Leisure Lakes demo day: 26 vs 27.5 vs 29 (non-flaming content ;) )

So, I went up to Cannock this weekend for the Leisure Lakes demo day with a view to trying out a bunch of different bikes (and pick up a secondhand M9 at the same time 😀 ). I was quite surprised by how I found the ride, and thought it might be interesting to share. My main intention going into this was to have a look at trail bikes a bit smaller than my current Tracer 2, to try and reduce the number of bikes taking up house space. I also wanted to have a go on different wheel sizes – all my bikes have 26″ wheels, so I wanted to see if I was missing out on anything…

Disclaimer: views are all my own, no offence is implied to anyone regardless of your biking orientation 😉

Leisure Lakes had a good setup going on; loads of manufacturers with demo bikes (Santa Cruz, Whyte, Trek, Cube, Yeti, Lapierre, GT, Intense, Cannondale, Scott, Orange, Specialized) plus a few other bike-related companies. The test loop was about 20 mins long, and included a couple of really nice descents and then a horrible stupid climb home again.

My bike
First up was my bike: a normal-wheeled Intense Tracer 2 (medium), with Fox suspension front and rear plus 1×9 X0 gearing and a KS Lev.

Obviously since it’s my bike it was great 😉 – nice and fast on the way down, but a little bit of kick over the jumps – maybe need to slow the rebound down a touch. I did run out of gears on the way back up though, and it’s not a light bike. Oh and 2 minutes from home my rear wheel ate my mech – bugger!

Santa Cruz Bronson

I tested the medium, build with Pikes and a 1×11 XX1 drivetrain. First thought was it’s a bit cramped – maybe should have tried the L. Pikes felt fine, pretty much the same as the Floats (36 RC2s) on my Tracer. XX1 was lovely – very nice to have the bailout gears at the top of the block.
The big thing for me that it was nice on the downhills, but not noticeably better than my Tracer. I was expecting to be able to feel at least a little difference from the wheel size, but nope! Nice bike though, but for the cost of upgrading (frame, forks, wheels) I’m not sure I’d bother.

Santa Cruz 5010

I got the large this time, built with Float 34s and XX1. Sizing was much better in the large, although maybe a touch stretched in the TT.

First obviously noticeable thing was in the first corner – the BB on this is LOW. I caught pedals 4-5 times on the way round the loop – not a huge problem, but I’d probably fit 165mm cranks if I was buying this.

The Floats were definitely not as good as the Pikes on the Bronson – mostly noticeable on the way down though, coming back up they were fine. The rear was surprisingly harsh compared to the Bronson – certainly more than I was expecting given it’s only got 1″ less travel. Maybe the shock tune was a bit off for me. Again, a good bike – but not significantly better than my Tracer.

Intense Carbine 27.5

Given the last two bikes, I wasn’t expecting a world-changing experience here, but I kind of got one. The build on this bike was very different to the first two – triple chainset, Revelation forks, no dropper post, <700mm bars. And it was dreadful! The front end felt horrible on the way down, really difficult to keep confidence in the corners and rougher sections with this build.

I tried to focus on the frame as much as possible – the rear felt controlled on the rougher bits, and felt comfortable in the air. The problem was I kept coming back to the steering and front end stability, and it just wasn’t there. I’d love to try this with a XX1 / Pike / 750mm bar setup to see what it could really do.

Intense Carbine 29

Given the number of bikes at the demo and that I’d never ridden a 29er, I wanted to confirm my suspicions that “I’m not tall enough for a 29er, they’re some kind of weirdo niche wheel size” 😉 So a 29er carbon version of my current bike seemed like a good starting point! Thankfully this had a solid build kit – back to Pikes and XX1 – so I could concentrate on the bike properly.

First corner in and I was stunned. Every bike I’d ridden so far I’d been able to just point round and pedal out. With the Carbine I had to really jump on the brakes on the way into the corner – it’s SO fast over rough stuff. That was the same story all the way down – this bike is incredible. The only minor niggle I had was nearly getting kicked off over a jump – as it turns out some pillock had wound the rebound all the way off the rear shock. A second run down with the rebound in the middle and the bike felt great in the air – nice and controlled and easy to handle.

