My knowledge is limited to what I can read about the place, I’ve never been and never done any work there.

For those who have worked there…would you say a 3-5 year stint is crazy?

From what I’ve read, other than money, the “cons” seem to outweigh the “pros” by a fairly significant margin 😯

First hand experiences would be greatly appreciated.

My Mrs went, she hated it, from the heat to the arrogant locals to the obvious slave labour being used, she was also kidnapped by an insane taxi driver who only stopped when she screamed at some coppers who were driving next to them, being a women probably didn’t help but she’s never going back..
Big ££££££££’s if your that way inclined though…

Wowzers. Sadly, that sort of story doesn’t seem uncommon.

I’m not enthusiastic about it, but would mean being able retire in 30’s, so the temptation is definitely there. Would rather work a bit (OK, a lot) longer here than end up dead/in jail/with one hand/mental defunct though 😐

My experience of Saudi is old – 1980. So things may be quite different now, so hopefully someone with more recent experience will be along. However, I think it all depends on the type of outfit you are going with. If it’s a big organisation with a compound, it’s own facilities, etc. then you may well find it comfortable. If, like me, you are with a relatively small company living “in town” you might find your “leisure time” a bit unfulfilling. I ended up working 6 days a week and lots of overtime just to make the time go by. It was sometimes a bit lonely though of course international communication is so much easier now. Back then it was airmail! At the end of a year I’d had enough. Mind you, my pockets were bulging when I came home. Some guys I knew working for the big oil companies had been there for years.

I don’t know how relationships are these days between the Saudis and British expats. Back then it was OK, though some did like to rub our noses in the fact that the Middle East “problem” was all our fault. I don’t know if particular issue has more prominence now. My gut feeling would be most Saudis don’t give a stuff, they’re doing nicely thank you.

Oh, where would you be going if you went? It’s a big place. I was on the Gulf coast so at least I got to see water now and then. I wouldn’t want to be based inland.

Whatever contract you go out on, ensure there is a reasonable notice period should you wish to jack.

Thanks, slowoldman.

I believe it would be Riyadh. Big company (mostly state owned), but part of international team. Big expat compound, supposed to be quite good. Money is, quite frankly, ridiculous. The more I read, the more I think I know why though…they could pull someone in with 1/5th of what they are offering…if anyone actually fancied going!

Went out years ago. Never again. Here’s a story. One of our IT guys was there for a couple of weeks. Had a free day so went sightseeing. Starts taking photographs of buildings. The religious police (can’t remember the name) grab him and he’s arrested. He phones our business partner out there who contacts us and assures us that if he isn’t released, they’ll pay for a replacement IT bod! He’s eventually released after a few days and flies on to Dubai where he meets a colleague and bursts into tears upon seeing him.

F’ that.

only briefly – i see alot of the world , you see alot of things.

i wouldnt go live in or rotation there for all the tea in china – and my list of places i wouldnt do that is quite short – infact of all the places ive been saudi and kuwait are the only ones on that list so far.

I’d even take Nigeria before I went out there.

The jobs offering salarys that you can retire in your 30s/40s on working expat – generally have good reasons for that – from west Africa , middle east and russia. – yet if I want to move to do the SAME job in Australia – they offer me less than I get in Aberdeen to live in Perth where i could afford rent on a small apartment “but your life style would be much better” was their excuse.

I’ve been offered quite a few such positions (in oil co’s) , I stand in on occasion for people on such salary s pro rata – im quite happy at the end of my 4-6 weeks to hand back the keys and go home – im sure it gets easier as you carry on but the attitudes from locals and ex pats is unreal – everyone is stressed and feeling shit because of the location and how hard it is to get things done so they take it out on each other.

I was hoping you’d post trail_rat, thought you’d be able to give some sort of comparison. Cheers.

