Just venting steam here, I don’t really expect anything useful to come of this.

I come from an extremely technical (IT) background. I’m still very technical despite advancing my way up the management chain to a board level report. I’ve done this by working seriously hard, crazy hours, lots of personal sacrifice. I have had to fight my technical background as it is very clear it is seen as a bad thing at this level. Nowadays I find the best approach is to play dumb with technical stuff despite the clear and obvious solution flashing like a red light in my head. All the other stuff that’s necessary for someone of this level I’m fine with. Commercial awareness, business drivers, strategic planning, all dead easy.

I’m not a political creature though and it shows. My peers, without exception are all of a strong managerial background and are very slick at currying political favour, aligning themselves with glory work items, riding on the back of other people’s success. I actually feel a bit stupid when we’re together and they’re talking about manipulating things, I certainly feel very isolated. I often get a desire to clam up and keep away from them all when I see how their minds work but make an effort because not doing so would be career suicide.

Then we all finish the all day meeting we’re in, they get in their brand new BMW’s and Jags and go home early while I get in my tatty old Honda Accord and go back to work to put another 8 hours in.

Clearly I’m doing things wrong and it’s not difficult to see what I need to do but I struggle with it. It depresses me coming into work knowing I’m going to have to spend another day desperately trying to understand the next machiavelian ploy being launched at me when all I really want to do is deliver the things I’m paid to do. I’m not interested in power struggles and arse kissing, I just want to do a good job, that’s how a career should progress.

So, by my very nature am I limiting my progression? I’ve got ambitions, but I think without changing the very person I am, I’m banging my head on a ceiling.

Senior employee experiences welcomed here, particularly from those who have been through a similar process.

(One obvious answer is since I’m asking on STW, I’m not destined for greatness – that’s a criticism I accept)

And this all comes from a series of very frustrating issues at work where I’ve been screwed good and proper because other people are smarter at stroking up the right people than I am. I’ve ended up doing a lot of hard work and it’s made other people look very good.

Office Politics = Strategy

You need to work on your strategic skills.

Is punching someone in the face not an option.

I think you might need a career rethink, if you don’t want to be like these people. Start rowing or get out of the boat, type thing. Some organisations foster this kind of thing, divide and conquer and keep tham fighting to get good results. It usually comes from the top. Look for jobs in other companies with a nicer culture that suits you more ?

Do you feel their machinations are advancing the interests of the company, or just advancing their own interests?

Is punching someone in the face not an option.

+1000,000
Sometimes the mere threat of physical violence will be enough. These schemers are cowards by their nature.

You need to speak directly to your CEO. It sounds like you are bottling it up and he’s probably not a mind reader. Try to do this chat in a positive way but also it sounds like you need to stand up for yourself a bit more a the board meetings.

Right, and please don’t take this personally…as I’m only going on reading your responses to various threads on STW – and only in the chat forum generally. I would say that from reading them, you’re not exactly the most diplomatic person in the world. Now, that’s all very well, I know and have time for plenty of people who aren’t either. But in the corporate world, I often find that alongside all the technical skills needed, you really do need some soft skills – I think the CV words would be “interpersonal skills”. I think it’s an often perceived thing that “geeks” aren’t often blessed with diplomatic skills – whether that’s true or not, I don’t know, but stereotypes come from somewhere, right?

So, either you try to brush up on these skills, but it sounds like you might be a little too late for that in your present role. Or you accept that you’re not destined for greatness. Or you just **** off from this lot and go and do something for yourself – be master of your own destiny. That’s what I did. It’ll never make me a millionaire, but I love what I do and that today, I chose to have a lie-in and I’ll get started when the traffic dies down.

Please don’t take my comment personally (well, you can, but don’t be angry, I am trying to be helpful 🙂 )

Change company.

Jack it all in and cycle round the world.

These guys are definately focused on their own personal objectives. I do not see a lot of company focus in their actions. They’ll do it when they know it improves their standing but it’s usually coincidental.

You could have a point hels, but the closer I get to the top, the more I want to change the whole system and the more I feel I could do. As my influence increases, the closer this objective feels. Obviously that’s a political ambition right there, but perhaps one that the manager of a charity shop would come up with.

Pretty much on the money dd, and no offence taken.

It’s precisely why I left plc life in 97 and set up on my own. 80/20 rule kicked in 80% of time spent on company politics or trying to work out who was doing what to whom and why, and 20% doing the job I enjoyed.

If I were in your position I would begin to look around, speak to some headhunter companies/consultants – proper ones not just recruitment companies. You seem to be a senior player and they will be better placed to offer you vacancies that are suitable.

