First Road Bike - Help Narrowing Down

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First Road Bike - Help Narrowing Down

147 posts & 43 voices | Started 5 months ago by Stevo210 | Latest reply from StefMcDef

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Mary Hinge - Member

I got my bike fit done as part of a Planet X deal. As it was my first road bike and I had no clue, it really made all the difference.

My PX SL Pro Carbon is just so much fun to ride, and really comfortable. And I put a lot of that down to getting the fit right.

One thing about groupsets - I have Tiagra on my commuter, and SRAM Rival on my PX. I really like the double tap system of SRAM. Also Tiagra cables come out of the side of the lever, whereas the SRAM and the higher Shimano are routed along the bars under the handlebar tape. Much neater.

Have a nice morning Rotherham

Posted 5 months ago #
Stevo210 - Member

Have a nice morning Rotherham
Hey are you warning Rotherham or wishing me a nice time in Rotherham??

Posted 5 months ago #
mboy - Member

That really is just bullshit of the highest order . Sure Giant make frames for other manufacturers but they have no input into the design or specification of anybody elses frame .

Except that they do... It's not like a designer miles away just sends a drawing, and says to Giant to make a hundred of them, as it would be with the likes of small UK based manufacturers. The likes of the big boys getting frames made by Giant are going to have to work with them very closely, and all the machinery and tooling will be bespoke.

It's like in Formula 1 where Ferrari and Mercedes make engines for other teams too, but there is always a 2-3% advantage having a Factory unit rather than a customer unit power wise. Same with Giant frames, the difference might only be very marginal either in weight or stifness terms, but if they're making frames for the competition then they know what the standard is they have to beat themselves. You seen the frame weights and stifness claims on the 2012 Giant road bikes? They're topping the mainstream Carbon pile once again anyway... Now unless someone who actually works in the Giant Factory and has empirical evidence to the contrary would care to chip in, you willing to accept you have little knowledge of how engineering and manufacturing works in relation with continuous improvement, and how competition drives this?

Or are my comments falling on deaf ears?

Or have I just ignored the fact that "best" is totally subjective when it comes to bikes anyway, and as a result engineering and design doesn't matter a jot and we really should all ride whatever the latest offering from Yorkshire is...?

IGMC

Posted 5 months ago #
iainc - Member

aaargghhhh

just so much info, I have been piggybacking this thread (sorry Stevo) along with my own one and I am left with a choice of Giant Defy Composite 1, Spesh Roubaix Elite and Trek Madone 3.5.

I guess the main thing is that they are probably all so close and similarly priced that it comes down to a personal choice. Not helped by the fact that most bikes shops only let you ride for 10 mins round the car park....

personally I suspect that the big upbent toptube on the Spesh might scupper my short legged undercarriage which hangs low after 3 kids then the Trek is too racy for my fecked old back, and I end up buying the one that wasn't on my list - the Giant.....

Posted 5 months ago #
Ramsey Neil - Member

"It's like in Formula 1 where Ferrari and Mercedes make engines for other teams too, but there is always a 2-3% advantage having a Factory unit rather than a customer unit power wise. Same with Giant frames, the difference might only be very marginal either in weight or stifness terms, but if they're making frames for the competition then they know what the standard is they have to beat themselves."

That comparison does not work , it would only work if Giant built a giant frame and rebadged it as a Spesh or Trek or whatever .
Also don't you think the big manufacturers will buy some bikes from other manufacturers to see if they are doing anything better or new and innovative that they could copy.

Posted 5 months ago #
njee20 - Member

Ramsey Neil +1

Mboy your analogies don't work - as stated manufacturers don't send over a pencil drawing and say they want Giant to build them a frame. Giant provide premises and people and not a vast amount else. People really do get far too hung up on the 'made in the same factory' thing. For a start they are not the sole manufacturer. Trek do all OCLV stuff in house in the US. Their TCT carbon comes from Taiwan, but do you honestly think they'd use a facility who wouldn't do things to their exact specification!?

By what measure are Giants the best?

They're not the best selling. They don't have the most pro victories.

