pile just after it too, for the show offs to ride (show off = someone better than me).

IA – Member
As above, plus they're sanitising the red a bit – but I understand why, the volume of riders of varying skill.

Though it's now the case it's by far the least technical of all the stanes red routes. I think it's red only cos of the length now.

I didn't think it was any less technical than the red runs Kirroughtree or AE – it was certainly faster though.

The big log pile was rotten and had to be removed. The corner before it will erode over time and no doubt eventually will become rooty again. But as TJ says it's cyclical. Post maintenance the trails will be smoother than they were pre maintenance but in general they won't be rebuilt to be less challenging than they were originally built to be.

There does seem to be one exception to that, though. For reasons of sustainability/low maintenance, completely rebuilt sections can't be built with as steep an average gradient as some of the older trails have. But in many cases the plan is to keep old trails at their current gradients where possible.

I am with IA on GT being the easiest of the 7Stanes reds. Much much less technical than Kirroughtree or even Inners.

I am with IA on GT being the easiest of the 7Stanes reds. Much much less technical than Kirroughtree or even Inners.

Unless I'm mistaken, apart from a couple of 1ft drops, there isn't anything that I would describe as technical on the red at Kirroughtree.

Kirroughtree's certainly far, far smoother than glentress, which always makes me laugh a bit because it never gets criticised for it- while GT is variously "too smooth" and "too worn out" depending on who you believe 😉 The wee rock gardens and steps at KT can be a bit intimidating to people and it's generally narrower but personally, I reckon GT's red is technically more challenging on balance. Neither is hard tbh. GT has a lot more optional bits- and again that amuses me, because I've seen people use the shortcuts and chicken runs then later comment that the route was "a bit easy". Take the proper lines then!

The black and red descents are only closed due to forestry ops as someone mentioned, they're all still there- the closure was lifted for a wee while over christmas and none of the trails were touched at all.

The cartwheel on Magic Mushroom is wearing back in nicely I reckon, agreed it was a shame when it got buried, it needed work but maybe it could have been done less invasively. But it'll recover.

There's another big bit on Magic Mushroom which is probably going to cause howls of derision when it opens, because it's wide smooth and fast as all hell, and really is going to be a bit of a motorway… but it replaces a section in bad ground which was falling apart, and a big build was needed to make it durable. I don't like it much but it's the practical option given the ground conditions and access, it's been no fun to work in and the old trail was ****ed.

As for the climbs… Has there been any work on the climbs lately? Can't think of any at all. Other than endless fannying about with the "new" logs on the dougie bank.

If they are dumbing the trails down then surely it is affecting the grading? Is the red still in keeping with a red grade trail? (I've no idea as it's been so long since I was at Glentress)

If the trail is no longer red then it should be regraded OR if it is intended to remain as a red then it should be built as a red and not as a Blueish-red – yes people are riding the trails and a lot don't have the necessary skills – but why remove the need to improve the skills? Surely if it is red then those who can't ride red at present have something to aim for to improve upon? Reducing it down to Blue doesn't really give them an incentive to get better (although they may not be interested in improving just out to enjoy themselves – which is a slightly different kettle of fish).

and if it gets more folk into biking then it has to be a good thing.

Not sure I agree with this sentiment, I hear it all the time across loads of sports but I see positives (of course) and plenty of negatives in expanding sports.

The grading system across the UK is a bit haphazard – it seems gradings are about as consistent as peoples views on the trails.

Rode past the section of Black that has been closed the other week, it looks like an avalanche came down the hill just above the entrance to Deliverance. Trees down all over the place, must have been that late bit of heavy snow bringing down the younger trees.

Gradings are a bit like horoscopes – how can it be consistent with only four categories ? It is to give people an idea, not a strict rulebook.

If its quiet, challenging natural rooty trails you are looking for try Blairadam or Pitmedden in Fife. More roots than you can shake a stick at.

GT is certainly a victim of its own success. But at least it's not like it's promoting the use of crack as a leisure activity. More people on bikes = a good thing, overall, surely.

That being said: the best and most techie bits (IMHO) of GT aren't on the maps, as many folk know. They're down those little bits of trail that you see off the side of 'mapped' trails that you ride past and think to yourself, "I wonder where that goes…"

Lotsa fun exploring, to be shore.