Aye, it certainly seems to be a complete non starter. The problem with the job is that it’s one big transaction that they want done, which they think will take 3 years (but in reality I think will take closer to 5). The value of the transaction and the fact that the company is mostly state owned worries me – if it goes belly up or drags on the chance of escape might not be so easy. Would be able to save 7 figures in 5 years though, hence the temptation. But it still doesn’t seem worth it!

(btw – I actually quite like lagos!!!)

EDIT: after sending out a few enquiries to friends/acquaintances, someone has just come back to me to say that their father in law was out for 2 years and had to come home after things turned sour at work and he had a nervous breakdown. Hmmmm.

I lived and worked there for the whole of 1994. As above, things may have changed since then.

I worked up at the oil refinery in Ras Tanura but lived around the Al Khubar/Dharan/Damman area. I was working for a small company and was on a mixed compound of similarly employed ex-pats.

I found it very lonely to start as the only transport I had was a driver who would pick me up for work in the morning and drop me off back at the compound at night. You need a motor to get around.

You’ll need to keep your eyes out for the religous police (mattawa??) as they can be proper mental. Funniest thing I witnessed was one of them getting their just desserts after trying to man-handle a Canadian woman who had dared to venture out to the supermarket unaccompanied and without her face covered (she was in the wrong though as, at the time, this was decreed in Sharia Law – it may have relaxed a bit). As the was being pushed around, she reached into her bag and puled out one of those personal cattle-prod type things. He laughed at her, so she zapped him.

I didn’t take my wife with me, but meet quite a few ex-pats who did. Unfortunately, as there is nothing to do but sit around drinking Sid (Sidiki – ilegally produced booze) many of them turned into alcoholics.

Would you enjoy 50 degrees plus in the summer?

Just read Trail-rat’s post.

I’d forgotten about the bureaucracy. Jeeez. The work I was doing was originally supposed to take two months. It took best part of a year because of this.

…. and 52C with 100% humidity.

Would you enjoy 50 degrees plus in the summer?

50f, maybe 🙂

one thing i would say peter is if you are remotely considering it – go visit before signing anything , and visit not as if it was a holiday but as if you were living there – try to go shopping , try to eat out , try to do some recreational activities – gym, swimming , cycling , running ….

Im currently sat in Equatorial Guinea watching Ebola cases pop up in nigeria (my flight routes through Abuja).

Sid and 7up, Sid and Pepsi. Mmm.

In addition to that our local supermarket had a “baking” section. Hop flavoured malt extract, sugar, yeast. Boil up, put in plastic bin and sit on the balcony to ferment. One day we accidentally tipped the whole lot down the side of the apartment block. That caused some panic.

went last year, for a day. had a potential job lead out there so I was keen to check it out. This was Riyadh. 24 hrs was enough. you know it’s bad when you get back to Dubai and think ‘thank god I’m back in the real world.’

I don’t overly struggle with moral work decisions but I did think, do I really want to work, even at a once or twice removed level, for the Saudi state.

It depends on what you want out of it. I have friends who are out there now and they are making the most of it. His wife can cope with the restrictions placed upon her (not driving, covering up etc etc) but I know women who couldn’t cope with that aspect.
Compound life is a small bubble and you have to grit your teeth and get on with living in a very local village for very local people, behind a fence.
Many go out there with a 5 year plan but get sucked into the expat lifestyle. If you have a plan and can stick to it, it can be a winner. You will be taking those 5 years out of your life to do it.
The bigger the city, the bigger and more fervent the religious police force.

One day we accidentally tipped the whole lot down the side of the apartment block. That caused some panic.

I’ll bet! 🙂

I don’t overly struggle with moral work decisions but I did think, do I really want to work, even at a once or twice removed level, for the Saudi state.

There’s that issue too.

Thanks for the replies. I’m actually quite relieved at how shit it sounds, makes it a non starter. I don’t really fancy it at all, so was a bit worried people might say “it’s not as bad as you’d think!” and then i’d be faced with a dilemma.

I can understand why people go though…the saudi state seems to keep throwing more money at something until it sticks.

This was Riyadh.