They don't really have a new aero road bike, which is where the focus is going. The Foil, Venge, etc are faster bikes. Surely Giant wouldn't have let a more aero bike be built?! What about TT frames? They do cheap, but they're a way off the top end stuff. They've just started doing wheels, why are they not lighter than anything else out there?

They make good bikes for sure, but to state they are unequivocally the best and they don't release any of their best technologies to other manufacturers is showing a total lack of knowledge about bikes and how the industry works!

Posted 5 months ago #
grantyboy - Member

I've picked up a Boardman Team Carbon for £1k yesterday, think its the best bang for buck deal out there at the moment

Posted 5 months ago #
oldgit - Member

njee20. I was told by someone who had it direct from Giant, that they aren't persuing the aero bikes just yet, as they believe that rider comfort is the way to go and that aero doesn't deliver any real advantage on road bikes as opposed to TT bikes ect. Or something like that.

Posted 5 months ago #
njee20 - Member

I wasn't disputing the reasons behind it - my point was that mboy is saying that Giant are unequivocally the best, because they don't offer any of their better technologies to other brands - which is just bollocks, and a good example of that is the entire branch of frame building they don't even get involved in!

Posted 5 months ago #
iainc - Member

had a first look at Spesh, Trek and Giant and testing them tomorrow - at the moment the Giant is edging it

Posted 5 months ago #
Zulu-Eleven - Member

Isn't all this like saying that a Merida is definitely a better bike than than a Specialized, coz they own the factory

Posted 5 months ago #
thegman67 - Member

I had a bike fit done at Dales cycles and based on that now looking at a sectuer

Posted 5 months ago #
iainc - Member

thegman67 - do you mind me asking how much the fit cost, as I am trying both the Spesh and Giant there ?

Posted 5 months ago #
Nick Scots - Member

I would demo different bikes, fit and comfort equals function.

I have a coast 105 / sram mixed bike.999 pounds. Use it up tak me doon, glen lyon, col de forclaz and col de colombier.

Have fun - strong core makes drops riding more enjoyable.

Posted 5 months ago #
hilldodger - Member

Picking up my first road bike for 20 years on Friday.
My selection process was pop into LBS, have a look at a few bikes, ask the shop guys "what do you ride round here" answer TCR - got last years (ie 2011) for £450 off RRP.

No idea if it's going to be "the best bike for me" or even if it's "the best buy" but it looks and feels better than I ever remember road bikes and it's going to be fun finding out.

At 178cm tall a M with 100mm stem was spot on, M/L was noticeably too big, wheels are indeed DT/Giant hubs, rest of gear 10speed Ultegra with Giant post/stem/bars/saddle. Road pedals seemed significantly harder to clip in/out than spds so first few rides will be with spds & mtb shoes, might even keep the peak on the helmet, oh the shame

...pics and first impressions later this week

Posted 5 months ago #
Gary_C - Member

so first few rides will be with spds & mtb shoes, might even keep the peak on the helmet, oh the shame

LOL. Don't forget the Camelbak too!

Posted 5 months ago #
Stevo210 - Member

...pics and first impressions later this week
Looking forward to seeing the pics and seeing what you make of it.

I managed to get to ride a couple today, not super conclusive but this is what I thought. Bear in mind I haven't ridden a road bike in a long time.

RT-57 Carbon Small
First off ridiculously light. loved the look of the bike the drivetrain kit was superb and the machined billet calipers could only be appreciated by a blokey bloke who tinkers in his shed.....I loved em. Stopped well too.
Got up to speed really quickly and felt stable, turned well and as said stopped great.
My only reservation was when standing and putting the power down, the front end for me felt very twitchy, and I felt uneasy throwing the bike side to side to get the momentum up.

2011 Giant TCR 0 (Alu) Small - Stem 80mm
Felt really nice and as the RT-57 wizzed up to speed with ease. Felt a lot smaller than the Planet-X ride but still felt ok. Standing up and powering was a totally different story, it felt great and controlled. Didnt get to do any high speed cornering but what I did manage it felt very stable. Full Ultergra kit, was easy to use would be second nature after a few rides.

