Am I destined to use tubes? « Singletrack Forum

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Am I destined to use tubes?

31 posts & 25 voices | Started 1 year ago by gcaster | Latest reply from Quirrel

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gcaster - Member

My attempted tubeless conversion is driving me nuts!
I've got my rim all sealed with a valve in place but the tyre won't sit in it's bead and it's doing my bloody head in!

I took it to the garage to use a compressor and tried for ages to get my tyres inflated but to no avail - the bead just didn't seem to want to sit in the rim! I had soapy water on them and all I got was bubbles coming from between the rim and tyre all the way round, no popping noise of the bead seating. I didn't have the sealant in as I was trying to make sure the bead would seat before wasting it. I don't see how sealant could have helped in any way because as soon as I took the compressor off the air would all come out (reasonably quickly) and the beads drop away from the rim edge.

I'm trying to put wire bead, single ply High Rollers onto 317s. Is it destined not to work?

Posted 1 year ago #
rs - Member

I'm no expert as i'm still running tubes and have no real interest in going tubeless but don't you think sealant would help it seal

Posted 1 year ago #
gcaster - Member

The sealant would need to interact between the rim and the tyre. This would require the tyre to sit against the rim after inflation in order for me to shake the sealant into the gaps. Unfortunately it doesn't, the tyre just comes away from the rim so the sealant would go everywhere!

Posted 1 year ago #
thejesmonddingo - Member

You're right,sealant won't help seat the bead on the rim.Look on here http://www.notubes.com/support.php for hints.What tyre is it? Some just won't have it.
Ian

Posted 1 year ago #
Quirrel - Member

Are you squeezing the tire in where the valve is? That was the ticket for succesfull tubelessness for me.

Posted 1 year ago #
trout - Member

This may work
but please video it for us

Posted 1 year ago #
spooky_b329 - Member

Are using one of the electronic tyre inflators? They are a bit weedy, you want a proper old fashioned airline with the gauge that is always unreadable due to condensation/dirt.

Agree that using sealant at this stage will just be a waste and messy. If the tyres are new, inflate them using tubes for a few hours as it will help them hold their shape when tubeless.

Posted 1 year ago #
retro83 - Member

trout - Member
This may work
but please video it for us

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI38RZ2f6Ls&feature=related

Posted 1 year ago #
uplink - Member

If you're just standing there with the air line on the tyre hoping that it'll just inflate - it may do
But I always find that they go up much easier if you work the tyre whilst inflating it, if the air is rushing out when you're trying to inflate it, it'll continue to do so until something changes.
Squeeze the tyre, bounce it up and down - get active with it

Posted 1 year ago #
MisterCrud - Member

Why don't you just pop some tubes in? They don't weigh much. The bike will ride the same.

Posted 1 year ago #
Waderider - Member

Tubeless for feckless early adopters and fashion victims. Debatable performance gains for worthless faff and longer trailside repair times when required.

Biopace of the noughties.

Posted 1 year ago #
namastebuzz - Member

Tubeless for feckless early adopters and fashion victims. Debatable performance gains for worthless faff and longer trailside repair times when required.

Biopace of the noughties.

I had been wondering about this tubeless malarkey - I think you've helped make my mind up

Posted 1 year ago #
FuzzyWuzzy - Member

Tubeless works fine for me, using standard tyres can sometimes be a PITA to get sealed though, I'd swap that High Roller for something tubeless ready. Not had a puncture in two years since going tubeless...

Posted 1 year ago #
JimSu - Member

disagree only 1 flat riding 2 1/2 years tubeless. Its worth making it work. Garage compressor low flow high pressure no use.

also disagree re sealant use now and if not work try applying straight PVA (ex builders merchant tub) to edge of tyre and rim. With this have put very baggy speed blasters onto rims.

Posted 1 year ago #
13thfloormonk - Member

Sounds like the rim needs to be 'built up' a little with tape or something. the effect should be to make the tyre much tighter on the rim, taking up the spare space between the bed of the rim and the bead, which is the gap that the air is pouring out of.

Don't listen to the naysayers, tubeless was a revelation when I fitted it, and made a massive difference to my riding. That said, now that my riding's 'improved' I seem to be finding the limit of what tubeless can do, getting a bit aggro in corners is playing hell with my rear UST setup

Posted 1 year ago #
stumpy01 - Member

Waderider - Member
Tubeless for feckless early adopters and fashion victims. Debatable performance gains for worthless faff and longer trailside repair times when required.

Biopace of the noughties.

Ha ha - what a load of cak. I did a fairly bodged tubeless conversion before heading out to Spain a couple of weeks ago as I was fed up with getting 2+ punctures/day over there from the thorns.
I used the tyres & rims that came with my bike, lined the rims with electrical tape & got some valves. The tyres went up with a track pump & no sealant, first time (Spesh 2Bliss tyres). I then whacked some Stan's sealant in.

I had a couple of problems with the front tyre while over there, as it is very slack on the rim. But, I had no 'flats' at all and it was so nice not to have that nagging thought in your mind all the time that a puncture is just round the corner.

Posted 1 year ago #
GW - Member

yeah, just like it's nice to know if you glance a rock with the front tyre it'll quite likely burp half it's pressure and the next corner you hit it'll probably roll off the rim.

