http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/prototypes/full-sus-prototype/full-sus-prototype
I think it looks great, would be keen to find out a price for the frame but no info as of yet.
Bike Forum
Genesis grapil full suspension bike
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Posted 8 months ago #
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It does look good.
Posted 8 months ago # -
If they stuck a pivot in the chaistay I might be interested, otherwise it's just another single pivot
Posted 8 months ago # -
Like the look of that, would fill the gap between my 150 and 120mm bikes
Posted 8 months ago # -
Umm, am I the only one to think it reminds me of the NP mega?
No bad thing, and if it come in lighter (6LB range with shock) , I'd be very interested.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Is 120mm rear and 140mm front the new cool?
Posted 8 months ago # -
It looks like a longer travel version of the orange st4 which i really like too. Hopefully, it won't have the Orange price tag.
Posted 8 months ago # -
PeterPoddy - Member
If they stuck a pivot in the chainstay I might be interested, otherwise it's just another single pivot
what he said.
the first rumours about this bike showed a con-centric pivot/axle thing (think Split-pivot/ABP*), so to see it finally released with a CSP** is a little dissappointing.
(*which is just a complicated way of avoiding the FSR patent)
(**Cheap-Skate-Pivot; the design used by Turner, Scott, Kona, etc. when they weren't allowed to use the chainstay pivot anymore)
Posted 8 months ago # -
I like the look of that, and if it comes in that green so much the better.
Posted 8 months ago # -
(**Cheap-Skate-Pivot;
Sounds good to me!
Posted 8 months ago # -
I have no problem with CSP. Anyway, the Horst link patent that Specialized own runs out next year (or maybe 2013). And I'd have thought that Genesis would only be selling in the UK, or Europe at most so the HL patent doesn't apply. So, I can only guess they (Genesis) don't see it as relevant.
Posted 8 months ago # -
that isn't just a single pivot though, is it... its got a linkage actuated shock - so it is more yeti 575 than orange 5.
Posted 8 months ago # -
pretty sure it is single pivot looking at the picture
Posted 8 months ago # -
There's a pivot on the seatstay where it attaches to the chainstay.
Posted 8 months ago # -
that isn't just a single pivot though, is it... its got a linkage actuated shock - so it is more yeti 575 than orange 5.
575 has a seatstay pivot....
All that linkage does is isolate the forces on the rear end from the shock bushing and stiffen it up.
With no other pivots in the system, if you removed that linkage, the shock stroke geometry wouldn't change, and the bike would funtion just the same, but flex a lot.It's a single pivot.
EDIT
Was typing when this was posted
There's a pivot on the seatstay where it attaches to the chainstay
It looks like there might be, yes. It's not that obvious at first glance.
So yeah, it's a Kona.
Posted 8 months ago # -
yep, it's basically a kona.
nothing wrong with that, but i'm a little dissappointed about it after 2 years of waiting/rumours/spyshots/etc showing something a little more intelligent.
"ooooh! - look! - it's got an axle/pivot! - ooooh!
ooooh! - is that one a 29er!?!? - ooooh!
oh, it's a kona. oh."
Posted 8 months ago # -
Excellent cheapskatepivot (tm) is better than far anyway too much pedal bob !
Posted 8 months ago # -
Looks a lot like that Saracen thingy. While I'm disappointed with the lack of chainstay pivots, it does look useful.
Posted 8 months ago # -
There are a limited number of ways you can make a swing arm...
I like it, but I have my 150mm rear 160mm from covert and cannot be persuaded that I need another fs..Posted 8 months ago # -
Looks a bit like a Blood that I already have and so don't need another.I like rocker actuated single pivots. Is that very wrong?
Posted 8 months ago # -
I like that!
Posted 8 months ago # -
Looks a lot like that Saracen thingy. While I'm disappointed with the lack of chainstay pivots, it does look useful.
Both Madison owned brands - no real surprise I suppose.
Posted 8 months ago # -
I thought the FSR patent only applied to frames/bikes sold in the US market (which is why you see Canadian and Euro 'Horst' link frames)?
Posted 8 months ago # -
Based on the proto I rode and the designs I was shown at Icebike, it was Trek and ABP that was the issue. Deffo wasn't a Horst link. They thought they'd got round it but designed the single pivot bike above just in case. Looks like they needed it.
Posted 8 months ago # -
I'd like to see a compromise - Horst link on drive side, seat stay pivot on none drive side. Best of both worlds.
Posted 8 months ago # -
jackthedog. Very good.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Posted 8 months ago # -
No real issues with axle pivot patents in the UK / Europe at the moment, Treks patent is different and DW has US but not European. For now anyway.
the first rumours about this bike showed a con-centric pivot/axle thing (think Split-pivot/ABP*), so to see it finally released with a CSP** is a little dissappointing.
(*which is just a complicated way of avoiding the FSR patent)
An axle pivot isn't an FSR-avoider - it's a different kinematic, it does different things.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Wow! Looks right up my street.
Bushing though... don't they mess us the frame if you get any dirt or play in them?
Alex
Posted 8 months ago # -
Looks good to me
But what do I know
Looks like better heel clearance than a five
Posted 8 months ago # -
looks like a blood as stated already, looks great I think.
A fancy single pivot.
Posted 8 months ago # -
ajt123 - if done right bushings can outlast bearings. Just ask a Turner owner.
Posted 8 months ago # -
yep, it's basically a kona.
nothing wrong with that, but i'm a little dissappointed about it after 2 years of waiting/rumours/spyshots/etc showing something a little more intelligent.
Erm...
Not quite
Far more so than how many linkages a frame has, where they are and what they're connected to, is the main pivot placement. Kona's pedal like poo cos their main pivot is too low in general. 4 bars get away with slightly lower main pivots and still pedal ok, because of the slight compensation in the axle path. But decent single pivots with the pivot pretty much inline with the middle ring (or whatever size single ring you're running) are still very much the order of the day for most things. Actuating the shock via linkages is a neat way of getting the desired spring curve without resorting to silly shock technology. Afterall, it works on motorbikes still! Something most people seem to forget...
Posted 8 months ago # -
anyone from genesis/madison on here with an idea of frame only price?
Posted 8 months ago # -
An axle pivot isn't an FSR-avoider
yes it is.
- it's a different kinematic, it does different things.
They do the same thing: they both allow the brake calliper to be mounted on the seatstay not the swing-arm.
the axle paths of a axle/pivot and a typical horst link design are very similar, but there is a fundamental difference between a brake calliper mounted on the seatstay, and a brake calliper mounted on the swingarm/chainstay.
it's why trek done it, they call it the ABP after all...
i'll be interested to see how many bike companies release a horst-link design if/when the patent expires...
('cause it's really quite a clever design)
Posted 8 months ago #
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