2012 Giant Defy Composite 1 Medium - Stem 100mm
From the off although similar to the TCR it seems a much more compliant ride, It was a little more stretched out (slightly but didnt feel big)and it felt like it would be a more comfortable middle ground from a racey frame. The super helpful shop guy swapped the step for an 80mm and lowered the stack by 10mm to try and achieve a similar riding position of the TCR. This was much better for me, bars a little closer and a little racier, but still with the forgiving frame.

Its really hard to pick between them as there were too many variables to compare, namely the frame geom, material & frame size. To be honest Id be happy with either of them, with a few tweaks to the seat position and stem length etc.

Ive yet to try the Trek 3.1/3.5 as they were too large and the Specialized Roubaix was the same. I'll grab my friends Roubaix this week to rule this one in or out as the case maybe, but I'd imagine it'll be a bit too high at the front for me.

Im in search of trying a TCR carbon Small and Medium back to back with a Defy Carbon Small and Medium, then I'll report back.

Posted 5 months ago #
iainc - Member

Stevo - good feedback - I will try and do same tomorrow. Cheers

the most interesting part for me is that you are a bit less in height and felt ok on a Defy medium, yet I am unsure whether at 5ft 10 to go for M or M/L...

Posted 5 months ago #
rusty trowel - Member

'the most interesting part for me is that you are a bit less in height and felt ok on a Defy medium, yet I am unsure whether at 5ft 10 to go for M or M/L... '
Unless you are really short in the leg, the 13mm extra standover height wont make much difference. An extra 15mm in the top tube however is pretty significant if like me you've got long arms.

My Lynskey is a M/L and is only a 52cm seat tube, but has 55.7cm effective tt length which combined with a 120mm stem gets me somewhere close to my correct position.
Before i had this, i had a Trek 1.5 and had to have a 56cm frame that was borderline to tall for me just to get a top tube long enough, as the 54cm frame was way too short and cramped.
The madone 3 series have these same measurements, so i couldnt get one even if it was 'the best'.
Giant TCRs and Defys would fit me much better on paper with the M/L being a 53.5 with a 56tt
Spesh would also seem to fit me with the tarmac 56 actually being a 53 with a 56.5tt and the roubaix 56 being a 51.5 with a 56.5tt.

p.s. i'm 5' 10" with 30" inside leg and monkeys arms!

You do realise though that as none of the bikes you are looking at have campagnolo on them that they are all crap, dont you?

Posted 5 months ago #
iainc - Member

Stevo - update from me - I have just ordered a Defy Composite 1 having been into Dales and Alpine and looked at Spesh Roubaix Elite, Trek Madone 3.5 and the Giant. Unfortunately none in stock and 15 week delivery BUT I got it at the Christmas Sale price which is 20% off

Posted 5 months ago #
gonetothehills - Member

iainc - Member

...just ordered a Defy Composite 1...15 week delivery BUT I got it at the Christmas Sale price which is 20% off ...

You'll be getting it almost around the time they're reducing the 2012 ones!

Have you looked at Cyclestore? 2012 model already with 10% off and 10% free goods (plus they price match too). They may just have stock as they're a proper bike shop as well as a warehouse - got to be worth a shot versus waiting 'til Easter!

Posted 5 months ago #
iainc - Member

gtth - I did have a wee look there, there is a supply problem apparently with some sizes all over the place. I'm buying from Dales in Glasgow who are a pretty big dealer, so they said they will speak to distributor when they are back on 9th Jan and try and jump the queue...... I think(hope) they were giving me worse case - they also reckon that they probably have some in that size coming (for stock) anyway, but apparently can't find that out till 9th. If so I will get one of them.

Posted 5 months ago #
Stevo210 - Member

iainc - Member

Stevo - update from me - I have just ordered a Defy Composite 1 having been into Dales and Alpine and looked at Spesh Roubaix Elite, Trek Madone 3.5 and the Giant. Unfortunately none in stock and 15 week delivery BUT I got it at the Christmas Sale price which is 20% off
Thats great mate, what did you actually get to ride in the end and can you remember what the characteristics were of them....and send me the link for the shop where you got it from will ya.
I've just lined up a test ride on s/m on both defy Comp 1 and TCR advanced for later this week. So should be sorted but that 20% is massive

Posted 5 months ago #
gonetothehills - Member

Cool - roll on the 9th (but not too fast as I don't really want to go back to work anytime soon!)