It would be based in Riyadh, which as fas as I can gather, isn’t the best place to be!

I had a mate who was in Bahrain for a while. He enjoyed it but resigned after being asked to do something illegal.
Then all the trouble kicked off – this was 2010/11 – and it was bad enough that they decided to get the family out for their own safety. He had 5 month old daughter who at that point didn’t have a passport and they couldn’t get any response from the Embassy. To say the process of getting the family safely out was stressful to say the least. He was posting photos of tanks on the streets on Facebook.

I also remember going to the supermarket with his wife and she pointed out that in Saudi that would be illegal – woman out without male family chaperone.

Why do you think the ex-pat salaries are so high? If life out there was great, that wouldn’t be necessary…

I almost ended up in Abu Dhabi this winter, consensus was “it’s not as bad as Saudi” and I still wasn’t looking foreward to it.

Abu Dhabi is like vegas compared to Saudi.

Some things to find out before you think about the offer…

Who will hold you passport while you are in the country? If it is a big state owned company then it is quite likely they will keep it in their possession and you will need to apply for permission to leave.

As a non Saudi outside of the compound you pretty much have no rights and the police are not so tollerant… They also don’t like Skype or any VOIP communications so watch out for that.

My experience is with people in Oil and Gas but Saudi is well know as a relationship killer. If you take family there they can’t leave the compound and if you don’t you will probably be working 7 days a week. Mind you I work in the US and still work 6, 6am to 9pm days….

All depends on the offer really and what the job they are offering you is. As a guide I would expect 2x the UK salary as a base plus a 60% plus hardship coefficient for being in Saudi. I would also want this tax free with accomodation and phone provided. As a reference for you a friend with 8 years Oil and Gas is just moving across for $95k basic plus the 60% bump. Still after 5 years he will probably have 3 houses mostly paid for…

I don’t mean to thread hijack, but I didn’t think it warranted starting another.

vintagewino – Member
Abu Dhabi is like vegas compared to Saudi.

I’m considering Dubai at the moment for 2 years to get a house deposit together. The salary is double the UK for essentially the same job and a mate that lives there has nothing but good things to say… all be it the mtb is non-existent.

What’s the catch?

I’ve been to Riyadh a couple of times in the last 2 years for week long business trips. Quite an experience and no amount of money could be enough for me to live there for any length of time. Life’s too short.

Life could be pretty short in Riyadh too if you have to spend much time on the roads there.

As for Dubai… if you are in your 20s and single I’d be all over it like a bad rash. Very bling obviously, lots of showing off and swanky bars, excessive consumption, bad traffic and it’s totally flat but it would be lots of fun at the appropriate stage in one’s life I think.

Dubai’s totally different from Saudi.

Peterfile: I think I’m in the same industry as you. At a recent conference with a couple of hundred people, the guy from our Riyadh office stood up a propos of nothing and said “I just want to say if anyone wants to work in Riyadh, please come and see me after and we’ll sign you up”. I suspect there’s probably a good reason why he was so desperate to hire people in that manner.

I used to go to Saudi a lot but that was twenty years ago so it must have changed a bit since then…

My mate is out there now working in power generation and has been for the last 2 years, wife and 3 kids back home and he flies back every couple of months or so. The family at home are well provided for (Range Rooney, big house, horse riding blah blah)and he lives at home “virtually” via Facetime. Ex pat life aint that bad according to him once you get in with the right crowd, He’s in Qurayyah, regularly shoots in to Bahrain for 5* and to get p**sed. Plays some golf, gym, gets all the UK premiership games on TV etc etc… 6 figure salary tax free. Another couple of years he’ll be done.
As for choosing Nigeria over Saudi, no you wouldn’t, I’ve worked there and it’s f***ing mental, exciting at times but reckon I’d be dead within 2 years…

10 quid says his wife is being nailed by another bloke though.

I had a three day spell out there at the end of last year and it was the worst three days of my life that I can remember.

I wouldn’t work out there for anything less than lottery win levels of money.

Good luck!

