Judging by the numbers of posts by people whining about, well everything, and constantly asking for reassurance about whether they've made the right decision to buy cheese rather than egg mayo sandwiches have Dave'n'Gideon turned the country into imbeciles?

Those of us with longer memories will recall the Doom of Cressers, and that was before Dave'n'George turned up.

Incidentally: he changed his name when he was 13 – 25 years ago – perhaps you should update your contact list?

Would you like some more wine with that?

Those of us with longer memories will recall the Doom of Cressers, and that was before Dave'n'George turned up

why do some folk always look at the past and blame maggie?
what about blaming tony and gordo the clown

How about the banks for imprudent behaviour?

how about blaming Gordo for changing the rules – encouraging the banks to go mental?

It all went wrong when they gave women the vote

ahwiles – Member

how about blaming Gordo for changing the rules – encouraging the banks to go mental?

'cos he didn't. Bank deregulation was years before he was in government

To be fair, lots of people were useless before this government got in, but only because of Thatcher.

'cos he didn't. Bank deregulation was years before he was in government

Now now, let's be fair to Gordon – he messed up bank regulation just like everything else, and in a rare case of reality he even admitted it, albeit somewhat after the event.

I object to that statement. I've been a useless whiner for many years; I'm a self-made whiner who didn't rely on the government to turn me into one. I didn't get where I am today by being useful and not whining. My old dad used to say we shouldn't just sit around, we should get on our bikes and whine.

We had better weather under labour. And you didnt get mugged in your bed and killed every day either. Thatchers Britain!

Rio – Member
Now now, let's be fair to Gordon – he messed up bank regulation just like everything else, and in a rare case of reality he even admitted it, albeit somewhat after the event.

And if you read your own post you will find that it does indeed confirm that he didn't deregulate the banks, what he says is that with hindsight he should have regulated them more. The irony in the article is the little shite Osborne having a go about Brown failing to re-regulate what his predecessors de-regulated.

So thats cleared up then Labour/Blair/Brown didn't de-regulate the banks then.

Incidentally, the reason why they didn't re-regulate being that the Tories left us with no real industry and an export base which was basically financial services. To regulate those would have been to export that last vestige of UK plc overseas also. So what he is in fact saying is that with hindsight he should have shoved the twunts overboard anyway. A sentiment that I would not struggle to agree with personally.

So thats cleared up then Labour/Blair/Brown didn't de-regulate the banks then

Nulab spin machine won't die will it. Try this – how-gordon-brown-failed-the-banking-test

"Under Gordon Brown’s early stewardship of the Treasury, back in 1997, responsibility for banking regulation was taken from the Bank of England – its brief was reduced to setting interest rates and “maintaining financial stability” – and handed to the financial regulator, the Financial Services Authority. The result was a three-way power split, making it hard to know who has overall responsibility for UK banking. When Tory MP Michael Fallon asked who was in charge during the crisis, Bank of England governor Mervyn King replied lamely: “What do you mean by ‘in charge’?” Callum McCarthy, the head of the FSA, which did nothing to prevent Northern Rock rapidly building its high-risk mortgage business, did eventually pop up on the BBC after the Treasury had intervened, only to dismiss anxious consumers as “irrational”. Overall, as The Observer concluded, the crisis made “the City’s top policemen look like the Keystone Cops”"

DO I need to respond to that?

Just once more then Rio.

1) So thats the Financial Services industry blaming everyone else for what they did right? Obviously no responsibility on their part at all.
2) Couldn't be arsed to read it thoroughly, but it doesn't seem to say he de-regulated the Banks, more that he didn't re-regulate, which is what I said in my previous reply.

Next.

It says basically that he removed any effective regulatory framework. Not sure that it can be put any more simply or clearly than that.

rio – simply wrong. Go read up on "the big bang" in financial services.

I think I know enough about the "big bang", which may or may not have been a good thing depending on your political views. But that doesn't get away from the fact that the so-called tripartite "no-one's responsible" regulation system introduced by Brown didn't work.

I do find it simply asonishing that anyone can blame posts on a forum on a the government, Tory or otherwise. Some people REALLY WILL try to twist ANYTHING into politics to try and make some lame point or another. Get over yourself FFS.

Judging by the numbers of posts by people whining about, well everything,

This has been the norm for awhile now, but it's definately got worse over the last 12 months, proper miserable bunch of bastards the lot of you.

Judging by the numbers of posts by people whining about, well everything, and constantly asking for reassurance about whether they've made the right decision to buy cheese rather than egg mayo sandwiches have Dave'n'Gideon turned the country into imbeciles

Are you not winging then ?

No, I believe that I'm just smugly self satisfied.

Incidentally: he changed his name when he was 13 – 25 years ago – perhaps you should update your contact list?