Posted 5 months ago #
iainc - Member

Posted 5 months ago #
billyboy - Member

I'd forgotten that I know someone who has done the Trek bike fit training and passed. I don't dislike the guy but he is one of the most useless individuals to ever mechanic a bicycle this side, and the other side, of The Carpathian Mountains.

I've also met at least two fellas who wander around looking for bikes with a bike fit type printout suggesting crank lengths that don't exist and other borderline achievable measurements that come nowhere near any stock bikes and which would be very difficult to recreate on custom builds.

I've also known at least one example where you hit the exact spot their printouts say they need, and the customer then finds in very short order that they are major league uncomfortable.

Posted 5 months ago #
iainc - Member

Dales

Stevo - I rode the 2012 Defy Advanced SL in a medium, which was a bit small, and a M/L Defy 1 2011 (geometry is unchanged) which fitted well, so I got the sizing sorted, although not actually rode the composite frameset. The overall fit was good in M/L. They do have a L one they are going to build up next day or 2 so I can actually have a prod at it 'in the flesh'.
On teh back of GTTH post I also spoke to a couple of other Giant Dealers, who all said same thing re delivery times, but you could be lucky with the sizing you are after. The Dales sale runs for another few days and does include mail order bikes.....

Posted 5 months ago #
Stevo210 - Member

Cheers for the link, I couldnt see the Composite 1 listed on there but I could give them a call.
That's great news on yours, quite jealous now. If you rode the Aluminium version (Defy1) then the Carbon will be just so much more lush. I'm sure you'll love it!!!

Posted 5 months ago #
iainc - Member

Stevo - it's not on their website, but the 20% off applies to all bikes they sell, even if not in stock, as long as ordered during the sale. Can't wait to get it !!!!

The boss put the foot down on the n+1 rule, so my Cannondale BadBoy is now on the classifieds

Posted 5 months ago #
Stevo210 - Member

Righto. 'n+1'? whats that mean. You mean you have to a one bike household?

Ive a Cannondale Carbon rush, but there's no way that's leaving the house

Posted 5 months ago #
njee20 - Member

'n+1'? whats that mean.

The correct number of bikes one should own is n+1, where n is the current number of bikes owned.

Posted 5 months ago #
iainc - Member

what njee said ! I had to compromise to keep close to 'in the goodbooks' and I don't use the BadBoy much, even less once I put my Jake the Snake back to cx mode, so punting 1 bike keeps my overall number the same at 4

Posted 5 months ago #
Stevo210 - Member

Ah I see!! this will be my first +1 ever! Divorce would follow even the mention of +2 I'm sure.......4???? good work!

Posted 5 months ago #
Stevo210 - Member

Well the saga has finally come to a conclusion.... hopefully the right one
As said I had a organised a test ride on the Defy Comp 1 and a TCR advanced 3 as they were a similar price. but when I turned up the weather was awful so we got them set up on the trainer to see how things measured up.

I was surprised to find that Im actually a Small not a Medium as in the other shop. This would explain why I wanted to try the shorter stem.
On looks alone I was settling on the TCR, the internal cabling and the frame shape was a piece of art. But I was reserving judgement till I had had a ride on both of them. Well yesterday I got to ride both and although they were both great to ride, I felt a little uncomfortable on the TCR, its definitely a much more focussed ride and I think I would really struggle to relax and 'settle in' to that on longer rides.

So I have opted for the Defy and if I wish to lower the bars in the coming months there's a good 30mm of spacers on the steerer so hopefully this will allow a little bit of flexibility.

Posted 4 months ago #
oldgit - Member

Nice one. How tall are you BTW?
I'm 5'8" and ride a small TCR. I did buy medium SCR ltd once, but that was too big. The compact frame does make them look tiny though.

Posted 4 months ago #