It is worth speaking to whoever is most senior in your organisation, but be sure you have a fall back if the conversation does not go as you may wish.

Good luck.

Jack it all in. Work in a bikeshop for a little over minimum wage selling thousands of pounds worth of kit for your boss. Then at night go home and smoke weed. Repeat this until you are 50. 😆

seems that all places are like this, whether it be McDonalds or Goldman Sachs. Where I work, half the team have given up and don’t give a crap, whereas the other half (including me) try to push themselves and progress. unfortunately the management have single out one person who gets first dibs at learning all the new stuff and getting sent overseas, said person has latched onto a new person and is filtering stuff to them constantly, leaving the likes of me to do all the grunt work while they swan around enjoying the benefits.

I’m just looking round for another job because th management just don’t care……they will however when their team consists of these two people.

Sounds like favouritism. Its not based on ability but partly looks/appeal to a person.

You spend all day in meetings then do eight hours work and think you are good enough to be at the ‘top’ – surely you need to learn to delegate and manage your ‘team’ better so that when you come out your all day meeting, you can bask in the glory of the great things your people have done. It is quite possible to both get the ‘brownie points’ and acknowledge the contribution of the guy who did the work.

If you really don’t want to give up getting your hands dirty with the technology then either find a way to get back to that as the main job (while in many places the route to riches is through the management train, many smart employers realise that really good technical people are essential, and will pay top £ for people who do great jobs – indeed it is often a mistake to promote those people as managers) OR go and work somewhere else where the balance is right; e.g. in smaller organisation the top IT guy probably still has to do some ‘real work’ and spends less time in seemingly pointless meetings.

Let me go alittle leftfield for you here.

Remember Band of Brothers? The attack on Foy? Remember when Winters was about to run forward to take control of the faltering charge (where loads of men where needlessly suffering, sweating and dying for the war?) and Colonel Sink told him to stop? He delegated.

The management stand back, the workers go forth and sweat hard 😉

You seem to have a lot of passion about this Mark 😉

What is greatness? It sounds to me that you’ve exchanged your soul for a nice salary. There’s nothing great about that.

If you enjoy the technical stuff, why not stick with it?

I’ve had the delegation thing from my boss too. All my team work ridiculous hours, we’re completely overloaded. Clearly that’s my fault as well.

how about suggesting a “back to the shop floor” programme for people at your level to round out their experience of the company, one day a week maybe.

a skills matrix showing which area’s of the company people have direct experience of & identify the areas they are lacking in.

could be good for broadening peoples horizons and understanding, all that type of balls that bosses love.

could also be good for getting a few people out of their depth and showing them up to be throbbers to the maximum number of people possible.

Your experience happens quite a lot from things I’ve read over the years, whilst you have my sympathy at the end of the day you just have to accept it and play the game or move on and hopefully end up somewhere with a different culture. A lot of the problem is the slick sales and marketing guys talking themselves into positions way above where they should be and the only way they get away with it is to foster all the political BS.

What tech background did you have? If it was server/networking stuff (rather than coding) then I’d look to move into a senior position at a Cloud service provider if I were you. They need business savvy people but the infrastructure stuff is complex enough that having a tech background should be a big help.

Get another job.

All my team work ridiculous hours

Get a different job. In EVERY industry there are ‘cultures’ of work hard, play hard. Where you work hard and your boss saves employing more staff so that he can play hard with the pile of cash.

Not every company is like this. At the interview ASK about the culture, ASK how often people work over. If this question means you don’t get the job as the tosser ‘questions your potential commitment’- it means the company is the sort of place where you’d earn ‘X’ but in reality your hourly equivilient is s**t.

Make your staff work harder, bleed them, rinse every ounce out of them. When they complain say to them ‘I question your professionalism in the work place’.

Z11 – am liking this a lot, may suggest this in a client meeting later this week. I could see a couple of comfy execs becoming a lot less smug.

Been there. Done that.

Ask yourself this – if you and your team are all working ridiculous hours to keep up with the workload, why would anyone in senior management want to increase your level of influence?

Either learn to say “no” and stop being such a pushover, or find a technical role that you can do without having to manage other staff.

Don’t hit or threaten people. This isn’t the factories. “Car Park Now!” just doesn’t go down so well in white collar work. The political types will twist it into harassment cases against you and have you out on your ear with no references. Plotting to set up your workmates, to catch them draining the company is also not the best idea in the world either.

If you can’t carve yourself a niche where you are indispensable and later on push for a pathway/wage restructuring exercise based on what you can do that others can’t then possibly looking for another job is appropriate.