Fair point there, as if we're gonna use Gideon, then we've also got to remember our ex-pm's real name

. But that doesn't get away from the fact that the so-called tripartite "no-one's responsible" regulation system introduced by Brown didn't work.

So in fact what you are saying is what I am saying, which is not that he deregulated the banks, merely that his re-regualtion was ineffective, which if I'm not much mistaken see us agreeing and takes us right back to here :-

And if you read your own post you will find that it does indeed confirm that he didn't deregulate the banks, what he says is that with hindsight he should have regulated them more. The irony in the article is the little shite Osborne having a go about Brown failing to re-regulate what his predecessors de-regulated.

So thats cleared up then Labour/Blair/Brown didn't de-regulate the banks then.

Incidentally, the reason why they didn't re-regulate being that the Tories left us with no real industry and an export base which was basically financial services. To regulate those would have been to export that last vestige of UK plc overseas also. So what he is in fact saying is that with hindsight he should have shoved the twunts overboard anyway. A sentiment that I would not struggle to agree with personally.

So may we now move onwards and upwards past that one semantic point??

the Tories left us with no real industry and an export base which was basically financial services.

Shame thats complete and utter bollocks isnt it!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/22/manufacturing_figures/

I rather thought the main financial industry was in money laundering, after all isn't the UK on a watch list for it?

Shame thats complete and utter bollocks isnt it!

Looking forward to you selling that one to the people, much like myself who trained as engineers etc etc etc only to have the whole lot blown away in the 80's Zulu.

May I just list the world leading manufacturing companies in my area that have gone during and as a result of that period ?

Ransome and Rapier
Bull Motors
Rola Celestion
Cranes
Compair Reavel
Colchester Lathes

and thats just to name the biggest, there are literally dozens more.

markets change, industry changes, manufacturing becomes more efficient and in the process employs less people, however the total value of the manufacturing industry has increased (revenues per member of headcount go up)

Innovate or die – look at the British Aero engine industry, the future has for a long time been high value complex item manufacturing – Look at the other manufacturing companies that have appeared making niche products, Hope for example

Oh right, it was their own fault… Sorry didn't understand that. Useless bastards….

No, its just that you take the fact that a company has gone to the wall as evidence of a terminal decline, even though the actual figures say that manufacturing continues to be strong (on both a total production and GDP basis)

I don't think that there are many companies still making spinning jennies and traction engines, does that prove that manufacturing is in decline too, or indicate that the market changed?

No no, you got me. So now I understand why pretty much all of the manufacturing companies in what was previously a mainly engineering based economy have gone to the wall while the docks down the road have grown beyond all recognition due to the volume of imports is all down to those enginners having a lack of foresight and innovation. Gotcha.

Fair enough

So may we now move onwards and upwards past that one semantic point??

BB I expect we have to agree to disagree on that. To me, removing the regulator is deregulation, to you it is apparently not.

Berm bandit

Two words here

i) Value
ii) Volume

To use your own words:-

so-called tripartite "no-one's responsible" regulation system introduced by Brown didn't work.

As stated the fact that the regualtion that he imposed was not good enough in hindsight is not at issue. He did not however de-regulate the banks.

people have been useless whiners for a long time now. mad thatch got into power because people were too lazy to think for themselves so she did it for them hateandfear fearandhate and that generated a culture of it not being my fault it's all the fault of society/my genes/health and safety gone mad still we can always have a war but if we wer're going to shoot some innocent passers by, let's not do it on our doorstep this time, eh? bl00dy public sector bleeding us dry and doing nothing more than policing the streets, educating our children and nursing our sick.

Zulu: You won't be wanting to hear my two words on the subject, so park it there will you?

from that Register, Index of Production, link of zulu-11:

"the Index isn't measuring how much we make: it's measuring the value of what we make"

they're not all that clear on whether the figures are corrected for inflation – anyone know ?

He did not however de-regulate the banks

Semantics. Surprisingly good marxist description of events; I guess they're less worried than some about following some party line:

He therefore called for ‘light touch regulation,’ in other words less regulation on the City and finance capital. Before his Mansion House audience in 2007, he called for, "a risk-based regulatory approach". It was an old theme. In the same hall three years before, he pledged that "in budget after budget I want us to do even more to encourage the risk takers" (2004). This is the approach that got us in the present pickle.

Nothing to do with the major deregulation of the "big bang" then? Gordon saying he would continue with the same sort of regime as was in place when he took office is the blame not the major change in regulation and attitude 10 years before?

TeeeJ, Osborne is a "wee shite" but Brown was chancellor for an awful long time. If he'd wanted a proper change he could have had a go at it, rather than fanny around. (I doubt you need to wonder why he didn't ?)