Have we done this. 191 cyclists required hospital treatment after crashing on the tram tracks.

“The commonest injury is a fracture of the clavicle [collarbone]. We have had a few more significant injuries, particularly elbow injuries that have been quite complicated and have left people with some permanent disability. It’s become a new work stream for us. “It’s not the £1m cost to the NHS, the problem is the suffering caused by the accidents and people having time off work, often ending up with some chronic disability with reduced function in a wrist or a shoulder, and perhaps not getting back to sport.”

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburgh-tram-track-injuries-have-cost-nhs-more-than-1m-1-4396386

So – user error as per the comments to the article or will the council be paying out once one of these cases gets to court?

It’s not user error. Tram lines and bikes are a poor combination. Crossing them at anything other than right angles in the wet is ill advised. This is difficult when you consider traffic and some of the bizarre bike lane planning. It’s definitely a challenge on the new tracks along corporation street in Manchester. I’ve no idea what’s the law would say.

May have done this before. The angle the tracks take going into Haymarket is the problem. To take them at a decent angle means you have to turn into the path of the traffic behind you. (The tracks turn away from you) What does surprise me is the number of non cycle related crashes attributed to the tracks. (191 cyclists but 61 others)

Slips and trips for those 61 others. Easy to catch a toe in the right shoes.

Wonder if there’s some comparable data from places like Sheffield?

Mopeds as well wouldn’t surprise me?

Meh. I’ve no sympathy. The skinny tyred freaks should be rollin’ on 4″ of finest rubber.

Yep can confirm fat bikes are immune to tracks and roll brilliantly.

Til a hill.

At Haymarket in particular there’s some bad crossings- it’s a nasty wee section of road in all sorts of ways, not just for bikes. But honestly I think a huge proportion will be rider error. I’ve seen a couple of pretty nasty ones which were 100% about the rider blundering into the tracks for no reason at all

Its 100% the councils fault. Its not just aat haymarket – its all along princes street as well – at one point the cycle lane is betweenthe tram tracks and at the east end of princes street you have also to cross the tracks at a shallow angle.

The reason the council have no defense and will have to pay up is that they commissioned a report from Dutch transport experts on how to get safe cycle provision with the tram tracks along princes street to haymarket – and then completely ignored the results. the road design is absolutely awful and very dangerous.

For those who don’t know Edinburgh a few google streetview links to show some of the most ridiculous areas
https://goo.gl/maps/bRzQ6rEgxQ22 and one click along from that – almost impossible to cross the tracks at a safe angle
cycle lane between the tram tracks – if you attempt to stay on the left you get your elbow hit by cars on a differnt light phasing – so you have to go between the tracks then how do you get out of them – you cannot cross at right angles from between them. I bunny hop
https://goo.gl/maps/cneAdCbyf9p

The infamous haymarket junction – this is after the redesign ( pics with red cyclepath – some of the pics are pre the redesign) to make it safer – follow along and see how you can both keep a safe distance from the kerb and cross the tracks at right angles
https://goo.gl/maps/SoZ9na6VH7U2

Well from a very non scientific study, I’ve ridden along the tracks once to get to Haymarket, and thanks to a taxi serving in front of me and stopping, my front wheel got caught. Luckily managed to lift it out before I fell, but this is the nearest to a fall on road I’ve had in tens of thousands of miles.

scotroutes – Member
Meh. I’ve no sympathy. The skinny tyred freaks should be rollin’ on 4″ of finest rubber.

😆

I’ve been cycling into Edinburgh and along Princes Street daily for the last year and think that at least one of those incidents must come down to the shocking design of the tram / Road layout. As shown in the links above there are instances where you are simply thrust into a dangerous situation without any warning or space and time to react.

The one at the east end of Princes Street is particularly bad because typically there is a double decker bus in front of you obscuring your view while a taxi harrasses you behind. In any other situation you’d be able to make allowances for this with your position on the road but here you are forced into a dangerous swerve across the tram tracks at a moment’s notice.

I hate the claim conscious society that we’ve become but in this case I’m sure that at least a few of these people will have genuinely come to harm because of this irresponsible design and if it has affected their livelihood perhaps they are justified in seeking recompense.

Tram lines and bikes are a poor combination

Amsterdam. Works perfectly.

Exactly. Bloody roadies, unable to pop a wheel over 3″ of steel.

Amsterdam. Works perfectly. [/quote]

So CEC asked Dutch transport consultants how to make a safe design for princes street for both trams and cycles, were given a design that would have been safe – and completely ignored it. Look at those links I posted above to see how ridiculous the design is.

piemonster – Member
Slips and trips for those 61 others. Easy to catch a toe in the right shoes.