I really cannot overstate how good this bike is. Switchbacks were a little cumbersome, but with the riding I do I rarely encounter any – so it’s a worthwhile compromise. I’d like to get a full day’s riding on a test bike and maybe hit some proper jumps, but the 30 minutes I spent on the Carbine were enough to convince me it’d probably be a worthwhile upgrade over my 26er.

Intense Spider 29 Comp

Last bike for the day and my legs were feeling it! Thankfully this had a decent build kit as well, so my last run was a good one. Just like the Carbine 29, the big wheels made this bike very fast. It gave a little away on the way down to the Carbine, but not a huge amount. Still felt nice and composed in the air and really rapid!

On the flats and the way back up it was marginally quicker than the Carbine 29. I don’t think I could choose between the two for an all-day bike – the Carbine only weighs 1/3 of a pound more, and the descents are the fun bit – so it might be worth the small compromise on the way up…

What I missed
Sadly I ran out of time (and legs) by the end of the day. I really wanted to try a Yeti and the Specialized Stumpy / Enduro Evos, but didn’t get the chance. It might also be worth pointing out here that Specialized didn’t have any 26ers in their demo fleet – just 29ers.

TL;DR: 650b doesn’t make a difference, 29ers are great 😯

I like that review 😀

What he said. ^ 🙂

Interesting observations, thanks.

yeah good write up, the 29 Spider and Carbine look near the same to me, what’s the difference, just a bit of travel? 1/3 lb is not material.

Good review. I’ve come to similar conclusions.

No wonder you took so long on your test rides, taking all those pic’s weren’t you.

Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed review and for the pictures. Obviously one shouldn’t give too much weight to the views of one rider, but I still enjoy reading these test reports. It’s particularly interesting when the conclusions don’t match your preconceptions.

@op try a trailsy 29er HT too, you may even decide it’s not worth dragging around the rear boing, depending on where/how you ride. Anyway it would be a worthwhile comparison. I had a Whyte T129 but decided I didn’t really need the boing and I prefer the shorter chainstays of my HT, so sold it.

Interesting reviews. Like the look of all the Intense bikes you tried, very nice.

Many thanks for a truly independent review. Great to see you loved the carbine 29, I ordered one last week, and can’t wait to get it.

re the SCs sizing, how tall are you, and do you have an odd sized torso or gibbon arms?

Thanks for the feedback all 🙂 I tried to be as objective as possible (even towards the clown wheels) and I was genuinely surprised. I really expected to love the Bronson / 5010, but the Carbine 29er blew me away.

In terms of sizing – I’m 5’10”, with long arms / short torso for my height. I ride a medium Intense at the moment, which has a 23.5″ top tube – the SC frame sizes have 23″ for the medium and 24″ for the large, but I could definitely feel that half an inch. Climbing on the medium SC felt a little cramped, the large SC felt much better but was ever so slightly stretched for my liking.

Re: Spider vs Carbine, the difference is 5.5lb vs 5.8lb (according to Intense’s website), and 4.5/5″ vs 5/5.5″. Both the ones I rode were set up in the longer travel modes, so 5″ against 5.5″. Not much in it tbh!

Great little write up thanks

I’m testing the Carbine 29 this Sunday, bit worried I may like it (a lot!). BUT I’m 6ft 4 so not sure the large Carbine will be big enough and I believe that is the biggest frame they do? No xl frames?

Kind of goes against the ‘need to be tall to ride a 29’er’ philosophy.

less than 700mm bars and revs vs proper bars and pikes is gonna make any bike feel poor

and SCs seem to have very short top tubes!

Interesting set of bikes there, all have the same suspension design too

Cammer: Intense don’t do an XL – just S, M, L. You might get away with the large carbine though – definitely worth a go!