Posted 1 year ago #
grumm - Member

Don't think 317s are meant to be very good for tubeless - bit narrow.

Posted 1 year ago #
stumpy01 - Member

GW - Member
yeah, just like it's nice to know if you glance a rock with the front tyre it'll quite likely burp half it's pressure and the next corner you hit it'll probably roll off the rim.

Yeah - there is that, and that was one of the problems I had. But I think it was my own fault. The front tyre pressure had dropped a bit after a couple of thorns went in it and I should have topped it up, but couldn't be bothered. I thought it would be OK. Going over a steeply cambered rock, the tyre burped and I ended up on my arse.
But, I put that down to my lack of experience with tubeless and not recognising that the front tyre was at an unsuitably low pressure. As mentioned above, the front is also very slack and from what i have read this also contributes, so a tighter fitting tyre should help.

Even after that fall though on the first day, I didn't actually think about that being a problem again for the duration of the holiday, whereas I did wake up every morning and was pleased to find after a quick inspection of the bike that my tyres had remained inflated overnight.

Posted 1 year ago #
Waderider - Member

Opinions are grand. What's right is right for me. You can keep tubeless from my personal experience.

Posted 1 year ago #
Onzadog - Member

How have you sealed the 317 rim? YOu say sealed and valve. Are you using tape to seal the rim? The 317 doesn't have the correct profile for tubeless so a stans rim strip would help the problem a lot. I've found things seal really well with a 317 and rim strip. It's such a small rim that it make everything a very tight fit. I even had to soap the rim stip to get in into the rim well properly.

Posted 1 year ago #
Ro5ey - Member

I had problems trying to get maxxis advantage to seal onto mavic crossrides (ghetto... bmx inner tube method) using soap and water. I then read on here somewhere to use neat wash machine liquid... worked a treat.. Using just a track pump as well.

Posted 1 year ago #
robdob - Member

No use for me if you can't run low pressures. I generally run 25-30psi max, rarely get punctures. People say tubeless is the best thing ever but why do I hear about problems like these all the time?

This "burping". Does it happen when riding normally with low pressures or only when you fall off or crash?

Posted 1 year ago #
stumpy01 - Member

This "burping". Does it happen when riding normally with low pressures or only when you fall off or crash?

I had it happen when riding normally. The pressure in the tyre had dropped, but we were virtually done with the days riding so i carried on, rahter than topping the pressure up. Over a steeply cambered rock, I am guessing the side loading of riding on a sideways sloping surface pulled the tyre away from the rim. But, this tyre is very slack on the rim, so I think is the main contributor to the problem. The tyre doesn't need levers to fit and literally goes onto the rim with no 'thumb' effort at all.

Most of the problems I read of are from people like me who are effectively bodging a cheap solution with existing bits of kit. I wanted to try it out for a while and see how I get on before spending more money on a 'proper' solution.

Posted 1 year ago #
MisterT - Member

it's bloody easy to setup once you know the basics.

1) Unless you are using tubless specific rims, you often need an extra layer of rim tape under between the rim and rubber rim strip. this is what will make the tyre seal enough to get it inflated.

2) soap suds, generously applied around the rim/tyre beading will aid quick seating and ease the inflation (plus show if/where there are any leaks)

3) if the tyres don't inflate with ease, then try another layer of rim tape.

4) don't use oversized tyres on narrow rims (e.g. mavic 717's with 2.3" tyres = stupid combo and won't work) - so wide rims required for wide tyres. - otherwise it won't seat proiperly, but more importantly it won't ride well (will squirm all over the place)

Posted 1 year ago #
PJM1974 - Member

I have to echo Mister T's comments, there is a knack to getting it right.

I've done quite a few ghetto and Stan's conversations, sometimes they seal first time with a track pump, others I'll be outside half the night with a compressor keeping the neighbours awake.

Having said that, I did seat a 2.3 Small Block Eight on a 717!

Posted 1 year ago #
david moyes is my dad - Member

ill be honest everyone who i know who has tried these conversions have had no success.
i do not see the point on bodging this idea.

if like me you want tubeless do it the intended way & go for ust rims & tyres.

i watched a video of a guy who used more tube to try to seal the rim it was hideous

Posted 1 year ago #
foxyrider - Member

Did a basic article here which may help?

http://www.cyclistno1.co.uk/features/maintenance/stans-no-tubes-guide.htm

Posted 1 year ago #
PJM1974 - Member

Stans/Joes rimstrips are your friends...

...although a bodged 20" tube is perfect for Redneck Tubeless, with careful use of a stanley knife you can hide the ragged edge of the tube quite successfully.

I find that my tubeless conversions - while not perfect - have paid for themselves many times over and have been largely hassle free. The only low points were a 5mm flint gouge out of a well worn SB8 and me slipping with a stanley knife and killing a brand new Nevegal.

Posted 1 year ago #
kiwijohn - Member

UST = First time, every time.
Run them on the race HT, with Stans in the back, just in case. Can't be arsed with ghetto malarkey & just use tubes on the other bikes.

Posted 1 year ago #
Quirrel - Member

I managed it with a track pump.

I was fitting Geax Barro Mountain Rigid though, which are a bit tight getting on, I squeezed the end flat where the valve is and pumped hard a couple of times and it beaded instantly.

Posted 1 year ago #