Have you seen Devil’s Advocate?

Stick by your own values.

Many thanks for all the responses guys. One thing, I want to stay here at least another 18 months so leaving isn’t an option short term. To be honest, politicial stuff aside I really like it here. I like the work, I like what we do as a business, I like the site, I like the autonomy I get in my role, the money is OK, the commute is fantastic and I really want to keep my current job title for a long enough period for my CV if I do choose to leave.

I obviously just need to get better at stuff which will no doubt progress my career but I’ll just have to hate myself that little bit more.

oh, and go contracting.

Do work, get paid, go home.

No politics, team briefings, personal appraisals, buying in to a new logo behind reception, away days or any of that dross.

if you want to stay techie and skip the politics go contracting, more money, less ‘management/company’ stuff etc

do you (and sorry if this goes down the wrong way or if it’s not the case, however I’m asking as so,so many people don’t esp in IT[personal experience and personal learning]) understand basic management maths.
Management Maths
5 person team, manager kills himeslf to get deliveries in on time etc, working at 140% effort (*and will probably burn out after a while with possible quality/team issues), this will probably result in a less than 500% effective team as the rest of the team are probably badly managed etc etc and down to 80% effective. Alternatively manager manages really well, he’s down to 90% as doing management, team however are at 100%. Which is better for the team and the company (and the manager). I truly have worked for people who were too busy to delegate.

If you can delegate you will have more time to be political.

(*I went contracting)

These guys are definately focused on their own personal objectives. I do not see a lot of company focus in their actions. They’ll do it when they know it improves their standing but it’s usually coincidental.

This is the key. At a certain level, and in organisations of a certain ‘maturity’, advancement, and indeed just treading water i.e. keeping your job in tough times, means that the focus shifts from delivering strategic objectives for the company’s benefit, to meeting targets for appraisals.
Putting in all the hours in the world, exceeding budgets and delivering stuff left right and centre will not help you unless you also manage to meet the more important personal targets in your personal objectives. Typically these will include bullying your staff into delivering high scores for you in staff satisfaction surveys, ensuring that regular newsletters are published using the correct font and that you participate fully in management away days.

You’re on a hiding to nothing trying to change the system- you’re on the fringes of a corporate Bullingdon club- either go contracting or find a smaller or newer company to work for.

Personally,

I’ve always subscribed to Joshua’s sage advice: “The only winning move is not to play.”

Aside from the fact that I, like you, simply can’t be ringed with office politics and silly buggers, I know full well that if I did try to play them at their own game then I’d lose cos they’d be better at it. I appear to lack the gene which turns people into self-serving pricks who’d eat their own young if the price was right, which is why I never went into Sales, Marketing or Middle Management.

Instead I choose to play to my strengths, trying to be good at my job and to hell with what everyone else is doing to each other. Whether that’s always been the best thing to do from a career progression point of view is debatable, but it sure as hell makes work life considerably less stressful.

samuri are you the very same person who used to have a collumn in STW mag many years back?

If so, I enjoyed collumn back then, have you thought about writing more?

There are many such people in organisation because they are trying to hand on to their dear jobs because they have no other skills to offer. Even if they have those skills are not specialist skills or needed skills. Because of this they are very insecure and will try every Machiavellian tricks to remain in the job or get promoted. The best way to get promoted is by stepping on others or discrediting others.

They cannot push you around because they need you due to your specialist skills so trying to enlist you into their group to strengthen their power base.

At my place of work I have several of these maggots lurking around by constantly creating headache for others due to their own insecurity and laziness …

Any nice girls in the office? You could always have office sex effectively whilst your boss is paying you.

Thanks ski, yes that was me. I just dried up to be honest. Producing something new regularly is really hard especially when it’s usually an abstract perception on something. The columnists who can produce quality stuff over and over again have my utmost respect.

Plenty of nice girls, especially over in property services for some reason. Trouble is, I met Mrs samuri in the office so she knows my MO. 😉

The thing is youre working in your word long hours and putting in extra time above what others do, you drive a honda, they have Bmw,s something is wrong, obviously you may be a bit upset as you havent got a bmw, for some reason, or your face just doesnt fit in the company,and basicly youre seen as the tea lad,somebody who is there and does whats asked of him,and usually just ignored as being non core, and when and if you leave youll soon be forgotten as someone else will jump into the space you left.

Thats life in some companies, if you dont like it ,move to a better one or start youre own.

One thing is for sure as each day you relaise what is happening the more angry you become,then you loose the plot, i did,and left.