Kimbers: exactly what I thought. I was quite surprised by the build, especially given the (more XC-oriented) Spider had a single ring and wider bars.
SC are supposed to have short top tubes – but there’s only a 0.5″ difference between SC and Intense TT lengths, so you’d hopefully be able to compensate in the stem if you needed to.

In terms of suspension designs – I really like the way VPP rides, and I thought the SCs would be amazing, so made sure I got them in first. Then after the Carbine 29 I had the choice between trying something else (I’m a fan of the FSR link too, and I wanted to try the Yeti as I’ve never ridden their suspension setup) or trying the shorter-travel 29er.

I’d still like to try a newer FSR and the Yeti, if I’d been able to stay around for the Sunday I would’ve definitely had a go round the different bikes on test.

In terms of sizing – I’m 5’10”, with long arms / short torso for my height. I ride a medium Intense at the moment, which has a 23.5″ top tube – the SC frame sizes have 23″ for the medium and 24″ for the large, but I could definitely feel that half an inch. Climbing on the medium SC felt a little cramped, the large SC felt much better but was ever so slightly stretched for my liking.

Glad it’s not just me that thinks SC’s are sized oddly. I’m same height and proportions as you, always inbetween M and L on an SC whereas on every other brand, a M fits me spot on.

With the Carbine I had to really jump on the brakes on the way into the corner – it’s SO fast over rough stuff.

I went through a similar thing a few years ago to you, the “I’m not tall enough for a 29er” got banished quite rapidly. Whenever everybody asks me what the main difference is between a 26″ bike and a 29er, my immediate response is “you’ll end up using your brakes a lot more as you end up carrying a LOT more speed into and out of corners”. Good to hear someone else confirming my thoughts. The other thing is that 29ers just find traction where 26″ wheels spin up on technical climbs, as I proved time and time again at the Wentwood 50 yesterday when people otherwise fitter/faster than me got left behind on their 26″ wheeled bikes up the technical climbs (yes, they generally passed me again on the next fireroad as I’m very unfit right now).

Massively jealous of you riding all those nice bikes in a day too. Especially the Spider Comp, as that’s my dream bike! I know it’s only a 1/3lb lighter than the Carbine, but for me, a 120mm travel bike is ideal in a 29er, and any more travel up front and the bars are unmanageably high for me.

Really good review.

I’ve got a 26er fs and 29er ht. I like the fs more in many ways but the go to bike is the 29er and the traction and speed you mention pretty much sums up why.

I’m surprised that at 5’10” the “am I tall enough for a 29er” chestnut even came close to a roasting. Of course you are.

Surprised by your feelings towards the solo, maybe you prefer a bike to feel plush and flatten the trail, but I ****’ loved the Solo I rode, even though the XL was a little big for me, but certainly rideable. The Solo is an insanely fast bike, it pedals super well and has enough travel and stiffness to get you out of trouble, if anything the only thing I felt could be improved was a tough more progression from the rear shock, a simple fix with some messing around with some volume spacers and I’d like a stiffer 140mm fork like a shortened pike or Fox 34. I rode the bronson a few weeks back and felt pretty meh about it, the Solo blew me away and on a bike I’ve never ridden before to match my PB’s or get damn near to them on strava is damn impressive. I will definitely be ordering a Solo later in the year. It’s not a plough bike for sure, but then thats not what its meant to be.

A really interesting demo review, thank you.

You should try a SC Tallboy, i’m 5’10 and demo’ed one in a medium and a large. The size large was absolutely spot on with a short stem and wide bars.

I echo the SC sizing – I’m 5’10” and fitted a large Superlight 29 with wide bars/short stem.

Yep SC are indeed short bikes for size. You can go up a size but they end up pretty square. Dated sizing really, pointless amount of seat tube. They need to look at what Kona is doing.

Revelation forks, no dropper post, <700mm bars. And it was dreadful!

less than 700mm bars and revs vs proper bars and pikes is gonna make any bike feel poor

So that’s why I’m crap – thank god, I thought it was me.