Ahhh Saudi, the only place that there are fights not to go to when we have to do client visits…

I have a friend working there at the moment – and has been for the past year or so. Tends to work on a rota of 2 weeks in Saudi and a week at home. It took a bit of adjustment and trying to get to grips with the culture and attitudes. He actually quite likes it out there but there are definitely parts of the country that are much more strict from the religious police perspective. You really need to be careful if you end up anywhere near Mecca (they had first hand sight of a similar situation to the one that BoardinBob highlighted) as they get very, very picky.

I believe you also only get visa’s for 30 day stints and you have to keep leaving the country to show breaks in your time, which can be a bit of a faff. And don’t expect to be having any alcohol any time soon. If you can live without alcohol easily then that should not be a problem.

I guess some of it comes down to what sort of tea you will be working with and whether you are part of a larger team comprised of expats who you can get on with. If so, then you ay well be able to make a go of it an add an interesting experience to your life. If, on the other hand, you are flying solo and working directly with the Saudis then I would think very, very carefully about it.

would you say a 3-5 year stint is crazy

Crazy doesn’t come close.

I worked on a project for a state-owned non-oil sector Saudi company based in Riyadh. Everything about it was unpleasant; the work environment, the living environment, the ex-pat politics etc.

I travel and work in lots of funny places; many of them I wouldn’t rush to spend long periods of time in, but only one place would I actively seek to avoid – to the point of suggesting our company turns down work there.

As for the question someone asked about Dubai… well, it’s better than Riyadh. It’s morally bankrupt, but that may or may not be a problem to you. Most of what was presented above as the potential positives for a young single person are probably illegal in the strict sense of the law, but may be tolerated – only you have no way of knowing when someone will stop tolerating you (or anyone else) doing them.

I’ve only been to Abu Dhabi briefly. Everyone (ex-pat) who lives there says that it’s really boring and quiet compared to Dubai – which may be taken as a +ve or -ve.

I’m considering Dubai at the moment for 2 years to get a house deposit together. The salary is double the UK for essentially the same job and a mate that lives there has nothing but good things to say… all be it the mtb is non-existent.

Dubai has quite an MTB scene, Oman has big mountains and is only and hours drive so they tend to go out very early morning (4-5am) till 10-11 ish.

TBH I’d have gone to Dubai after doing the research, Abu Dhabi seems like a not too close second (if we’re ranking on a scale between Dubai and Saudi). Apparenlty A-D is a bit more ‘real’, there are some historical buildings, Dubai really was less than a fishing village before the oil.

Was chatting with an Expat in Asia a couple of months back. When he decided to go Expat he looked at Saudi etc. but turned it down due to the terror threats, the fact his wife would be stuck in the compound/not allowed out etc. add in the fact that women have no rights there so not a good place for a family.

The salary is double the UK for essentially the same job and a mate that lives there has nothing but good things to say

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/11/05/want-to-move-abroad-this-map-shows-the-best-and-worst-countries-to-be-an-expatriate/
Also some of the numbers being quoted 2x UK salary is a cheap offer. People we were talking to were suggesting 4x with accommodation paid for, schools, healthcare and the rest.

“As for choosing Nigeria over Saudi, no you wouldn’t, I’ve worked there and it’s f***ing mental, exciting at times but reckon I’d be dead within 2 years…”

depends where you worked, in what field and when – agree i wouldnt go anywhere northern territory or swamp barges(but we are not allowed to anyway) but id quite happily work in lagos or PH if i needed the money.

But we had a good team , good locals, good compound(with decent expats – if they exist) and strict expat lead security management. or at least the last 3 summers ive been out there we have – i believe things have changed now for the worse due to cost cutting and complacency but i have not been out this year to experiance it.

My mates in the middle of a 6 week hitch in saudi at the moment – hes going up the wall as we speak.

Wow! This is certainly eye opening! It’s one of the few places in the ME that I’ve never been or worked in and know nothing about it really, so this is really really helpful. Helping confirm my fears.