If you think its too easy, why not ride something harder? Or enjoy it for what it is. One of the things that pushed me away from climbing is the obsession with grading, working out just how good you are, or how hard a route you could lead. All this faffing and moaning about grading of routes is just a bit daft. How do you guys manage when you ride natural trails?

grading of trails – wish it had never happened
we didnt have it before so why now??
there seems to be a compulsion to measure everything and to take away judgement from individuals
lets just ride the trails 🙂

grading of trails – wish it had never happened
we didnt have it before so why now??
there seems to be a compulsion to measure everything and to take away judgement from individuals
lets just ride the trails

I agree about 80% with that, but the grades do act as a means of giving folk some idea of what to expect when they set out on a route, rather than having their day spoiled by ending up on a route that's too hard/easy for them. At GT it's easy to swap between routes, but that's not the case elsewhere.

That said, folk shouldn't regard the gradings as gospel. No matter what grade of trail you're on you should always be looking ahead and making snap judgements. That's one of the fun things about the sport.

And there are tons of harder places to ride than GT if that's what folk want. There's all the natural stuff too. You can get bits of natural trail that have sections equivalent to green, blue, red and black all within a few hundred yards. That keeps you alert!

Grading is very subjective. I've ridden blacks that could almost be blue and reds that are definately black.

While we have the distance vs.hard obstical problem in grading I think there will always be a lot of ambiguity.

I like the fact that things change. Change is generally good. While one bit gets easier other bits will get harder. It's a difficult job to maintain trails in precisely the right condition year on year so a bit of variablity is to be expected. It may not suit you but someone else may love it.

There's another big bit on Magic Mushroom which is probably going to cause howls of derision when it opens, because it's wide smooth and fast as all hell, and really is going to be a bit of a motorway… but it replaces a section in bad ground which was falling apart, and a big build was needed to make it durable.

Most of that bit is actually a resurfacing job, with a corner getting banked up. It'll be wide and fast initially but no doubt will get narrower and a bit rougher as the trail gets ridden. It would be a bit strange (and difficult) to repair a badly worn section so it is only half worn, after all. 🙂 Given how much height is lost on that big corner I expect that it'll pick up braking bumps quite quickly, no matter how heavily built it is.

The actually new bit of the section is the (comparatively) narrow and wiggly bit at the start of it that the Trailfairies didn't actually have much to do with. Also I think there may be a longer-term plan to replace the wide 'n' fast corner with something longer and wigglier at some point, to reduce its gradient to a more sustainable level.

I do not think that the red route at Glentress is easier than Kirroughtree's, nor Mabie's (it's been too long since I rode Dalbeattie or Newcastleton to comment about them and I haven't ridden Ae). Kirroughtree's black is more challenging on a technical level than Glentress's, though the Glentress black still seems to be an equal physical challenge – some big climbs and a surface that can be pretty punishing on hardtails.

I do wonder whether some people when they compare how difficult Glentress used to be to how they find it now are forgetting that they've now got several years of experience extra under their belts. I'm certain I'm faster on the red than I used to be but that's because I know it so well, not because it's been dumbed down.

"some big climbs and a surface that can be pretty punishing on hardtails"- here here! I took my hardtail at the weekend to do the black up to the mast and I had forgotten just how rough it is in places. Dropped back down on Ho Chi Min which was as ace as ever.

I think that Glentress has been a victim of it's own success. At the beginning the trails were much more natural but as there were not too many riders this wasn't an issue. As it became more popular the trails got worn out quickly and had to be repaired. As it's such as successful place to go, these repairs have to be done a certain way to make sure they last. As a post above says, if you go from a very worn out section of trail to one that has been recently repaired then it will seem like it has been sanitised. Give it a while and it will get harder. Or go off pists and find the natural stuff- just don't ruin it with braking bumps!

"If they are dumbing the trails down then surely it is affecting the grading? Is the red still in keeping with a red grade trail? (I've no idea as it's been so long since I was at Glentress)"

They aren't dumbing it down to the extent some people would have you believe, and it's still in keeping with pretty much every red I've seen bar Nevis Red. Which is black. One or two specific features have been changed or removed, a couple of sections redesigned to stop them wearing out etc but the overall difficulty level isn't much changed. Pie Run's probably one of the bits that people find more difficult out of hte whole route and I gather it's one of the newest bits (before my time).

No prospect at all of regrading it blue, especially considering the number of southerners I've spoken to who're surprised at how challenging it is for a red 😉 Spend a saturday morning in the forest watching other riders and see how many people are finding it too easy, it's a lot less than you'd expect. And even the ones who're finding it easy are usually having a blast going faster, going for more air or better lines, doing the optional bits etc.