Surprised by your feelings towards the solo, maybe you prefer a bike to feel plush and flatten the trail

I do – that’s why I was testing FS bikes. If I didn’t want to smooth the trail out I’d ride a hardtail 😀

As I said – the Solo was good, but not sufficiently better than my Tracer2 to warrant spending £1.5k+ changing the frame/forks/wheels over. I think the shock was definitely set up less well than the Bronson – as I said, it felt a lot harsher than the Bronson even with 5″ of travel. And it wasn’t as fast or as fun as the Carbine 29!

You should try a SC Tallboy

I’d definitely like to – if I managed to get another demo day I’d probably go Tallboy C, Carbine 29, Stumpy Evo 29, Enduro Evo 29, Yeti SB95 and see how I found them. FTR all the bikes (bar the Carbine 27.5) were runnign short stems (50-60mm) and 750mm bars.

So that’s why I’m crap – thank god, I thought it was me.

Don’t worry, you’re probably a great rider. Your bike is shit though 😉

This kind of front-end setup is very personal – another rider might well have complained that the bikes had bars that were too wide and forks that were too heavy, compared with a narrower bar and some Float 32s / Revs. For me, personally, I found the (relatively) narrow bars and less solid front end stopped the Carbine 27.5 from really shining.

Interesting reading, although looks like you stopped on the climb to have a rest to take the pics? 🙂

Busted 😳 😉

I stopped about 2 mins from the end of the loop – that’s after the main climb back, on a flat section back into the main demo area. I didn’t stop during the proper bits of climb as I wanted to see how the bikes went uphill as well!

Awesome review – thank you!

Surprised by your feelings towards the solo, maybe you prefer a bike to feel plush and flatten the trail

I do – that’s why I was testing FS bikes. If I didn’t want to smooth the trail out I’d ride a hardtail

As I said – the Solo was good, but not sufficiently better than my Tracer2 to warrant spending £1.5k+ changing the frame/forks/wheels over. I think the shock was definitely set up less well than the Bronson – as I said, it felt a lot harsher than the Bronson even with 5″ of travel. And it wasn’t as fast or as fun as the Carbine 29![/quote]

That’s fair enough, but I felt the Bronson was too plush, kinda killed the trail and felt like too much bike for a lot of places, even some of the gnarly trails I have in Mid-Wales, I just prefer to have a livelier bike like the Solo than a bike that just ploughs through everything in it’s path, more fun that way imo but still gives a comfort and control boost over a HT. Perhaps you just want a plush bike to make up for your lack of skills 😉

Great round up. If money was no object I get a carbon Intense at the drop of a hat.

Cammer, I’m 6′ 4″ and used to ride an L Tracer 29, plenty big enough. Sold it to go back to a short chainstay 29 HT, too much bike for the the riding I was doing.

Brilliant review mate.
I went there Saturday and Sunday to have a go on my first ever 27.5
Hated it! No different to a 26. Santa Cruz tallboy XL 27.5 and felt as thou I was going to go over the bars. I’m 6ft 3inches tall and the seat could of done with being able to go up another inch. Best bike for me that weekend was the specialized Camber 29. I can see why MBR gave it a 10/10.

Santa Cruz tallboy XL 27.5

The SC Tallboy is a 29er.

Sorry! Solo 27.5. I couldn’t get the front to stick and felt it wanted to slip away really easily. But perhaps that’s my riding.
Tallboy wasn’t tall enough! God knows where they get there sizing from. No XXL.

Sorry! Solo 27.5. I couldn’t get the front to stick and felt it wanted to slip away really easily. But perhaps that’s my riding.
Tallboy wasn’t tall enough! God knows where they get there sizing from. No XXL.

I’m 6ft 1 and rode the XL Solo and Tallboy, found them both a little on the large side tbh but I’m between the sizes, had the reverbs bottomed out on the seat tube on both bikes. Had no issues with the front washing out on the Solo, trails were slippy but just need a hint more weight over the front end and the grip was great.