Not going near it with a barge pole 🙂

Also some of the numbers being quoted 2x UK salary is a cheap offer. People we were talking to were suggesting 4x with accommodation paid for, schools, healthcare and the rest.

The works out as house in good compound, staff (not sure what this entails but I think it’s a driver), schools if needed, healthcare, 5 lots of flights home each year ….plus £225k tax free. Can’t think of much I could spend it on in Saudi so I’d be putting most of that in the bank….hence the original interest…coming home after 5 years with over a million to show for it is at least a bit tempting.

Doubt I’d last 5 weeks, never mind 5 years by the sounds of things though.

Wonder if they’d let me do it by skype 🙂

“The family at home are well provided for (Range Rooney, big house, horse riding blah blah)”

ah the classic EX pat trap.

live up to the big money – spend it all and its much harder to break the cycle till it rips you apart……

You can usually spot them a mile away at the bar – they are the ones with their phone out showing all the stuff they have sitting at home – while they work in shit holes- they are also usually divorced 2 or 3 times.

usually have some nice toys though.

usually have some nice toys though.

Until the toys get bored and find a new one. Watching the Indonesian girls circling for slightly overweight and not that easy on the eye westerners as they could string them out for longer was a bit scary.

Same approach as some FIFO guys I’ve met do it with a goal and a plan then get out. It is possible to spend all of the money if you’re not careful.

A couple of people I worked with went to Saudi to work for BAE. I had the chance but applied the same bargepole solution you’ve sensibly used!

Closest I’d go is UAE, but the ex-pat money isn’t there like it is in SA and the costs are high. Enough people I worked with who went out there to earn some money and pay off the mortgage have overstayed their original 3 year plans by quite a bit due to an inability to live like monks in a land of (consumerist) riches.

Oh, and my parents neighbours spent 20 years out there. He was at KPMG and left quick sharp when terrorists* attacked their office and murdered his best friend (and dragged his body through the streets attached to the back of a pickup…).

*or whoever

trail rat – you’re bang on with this though :
live up to the big money – spend it all and its much harder to break the cycle till it rips you apart……

His Mrs loves him out there (coz of all the trappings), he makes do but feels he’s doing the “right thing” for the future lol. From talking to him it aint that bad though…
Going back to Nigeria, personally I loved it in a sick way. I’ve had some good trips there in the past 2 years, near mugging last year and a machine gun pointed at my head was a bit of an eye-opener though on the last visit. Was working alongside some Syrian guys that were literally above the law, the boss had a bomb-proof G-Wagon. Those women there are far too tempting too so 2 weeks at a time is enough for me not to cave in lol

OP I have been visiting Saudi for business for 25 years mostly Jeddah and Riyadh. I know a number of people well who have worked there, if you send me an email (in profile) I will put you in touch.

Firstly 3-5 years. Most people sign up for 2 year contracts, to do so for longer is very unusual. Be very careful about signing up for 5 years and thinking you can get out of the contract sooner if you don’t like it.

You live there inside a European compound so it’s a bit more relaxed but it can and will feel like a prison at some stage.

It is normal for your employer to retain your passport, this means you cannot travel without their permission.

In the past it has been very unsafe, one friend of mine was in his compound when it was attacked by a suicide bomber in a truck. I have also met the BBC journalist John Gardiner, you will see him on TV, he described how was paralyzed from the waist down after being shot waiting at a cash machine (ATM), he was accompanied by Saudi official security but that made no difference. I have made a few trips where we have been accompanied by security and searched for weapons in every building we visited. This personally makes me feel less safe.

In my experience people go to Saudi for a short stint and for the money with the potential to get valuable experience in order to boost their careers.

The rich is Saudi are very rich but there is huge poverty in the country too. We are starting to hear stories linking ISIS with Saudi and they are on the border with Iraq.

EDIT: By the way another mate of mine who works on the underground (MRT) in Singapore was approached about a big Riyadh job. I imagine this might be the same project