Heart Rate question.

I’m pretty fit (at least I think I am) 73kg 49 years old. Yet can I hell as like ride in Zones 2 & 3.
As soon as I’m warmed up and going (let’s use road for this example as it’s more constant that mtb for this) I’m bang into Zone 4 and rarely leave it unless I’m hitting a hill and then it’s 5 all the way yet riding 100+K like this is no problem.
My max ever recorded heart rate is 189 (resting is 40) so I’m fairly sure my zones are set up right, never done an actual stress test to see if I can go higher.

So is my inability to ride in lower zones at a sensible/decent speed just my lack of base conditioning as I’m always riding tempo, so I should just slow down a bit and build some base or is it just the way my physiology is and I should just get used to it.

I know power and ftp are the modern preferred training methods but I’m HR only kit wise and just doing this for my own fitness and well being, the only person I need to beat is myself. TBH endurance and riding further is my biggest interest.

Cheers all.

I am the same, I think it is lack of “base conditioning”, I am going to try and spend a few months forcing myself to stick to zone 2. I did it this morning, and it was achingly slow. But in theory in the future I should be able to match my current speeds for a lot less effort. I think that 3 months should be enough to see if I am on the right path, and if so will probably keep up the same routine until march/April next year (although I am hoping to fitness improvements also relate to more fun at a lower effort).

I am a bit concerned I might not be doing my health any good how frequently I currently redline.

I am a bit concerned I might not be doing my health any good how frequently I currently redline.

Thanks for the response, I guess underlying all of this I also have the same concerns. Riding Z2 is like walking and Z3 isn’t much faster, maybe I should just accept that and ride in those more to condition myself, will power to do that is hard.

A) Do a LTHR test, you may as well be using lucky dip trying to set zones based on a guessed Max HR.
B) Who’s definition of zones are you using? Friel and British cycling for example have quite different z1-3.
C) Have you confirmed HR by taking pulse manually whilst riding? Various reasons a HRM can display the wrong number.

No-one can ride 100km in z5, there’s likely something wrong with your zones or equipment.

You probably need to do an ftp test to use to set your zones.

But what range are you using for say zone 2 out of interest? My max and resting are similar to yours and my Z2 is something like 130-141 and yes, it is hard to stay in that zone.

Regarding concern, depends on how many times you ride a week. Twice a week might be ok, 5 times a week at high intensity might be pushing it. Depends on duration and if you’re a pro athlete or not.

Thanks Andy I didn’t say I was riding 100k in zone 5 I said it’s z 5 all the way for the hills, I’m mostly in z4 with some 5 (as soon as I hit a hill).
I’m using the definition of zones built into Polar and Garmin HRM’s. I’ve multiple straps and units all give equivalent readings, I’ve ridden with garmin and polar straps at the same time to confirm this.

I’ve based my max on my recorded reading over two years of data I’ve recorded 189 many times never higher. So not technically a guess but maybe more of a guess than a test on a trainer.

Thanks

You probably need to do an ftp test to use to set your zones.

But what range are you using for say zone 2 out of interest? My max and resting are similar to yours and my Z2 is something like 130-141 and yes, it is hard to stay in that zone.

Thanks Polar and Garmin have set Z2 (within 1 beat of each other) at 113-131 which is quite different to yours, could that probably be down to my not using ftp.

So very quickly after starting riding your HR is around 162bpm? (based on your figures)

MHR = 189
RHR = 40
WHR = 149
Z4 lower bound = 82%

(WHR * .82) + 40 = 162

Not sure about polar, but standard zones in garmin are comical.

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/joe-friel-s-quick-guide-to-setting-zones/

Yeah that seems very low.

Have you raced/done a time trial recently as your avg for that would give you a rough idea of ftp?

No-one can ride 100km in z5, there’s likely something wrong with your zones or equipment.

Yeh – my fiver’s on poor conduction between strap & skin. Supposedly this allows flappy-shirt syndrome to overwhelm the true HR signal. I’ve started using a bit of ECG electrode gel on my strap and got rid of all the 100% or higher HR that I was getting almost before I’d even clipped in

Not sure about polar, but standard zones in garmin are comical.

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/joe-friel-s-quick-guide-to-setting-zones/

They’re almost identical so I guess Polar are also comical. Cheers I’ll have a read.

Yeah that seems very low.

Have you raced/done a time trial recently as your avg for that would give you a rough idea of ftp?

Thanks, nope I don’t race, except against myself, my concernn is I can’t ride at less than Z4 but I guess I need to do some reading or stop caring

So very quickly after starting riding your HR is around 162bpm? (based on your figures)

MHR = 189
RHR = 40
WHR = 149
Z4 lower bound = 82%

(WHR * .82) + 40 = 162

Pretty much 4 hour ride last week I was between 155 and 170 for 2.5 hours and between 171 and 189 for 54 mins.

