Its really simple – if you don't want to get caught speeding then don't speed. If you like to speed then when you get caught don't bleat about it.

As for the A9 – if you cannot tell when it goes from dual carriageway to single then you shouldn't be driving. The presence or absence of a central reservation , the large signs that are in place 1/4 mile before the end of the dual and again at the end of it and the speed limit signs are a clue.

Speed if you want and it is safe to do so – I often do – but if you get caught – especially if your observation is lacking then do not bleat about it.

Crap, i am agreeing with TJ on this one!!

Speed if you want to and when it is safe to do so, get caught – don't whinge. Its a choice.

The biggest problem with the A9 between Perth and Inverness is the road.

It was designed as a dual road which was not build other than in sections.
Hense there are all these sweeping curves which make overtaking safely difficult. It changes from dual to single to three lane.

Due to the hills / distance etc there are slow vehicles, some very slow, people get fustrated. So there are wacky races on the dual sections.

If you compare it with the journey between Perth and Stirling. Dual all the way, you can sit at 65mph, 75 mph etc and barring a holdup you make the same time every journey. (n.b. not the best example as there are some horrific junctions like Aucterarder.)

I must be getting old as dropping my speed on my commute between Dunblane and Dundee to mostly 65mph it only takes 5 mins longer for a 50 mile journey with no hold ups and a steady speed.

best of a bad bunch though the a9 …. ive been misfortunate enough to travel the a96 several times in the last couple months ….thats an awful road !

I work collegue of mine was killed on the A9 a couple of years ago and two others seriously hurt, he had only been driving a few weeks – head on collision with an idiot that was booting it along trying to overtake a lorry before the end of the dual carrageway and failed to pull back across in time
I think that proves the case for speed camera vans at the point in question

Because he'd have been OK in a head on with somebody only doing 60mph?

Because he'd have been OK in a head on with somebody only doing 60mph?

no obviously not you daft insensitive c***
but if the presence of a camera slowws people down and makes them pay more attention….

Slower speeds give more time to brake and react if things do go wrong

Oh sorry – hadn't realised that mentioning somebody you know got killed allowed you to make a controversial point which nobody was allowed to argue with. Maybe if it's such a sensitive issue for you you shouldn't mention it on threads like this.

but if the presence of a camera slowws people down and makes them pay more attention….

To 60mph, and pay more attention to the camera van?

aracer – slower speeds allow more time to take avoiding action – that you cannot deny. Higher speeds mean any crash is more dangerous

slower speeds allow more time to take avoiding action – that you cannot deny.

Check my posts – I don't think I was! Of course higher speeds mean you spend less time on the opposite side of the road (or in the outside lane of the DC) overtaking – that's something you can't deny. Meanwhile the over-emphasis on speed as the most important factor in road safety means other far more important factors don't get the attention they should – when was the last time you saw a "overtaking kills, kill your overtaking urges" advert?

The biggest problem with the A9 between Perth and Inverness is the road.

All the more reason to take it easy then.

When I'm dictator there'll be speed cameras every 100 yards. Don't f*cking speed, it's really easy. Maybe you folk that can't keep the speed down need a bit more driver training or something?

while i agree with your statement re overtaking kills

the point is the boy wouldnt have bothered trying to over take had he only been doing 60ph as what ever he was oveertaking was likely doing 60mph ….

thus he wouldnt have crashed into the other boy

ever driven the a9 – it really is a crazy dangerous road ! ive seen some crazy shit on that road including that three cars can fit down the single carridge way without flinching – i was in the right lane on my own side and the car coming the other way being overtaken sped up – the car overtaking had no where to go as the **** behind had closed the gap – shit my self so i did

the point is the boy wouldnt have bothered trying to over take had he only been doing 60ph as what ever he was oveertaking was likely doing 60mph ….

How on earth do you know?

I can trump your story – I had to put 2 wheels of my car onto a grass verge to get past a car overtaking coming the other way and avoid a head on (driving on the road to Skye North of Fort Bill). The thing is I don't think any of the cars involved was speeding.

The thing is I don't think any of the cars involved was speeding.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that you won't have an accident if you're not speeding. The point that we are trying to make is that when you're going faster, accidents are worse or certain kinds of accident are more likely.

In your case for instance if you'd been going faster you may not have been able to successfully avoid the other car.

The moral of this story, is DO NOT GO TO SCOTLAND, everyone up there clearly drives like a total psycho and you will die!

Getting back to the OP, it wasn't an average camera, just a normal speed camera.

I'm very firmly in the 'if you don't want to get done for speeding, don't speed camp', anyone who can't tell they've gone from a dual carriageway to a single carriageway road should have their license revoked, and shouldn't be allowed to use normal paper incase they poke their eye out on the corners.

no obviously not you daft insensitive c***

Is far too strong, I feel aracer did make a reasonable point, although I agree more with 'he wouldn't have bothered to overtake if there was a speed camera van there' perspective.

Just my £0.02

Serves the idiots right. 50mph for 10mins of your journey. Whats the problem? We all see people sailing past and I often think 'do they know something that everyone else doesnt?'

Hahaha FAIL. Idiots.

Its the people who sit in the middle and outside lanes at 48mph who are also idiots. KEEP LEFT!!!!!!!!!!!

hainey- Ive noticed that more and more now on unrestricted motorways. 65 in the fast lane holding everyone up. Idiots. I really cant understand that thinking.