The black OTOH could probably be reclassified as a red with minimal effort IMO, much like was done at Innerleithen. But that's another story.

Think ChrisL was spot on, we evolve as riders but the trails don't change in the same way. Glentress was definately a lot harder a year ago, I could barely get down the Pie Run and the black exit was unthinkably terrifying, therefore it must have got easier… Or I learned to ride 😉 OTOH, some bits of Pennel's Vennel have got harder to ride and more interesting through erosion.

Grades are helpful. If you were a top rider, you'd be peeved about wasting time on a green forest track. If you're not so skilled, blacks are no fun at all.

So sometimes you find it a little easier or harder than you expect from the grade in your head. So what!?

chris/northwind – IMHO GT has been dumbed down to ridiculous lengths over the past few years. It has never been very technical, none of the 7 stanes are!
I'll give you a couple of small examples all in a small area of the forest –
there was nothing difficult about the pie run but the need was felt for filling in the only root section that required a little thought to get through cleanly in the wet.
The entrance to the worm hole was **** around with to create a crappy one line wonder with less flow
Pretty much all the roots on that trail with the log pile were filled in not just the ones near the logpile.
whatever the trail after spooky wood's called is absolutely shite now that it is just a motorway.
I could go on and on.. but I don't know the names of all the sections, I did however used to know almost all the roots and nice natural kickers all over GT, sadly a lot don't even exist now.

It's still enjoyable, but nowhere near as much as it was a few years back.. and it's nothing to do with progressing as a rider (as I get older I am regressing in that department)

"whatever the trail after spooky wood's called is absolutely shite now that it is just a motorway."

Eh? Super G just a motorway? Couldn't disagree more tbh. As for Pie Run, loads of people complained about that bit, so apparently there was something difficult about it? (I could ride it btw 😉 And so could most of the volunteers who built it and then rebuilt it- before my time but they did a brilliant job, lovely bit of trail IMO)

thanks for your honesty, but Super G (now I've been reminded of it's name) used to have nice ruts and holes that you could use to pump through hop into and rail corners, the loose corners are now gone and natural flow has been replaced with bermed corners and rubbish jumps the whole thing is just lame.
was that before your time too?

I rode it before the last major resurfacing, though it's possible you're going further back than that, from what you describe. But I don't see why that would be relevant to whether or not it's a motorway now…

trail after spooky wood's called is absolutely shite now that it is just a motorway

+ what Northwind said. It's one of the most fun trail centre runs I've done. The fashion I've noticed lately is to take perfectly decent bit of twisty single-track and dump a pile of bricks and football sizes rocks every 20m. And then call it 'technical'.

Technical to me was always steep not pointless justification of 6 inches of travel both ends.

I just wish that they wouldnt smooth it out quite so much when they do resurface it.

The black is pretty safe from dumbing down – can't think of any real developments in 5, 6 years.

Interesting what ChrisL says about gaining in experience – I recall first riding the boundary trail descent years ago and thinking it was awesome. Now, in hindsight, it seems the biggest missed opportunity in the whole system. 200m of height, on a black-graded trail, given over to a pretty uninspiring run IMHO. With the relatively sparse traffic it gets, though, a complete redoing would never happen.

Speaking from the very bottom of the pile here….GT is heaven for blue route riders. I still haven't ridden anything like Electric Blue and I don't think I ever will. I love going fast, that bit of track is built for it. I can't comment on the red, but a whole world of languages went past us on the climb up to Buzzards.
Gradings. They make me want to cry. At the moment, I'm not good enough to ride a bridleway I've never seen before. I can deal with 1 foot drops, dry roots, gently rocky bits. That's it. So trail centres are where I go to be sure I can ride something without having to hike my bike for 2 hrs. Nothing wrong with bike hiking, you understand, but sometimes I just want to go as fast as my bike can possibly go, and trail centres let me do that, in places. I can't be alone, I really can't. So gradings are a source of epic confusion and frustration for me and it's proper narking me, tbh.

I rode it before the last major resurfacing, though it's possible you're going further back than that, from what you describe.

I am, it was more of a proper singletrack descent with wider corners and line choice rather than wide, smooth and dull as it is now, it was gradually changed to what it is now, the first change was just the last section from the long table top into the L/H berm. now more than half of it is motorway.

But I don't see why that would be relevant to whether or not it's a motorway now…

eh? is that's not what this thread's about? 🙄 !

tinribz – it was never technical, very little at GT is.