If you are spending 54 minutes in Z5 then your zones are wrong. Look at the British Cycling zone tool for heart rate. I suspect your threshold heart rate is higher than you think. You’re same age and heart rate as me btw. When I raced at pretty much full gas for an hr last week, I managed about five minutes in Z5. And that was brutal!

I’m 52. never get above 170 max (well, 171 once when I thought I was going to do a body fluids “grand slam”)

If you are spending 54 minutes in Z5 then your zones are wrong. Look at the British Cycling zone tool for heart rate. I suspect your threshold heart rate is higher than you think. You’re same age and heart rate as me btw. When I raced at pretty much full gas for an hr last week, I managed about five minutes in Z5. And that was brutal!

Thanks TiRed yes maybe that’s true (very likely) I’ve done some reading on fifeandy’s links and I either need to do the test or stop worrying about it. I’m not sure I’ve the gumption to do an ftp test but hey one bored winter evening I may just do it. Thanks everyone.

My threshold hear rate is 175. That’s what I can hold for an hour. My max is about 185. Try setting your zones manually using the BC website. If you can still talk in your Z5, you’re definitely NOT in Z5!!!

Thanks again TiRed. Out of curiosity I’ve put your numbers into the British cycling calculator. It shows you only go into Z5 a few bpm, before your max of 185 , and I guess it’s calculated max of over 200 is just to be ignored am I understanding that right?
Guess an ftp test is on the horizon if I want to do this right and understand it better.

As above, do a lactate threshold test and find your zones from there.

A lack of base might mean you are spending a lot of time in zone 4 and if riding infrequently (just 2 times per week say) then it is more than likely you are just going out and riding really hard every time you go out (mostly zone 4 with a few bits in 5).

What’s your resting hr?

My Resting is 40 and I ride every day.Most days it’s just an hour (30 mins in in the morning and 30 mins home in the evening) Weekends is more like 3-4 hours on a Sat or Sunday.

Sounds like we share a similar goal – covering a long distance, as quickly as possible. I targeted a couple events this year, the Dragon Ride and the Monster, and was happy with how I did.

I did a six day MTB stage race last year, so have done quite a bit of endurance training over the last couple years. I found that the fitter I got (especially this year on the road), the more effort it seems to take to sustain Z2 intensity ie working harder for same heart rate (where Z2 is approximately 70-80% of Max HR)

OK, I’m generally towards the top of the Z2 range, but it’s not a pootle (or walk as you describe it), and requires effort. At Z2, I now average around 30kph (18mph) on my own, in the South Downs…

To share my experience:

– I had a coach last year, and gained quite a bit of knowledge which gave me the confidence to structure my own training.
– Z2 training requires a lot of discipline, focus, humility, and quite a bit of time, but got results for me. I always feared not finishing the event first, and speed second, so that’s how I structured my training. Maybe I was too conservative, but the Monster especially was a big day out.
– it’s basically a time trial type effort, so a constant power delivery, with as little rest as possible (ie pedal all the time, especially downhill!)
– Z2 is the zone (ie has a bottom and a top) not the just max!
– HR only is fine for endurance training, as you’re not putting in differing efforts / intervals, which is where the power meter is better.
– I was constantly reminding myself of the purpose of it, to improve aerobic (fat burning) efficiency, so was thinking about other things like feeding (I now need to eat less than I used to) and did a reasonable amount of fasted riding as well. I tweaked my diet as well, reducing carbs and replaced with more green veg.
– I can ‘zone out’, which definitely helped manage the boredom (at times! I mostly enjoyed it!), especially as I rode mostly on my own.
– I focused quite heavily on endurance over the winter into spring, but always did some intensity each week, and increased the proportion of intensity as time went on, but the priority was consistently getting the long, focused Z2 rides each in week (building up to regular 4-6 hours without really stopping, save for water refills). I did no tempo riding at all, until the six weeks before my main event. Before that it was either HIIT (turbo) or Z2, and when I did start tempo training, was mainly Sweetspot which I often did on the turbo to get properly measured efforts in.
– I was riding 10-14 hours over 5 days a week.
– Z2 didn’t work well in groups, unless people are happy to ride at your pace the whole time – you need to constantly focus on what you’re doing and your own effort.

No idea if my experience is typical.