Wonder if there’s some comparable data from places like Sheffield?

try this cyclesheffield has collected and mapped accident data (380 accidents reported to them over 24months) and campaigned on the issue with some limited success, believe that in latest “safety” changes on Middlewood rd cyclist concerns have been ignored in favour of traffic flow and putting ped’s out of car range

http://www.cyclesheffield.org.uk/category/announcements/

as to

CaptainFlashheart »
Tram lines and bikes are a poor combination

Amsterdam. Works perfectly. …..get a bit actually totally fed up with this one it is a crap point

currently live in Melbourne, Aus and we have a lot of trams, like most mainland European cities with trams (including Amsterdam were I’ve worked regularly) the lines are in the middle of the road or in a separated area in the middle of the road – the only issue for cyclists is crossing at right angles in the wet – this is very different from Sheffield where I used to live were cyclists are mixed in with tram tracks and have to repeatedly cross them at shallow angles it really is frightening and dangerous – similar to the crap road layout in Edinburgh

The reason the council have no defense and will have to pay up is that they commissioned a report from Dutch transport experts on how to get safe cycle provision with the tram tracks along princes street to haymarket – and then completely ignored the results. the road design is absolutely awful and very dangerous

If that is true it sounds like there’s a lot of negligence claims coming the council’s way. Great news for council tax payers…

Makes you wonder about the quality of project and risk management that they went ahead in spite of clear evidence. If I was the person who’d commissioned then ignored the advice that could have saved 190 injuries, I’d be having a mental breakdown!

Edinburgh city council are a nasty mix of arrogance, incompetence and corruption

I expect that CEC will simply fold and pay out in the end. they won’t risk a court judgement – same as they have done with the stat notices scandal – fight right to the steps of the court then fold

One person right at the centre of all this – Leslie Hinds. a known liar and a facilitator of corruption. She is the reason I did not vote labour last GE. She stood as my local labour candidate.

Christ, if she is bad by labours standards, she must be bloody awful!

Nobeer. She is utterly awful

WAs head of the committe that had oversight of the statnotices – she disbanded the committee. She then went on the be chair – presided over the stat notice scandal and the trams scandal. Went to be IIRC transport committee chair. Responsible for wasting huge sums on repeated road works and wasting money on useless cycleways

When standing for Westminster told our group she would meet with us to discuss the stat notices, put it off till after the election then refused to meet us

Incompetent, arrogant and a liar. Makes Murphy look like a statesman

I used to commute by bike into central Edinburgh. There are some nasty bits with the tram lines as others have said.

It’s not really user error in most cases. You can see the tracks but when it’s wet, dark and you have the 44 bus up your backside all bets are off. There are a couple of bits that you need to consciously hop / turn suddenly to avoid crossing at a dangerous angle while following the traffic flow.

Edinburgh city council are a nasty mix of arrogance, incompetence and corruption[/I]

While normally I find I have to disagree with TJ, not on this occasion. Another example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutory_Repairs,_Edinburgh

br – I am the victim of the biggest Stat notice scandal. 12 years of fighting with the council. £300 000 of work came to £1.7 million in the end, council wanted me to pay £140 000 as my share. After a lot of work from me thats down to £60 000 for my share. I have told them I will not pay that, I will pay a fair amount that they can prove was legally owed. They have started court proceedings against me, you guys know me – they picked the wrong guy. I have asked them for the information they should hold to show its a fair bill ( and that I know they don’t have) A year after the summons to court they have still not provided this info but will not stop the action.

Sheffield where I used to live were cyclists are mixed in with tram tracks and have to repeatedly cross them at shallow angles it really is frightening and dangerous – similar to the crap road layout in Edinburgh

I ended up on the deck in west street in front of a tram, after hooking up the rear wheel on a tramline turing left. I live in Notts now, we have trams, the infrastructure is still crap.

If I was the person who’d commissioned then ignored the advice that could have saved 190 injuries, I’d be having a mental breakdown!

If I did something that led to that number of injuries, I’d be sacked and quite possibly put in jail.

well all cyclists should ride on the footways , and then when told of, text their parent and then the parent will rant pointlessly on here, and get petty and childish with people who point out the rules and laws.

Whereas if you work for Edinburgh council everything is stall delay and deny until the culprits retire. Press them hard enough they will say ” take me to court” then once you have spent time and money on preparing a case they will fold on the steps of the court -thats what they are doing here.

oh and theres supposed to be a new 2 city crossing in manchester that is particularly bad for cyclists. Trams intimidating cyclists.