I'm just talking about through the roadworks. People assume that because they are in roadworks its impossible for them to change lanes. 😯

I did think it was immaterial what lane you were in through roadworks but then I realised I was stopping the speeders from deflowering their licences so immediately pull out of the way 😆

The moral of this story, is DO NOT GO TO SCOTLAND, everyone up there clearly drives like a total psycho and you will die!

Actually I tend to notice that the farther south I get the faster people drive on motorways. In Scotland and North England it's pretty common to see the traffic tootling along at around 60-65. But as you get south the average speed seems to head steadily towards 90.

I suppose there are so many motorways in the south that people just get used to driving faster and faster.

Actually I tend to notice that the farther south I get the faster people drive on motorways

Agreed, recently moved from darn sarfff to ooop north and can say that I have noticed a big difference.

Aye- M25 is a lesson for any nervous drivers. At times its almost BTCC with close lane changes and undertaking.

on my odd forays down south i observe the same on the motorways, that drivers tend to drive faster and also much closer to the vehicle in front of them. This is not all the vehicles. What amuses me most is cars that come speeding past when i'm going 65-70 that you then catch up with when there is a snarl in the traffic further down the road. I tend to drive within the speed limit, it leads to no worries about speeding fines, better fuel economy and a more relaxed drive. I would be very very worried however if i failed to notice the road going from dual to single carriageway whatever the circumstances.

hainey- Ive noticed that more and more now on unrestricted motorways. 65 in the fast lane holding everyone up. Idiots. I really cant understand that thinking.

I think a lot of people think they are too good for the inside lane.

karnali the day I say the words 'speed limits are not targets to aim for' I will top myself. Rather that than become a pompous oaf in the IAM.

I think a lot of people think they are too good for the inside lane.

Yes, on the M4 you see people cramming themselves into the outside lane 6 ft apart when the other two have plenty of space, and yet all the traffic is moving at the same speed anyway. Morons.

I hate the law! Just get some fake plates if you've got the balls, if not speed and get done!

I hate the law! Just get some fake plates if you've got the balls, if not speed and get done!

I thought half term had finished?

Getting back to the OP, it wasn't an average camera, just a normal speed camera.

Correct. Had not been down that way for a while since daughter mover to the other end of Carlisle, remember seeing it being installed and the ave speed ones removed.

Would be interested to know how much Dumfries safety camers rake in? Probably make a fortune on the M74 @ Lockerbie sitting on the flyovers which are all mostly on a bend and the A75.
A75 is getting slow now due to lorries sitting @ 40mph so frustraion builds up and on all the straight bits where the camera vans sit become F1 tracks/whacky race venues!!!!

Have to drive past the M6 speed cameras every day upto 4 times a day. No porblem tbh. It says 50mph as you enter it. It states about 5,500 people caught in big letters and the cameras are bright yellow. With all that in place, you really do have to be simple to get caught. People still go blaring past me.

Whats the big deal. It states a speed limit and if you exceed it you get points & fine. I would quadruple the fine if i was in charge. You really have absolutely no excuses considering all the warnings in place.

Oh and the A75 is a bit of a pian Trekster. I have done it 8 times this week. TBH i have come to the conclusion its not worth trying to pass people. Even idiots that go hell for leather to get past people only ever end up a few hundred yards ahead on the entire carlisle to dumfries journey

It says 50mph as you enter it. It states about 5,500 people caught in big letters and the cameras are bright yellow. With all that in place, you really do have to be simple to get caught

Seriously? Then that really worries me that people dont have any awareness of their environment when they are driving.

Idiots.

Yep, it really is that well signed.

I thought half term had finished?
Your point is Hora?

I agree the people getting caught are idiots if it's a well signed visible fixed camera (assuming of course it's not a forward facing fixed camera like the ones on the A14 – in which case you've been done before you see the camera). It's still revenue generation not a safety thing, but they deserve to get done for having that poor observation.

"The moral of this story, is DO NOT GO TO SCOTLAND, everyone up there clearly drives like a total psycho and you will die!"
Actually I tend to notice that the farther south I get the faster people drive on motorways.

Graham – you still appear to be missing the point that you can drive fast (especially on a motorway) without being a total psycho, but you can drive like a total psycho within the speed limit. The point you're replying to was after all partly a response to my story where I reckon the idiot probably wasn't breaking the speed limit.

aracer – it is not about revenue generation – that is a myth. NO profits are made. You may not agree with speed cameras – but on the A9 they are not too frequent and its a road with lots of speeding and regular deaths.

NO profits are made.

You mean that camera cost £350k to install and run? 😯

You may not agree with speed cameras – but on the A9 they are not too frequent and its a road with lots of speeding and regular deaths.

Surprisingly enough I'm not totally anti – quite in favour of them in appropriate urban 30 limits – it's just that many protect inappropriate speed limits and they're not the road safety panacea they're made out to be.

Are the speeding and deaths on the A9 linked, or do they nab lots of people driving safely above the limit, whilst the ones killing themselves and others in head ons would have done so whether or not they were within the limit?

The ones on the A9 are at known accident black spots. These accidents are typically caused by folk overtaking when visibility is limited or at the end of a dual-carriageway section when you get a last-second lunge along the hatchings.

No – I mean all the fine are ploughed back into the cameras – they are actually quite expensive to run, analyse the pics, chase people for proescution, court time and so on.