To share my experience:

– I had a coach last year, and gained quite a bit of knowledge which gave me the confidence to structure my own training.
– Z2 training requires a lot of discipline, focus, humility, and quite a bit of time, but got results for me. I always feared not finishing the event first, and speed second, so that’s how I structured my training. Maybe I was too conservative, but the Monster especially was a big day out.
– it’s basically a time trial type effort, so a constant power delivery, with as little rest as possible (ie pedal all the time, especially downhill!)
– Z2 is the zone (ie has a bottom and a top) not the just max!
– HR only is fine for endurance training, as you’re not putting in differing efforts / intervals, which is where the power meter is better.
– I was constantly reminding myself of the purpose of it, to improve aerobic (fat burning) efficiency, so was thinking about other things like feeding (I now need to eat less than I used to) and did a reasonable amount of fasted riding as well. I tweaked my diet as well, reducing carbs and replaced with more green veg.
– I can ‘zone out’, which definitely helped manage the boredom (at times! I mostly enjoyed it!), especially as I rode mostly on my own.
– I focused quite heavily on endurance over the winter into spring, but always did some intensity each week, and increased the proportion of intensity as time went on, but the priority was consistently getting the long, focused Z2 rides each in week (building up to regular 4-6 hours without really stopping, save for water refills). I did no tempo riding at all, until the six weeks before my main event. Before that it was either HIIT (turbo) or Z2, and when I did start tempo training, was mainly Sweetspot which I often did on the turbo to get properly measured efforts in.
– I was riding 10-14 hours over 5 days a week.
– Z2 didn’t work well in groups, unless people are happy to ride at your pace the whole time – you need to constantly focus on what you’re doing and your own effort.

No idea if my experience is typical.

Not only is your experience typical, its also a really great post that describes exactly what z2 is about and why people should do it.

Conversely I struggle to get my heart rate much over the mid to high 150s on a ride home which takes about an hour with me ending up pretty breathless with legs burning at the top of a couple of the climbs. Based on age etc mine should be around 183. Resting is around low 50s. Does leave me slightly confused as the recorded rate doesn’t seem to tie in with how I feel. Garmin vivoactive fwiw, which is supposed to be fairly accurate according the review on dc rainmaker.

Also been riding in z2 for most of my road rides. Last week did 115 miles mostly in z2 – ate less, felt better towards the end and far more consistent over the 6.5 hours. I’ll continue doing this but it does feel nice to go out and hammer it occasionally:)

@ on and on

I’ve started joining club rides now my priority event is done and although I’m in good shape, and am competitive amongst the group, the high intensity smash fests really take it out of me. Legs are not used to that sort of exercise at all!

It shows you only go into Z5 a few bpm, before your max of 185 , and I guess it’s calculated max of over 200 is just to be ignored am I understanding that right?

Exactly right on both counts.

Here’s my race last week. A lot of Z5 activity for me, and I was absolutely dead at the end of it – and the day after too! You just can’t sustain Z5 for any duration. By definition.

I’ve found the BC zones to be pretty accurate for me.

Conversely I struggle to get my heart rate much over the mid to high 150s on a ride home which takes about an hour with me ending up pretty breathless with legs burning at the top of a couple of the climbs. Based on age etc mine should be around 183. Resting is around low 50s. Does leave me slightly confused as the recorded rate doesn’t seem to tie in with how I feel. Garmin vivoactive fwiw, which is supposed to be fairly accurate according the review on dc rainmaker.

The theoretical max rate is just that. You need to find out what your personal max is. Age minus 220 is just an estimate that works for some people, but not others.

Exactly right on both counts.
Here’s my race last week. A lot of Z5 activity for me, and I was absolutely dead at the end of it – and the day after too! You just can’t sustain Z5 for any duration. By definition.

I’ve found the BC zones to be pretty accurate for me.

Ooof that looks pretty tough. Good going. Thanks for the advice too

chum3 – Member
Sounds like we share a similar goal – covering a long distance, as quickly as possible. I targeted a couple events this year, the Dragon Ride and the Monster, and was happy with how I did.

I did a six day MTB stage race last year, so have done quite a bit of endurance training over the last couple years. I found that the fitter I got (especially this year on the road), the more effort it seems to take to sustain Z2 intensity ie working harder for same heart rate (where Z2 is approximately 70-80% of Max HR)

OK, I’m generally towards the top of the Z2 range, but it’s not a pootle (or walk as you describe it), and requires effort. At Z2, I now average around 30kph (18mph) on my own, in the South Downs…

To share my experience:

– I had a coach last year, and gained quite a bit of knowledge which gave me the confidence to structure my own training.
– Z2 training requires a lot of discipline, focus, humility, and quite a bit of time, but got results for me. I always feared not finishing the event first, and speed second, so that’s how I structured my training. Maybe I was too conservative, but the Monster especially was a big day out.
– it’s basically a time trial type effort, so a constant power delivery, with as little rest as possible (ie pedal all the time, especially downhill!)
– Z2 is the zone (ie has a bottom and a top) not the just max!
– HR only is fine for endurance training, as you’re not putting in differing efforts / intervals, which is where the power meter is better.
– I was constantly reminding myself of the purpose of it, to improve aerobic (fat burning) efficiency, so was thinking about other things like feeding (I now need to eat less than I used to) and did a reasonable amount of fasted riding as well. I tweaked my diet as well, reducing carbs and replaced with more green veg.
– I can ‘zone out’, which definitely helped manage the boredom (at times! I mostly enjoyed it!), especially as I rode mostly on my own.
– I focused quite heavily on endurance over the winter into spring, but always did some intensity each week, and increased the proportion of intensity as time went on, but the priority was consistently getting the long, focused Z2 rides each in week (building up to regular 4-6 hours without really stopping, save for water refills). I did no tempo riding at all, until the six weeks before my main event. Before that it was either HIIT (turbo) or Z2, and when I did start tempo training, was mainly Sweetspot which I often did on the turbo to get properly measured efforts in.
– I was riding 10-14 hours over 5 days a week.
– Z2 didn’t work well in groups, unless people are happy to ride at your pace the whole time – you need to constantly focus on what you’re doing and your own effort.

No idea if my experience is typical.

Thanks a lot for such a detailed post Chum3, I really appreciate the insight. I ride alone a lot so I’ll need to be more disciplined, I can do that on the flat but climbing is tough, if only I could avoid hills on my Z2 rides.

Interesting thread as ever with some fascinating posts 🙂

A couple of years ago, I was cramming in training for my annual few months Cycling fad and had real trouble with Z2 rides. It made my muscles ache!
Z3/4 would be effortless in comparison.

Although I haven’t found specific articles to confirm- my conclusion now is that it was basically just a symptom of my poor aerobic base and lack of fat adaptation.
My diet is high carb, and my job full of Anaerobic lifting activity during the spring and summer so once my muscles had enough sugar on-stream, I felt great. But in that endurance zone, I struggled to fuel myself efficiently.
With 18 months of fairly consistent riding in the bank this time around, I haven’t noticed it for a long time.

Not sure it’s legit but makes sense to me.

I’d say cultivating a big Z2 is the best allround improvement you can make- it means you have glycogen a’plenty when the going gets tough.

It’s pretty uncool mind you 😆

Does anyone know how to write/sync the heart rate and power zones from training peaks to a garmin device or garmin connect.

Although I haven’t found specific articles to confirm- my conclusion now is that it was basically just a symptom of my poor aerobic base and lack of fat adaptation.
My diet is high carb, and my job full of Anaerobic lifting activity during the spring and summer so once my muscles had enough sugar on-stream, I felt great. But in that endurance zone, I struggled to fuel myself efficiently.
With 18 months of fairly consistent riding in the bank this time around, I haven’t noticed it for a long time.

Not sure it’s legit but makes sense to me.

… and to me (but with the same caveat about having any scientific basis).

I can now almost feel the two energy systems (fat vs carb) working now. On long Z2 rides, I can start to feel the effort, and there is an ‘effort hump’ approaching Z3, but I know that if I burst into Z3+ and get and carbs going, then that hump disappears for a while (say 30 mins) until the body settles back into Z2 / fat mode. (The effect could be real or psychosomatic – I’d happily be talked into either!)

Initially, I just thought the effort hump was just me getting tired, until I realised that if I put in a good effort, the tiredness went away for a while. Similar to having a gel in fact – bit of an energy boost.

It’s why I found the discipline to stick to Z2 to be so important. It takes a while to resettle into Z2 which is ‘wasted time’ and once you get the carbs going sticking to Z2 becomes more difficult to feel.

EDIT – and agree there are fewer things more uncool than Z2 training! Until you reap the benefits, obvs!

Garmin has settings for custom zones. It’s manual, but you set them from what TP is giving you. Mine are set from the BC heart rate and power values. They also agree pretty well when I look at the “zone” screen, which is nice to know.

Garmin and strava are a bit crap for custom configuration of zones, i wanted to use the Joe Friel 7 zone system. Would also have liked not to have to configure it manually on every site.

Would also have liked not to have to configure it manually on every site.

What… like a ‘standard’?!?

Get outta here with your crazy fool ideas…

You probably need to do an ftp test to use to set your zones.

That’s what I did. It turned out that I was poor at fat burning so I spent lots of time riding in Z2, which felt deathly slow, but it really did help improve my endurance. For reference my max HR is 186 and zone 4 is 154-162.

Just for a bit of threadnomancy I’ve done a FTHR test tonight and got 171 (oh and ouch!! But not as bad as I expected)

Z2 and netflix in the winter are your friend. Peak in Feb and move to intervals thereafter.