Overall I was pretty blown away by the Solo. Coming of a Mojo HD140 that’s a smidge to small for me and has a few little niggles (it eats bearings, no ISCG tabs, no Stealth dropper routing and older 135x12mm back end) the Solo clears all those and I reckon the large with my preferred 55mm Easton Haven stem would be spot on size wise. Low BB and short chainstays felt awesome, very nimble but the extra wheelbase of the XL meant it felt very stable but it was a tad stretched out for my liking, which kind of fits with my pre-ride thoughts that a large Solo with a works components angleset would be the way forward for me at least. Shocking seeing how many bikes came with Fox 32’s, just not burly enough for the bikes they were on, certainly the Solo would benefit from a lowered, 140mm Fox 34 or a 140mm Pike.

The suspension performance felt really good, didn’t have the time to fettle it a huge amount but it felt pretty good off the bat, something I couldn’t say about the Bronson I had a few weeks earlier, which also seemed to give more feedback though the pedals under power, could be because the Bronson had an XT double chainset and the Solo was running XX1, which is perhaps better suited to the suspension kinematics, because the I felt the same on the Tallboy LTc in that I didn’t feel as much chain growth through the pedals when out of the saddle. Perhaps the only niggle I had with the Solo’s suspension performance was it didn’t feel as progressive as my custom tuned RP23 on my HD, but that’s an easy fix with some volume spacer tinkering and a cheap fix too.

Overall my initial feelings of the Bronson were a bit meh, it felt planted enough but it just felt a little dead to me and I just kept thinking I’d be pretty bummed if I’d just put a large chunk of change on one. Tallboy felt good, but not my kinda bike, I’m not fan of 29ers but there was no doubt it was a good, fast bike, just not for me.

The Solo is without doubt one of the best bikes I’ve ever ridden and the other chaps I rode with agreed. It was frighteningly fast, planted, super light and I can’t wait to place my order later in the year!

Interesting and a great read. Thanks

Mboy – I can’t remember any technical climbing on Wentwood?

I preferred the Bronson to the Solo. Didn’t feel confident in the front end which is more likely to be the fork than the frame. The guy said it would be better with a 140 revelation …not sure why they hadn’t built it with a set on?! He said it is a bit scitty but you have to ride it harder and push through that, not for me despite it being my first choice on paper.
I only test rode 650b bikes and I felt the Bronson and Carbine 275 were the best bikes closely followed by the Scott Genius.
The carbine and Bronson both use the same VPP system so for me with the Warranty on SC the Bronson has it.

The Fox 32 has no right to be any bike with over 120mm travel. I wouldn’t be surprised if Fox lightened up the 34 for 2015 and did the 36 in 650b for the 150mm plus market, bikes like the Solo need a stiff fork and the 32 just isn’t. My 150mm 26″ 32 flexs like hell, back to back on my local trails with a Pike it was all over the place!

As I’ve said I wasn’t overly impressed by the Bronson, I wanted to like it, but it felt pretty dull. Admittedly the one I tried was the Xt build with WTB wheels (which weighed a metric fuckton btw if you’re thinking of a complete build, over 800g heavier than my current 26″ wheelset) but it didn’t feel as special as I thought it would and the Solo just felt like a rocket. I’m planning on building one with a 140mm 34/Pike, works angleset, 2015 Xtr, Reverb, Easton Havoc bar/Stem and Crossmax Enduros, should be under 27lbs and the geometry will be closer to the Bronson, headangle will be close to 66.5 degrees, lower BB and shorter chainstays than the Bronson and the wheelbase should by my calculations come out a hair longer. Just have to start saving now, but I’m hoping to have it done by the Autumn.

Well written and honest. V good 🙂

Great effort

I am so close to ordering a Carbine. Been pro-crastinating on Carbine vs Nicolai Ion 15. (I know tough 🙂 )

I will decide in the next few days

Great review, thanks! Carbine 29 it is….

However, is it just me or do the forks on the 27.5 Carbine look like it’s been ridden into a wall. Surely they’re bent at the crown?

Cheers

Chris