there has been a slew of new "4x" sus bikes brought out recently and i know the mag has a test coming up too but, does anyone who has one actually race 4x?

or is it because its " the best trail entre bike ever"

discuss…………

I think 4x bikes are a good mix between long travel HT and FS as they generally have under 4" at the back and can take forks with a decent amount of travel. They are small and snappy (they need to be) so can be chucked around easily and make (in theory) great blast around the woods bikes. Good on jumps and drops and singletrack where a HT can chuck you around too much and a LT FS just soaks it up. I dont have a 4x bike but would love one.

I experimented with shorter shocks on my old enduro to make it slacker and more fun in the woods and am considering doing the same with my pitch.

because its " the best trail entre bike ever"

But mine isn't a "proper" 4X bike (Blur 4X)

Wot I_Ache said – they rock!! Tried to wean myself off and go longer travel but it's not for me. I just love the way my Tazer zips round corners 😀

I think it's also a development of how people ride. Classic XC in the hills isn't for everyone so the woods razzers and trail centre hackers like a bike that's nimble, a bit of cush but not too much to take away the fun, but doesn't have the geometry of a small XC bike. My riding these days is much more "squeeze in 2 hours in the local woods" which is more like sessioning in a way, you know, looping round to take in a few DH sections so a 4X bike could be just the ticket.

I'm getting excited about the mag reviews…

As I_Ache said. They certainly aren't being used for 4x much, almost everyone still rides hardtails.

Maybe they need a new name/branding…

Hardcore short-travel full-sus?

bleh! Ideas on a postcard.

My twopenceworth. I think there is a real market (certainly in the UK) for short travel, slack, burly bikes which can still be pedalled all day. We seem to do well at the 'hardcore hardtail', so why not a similar themed 4" travel full-suss?

I'd love something strong enough to jump, but slack and stable enough for mini DH, long enough in the top tube and seatpost (i.e. continous) to sit and pedal but with only 4" of travel. The Blur 4X and the Prophet (ok its a bit more than 4" travel) were close, but no longer exist…

There are loads of 6" options, but not many 4" ones, particularly not for those of us who are on the lanky side.

transition bottle rocket springs to mind as that type of bike, 5 at the back and pretty much anything up front, i think my next bike will be that sort of bike too.

Bottle Rocket quite heavy at nearly 8lb without the shock though?

I thought hardcore 4" full suss was the latest big thing in bike design?

i put up a post on this last week, I think that for us shorties it would make a very capable all day bike as well but they dont seem to make an equivalent for the taller people yet! I have a tracer but would like a short travel full susser, mamadirt put a pic of her new tazer last week and I am seriously thinking of that type of thing for myself. Mamadirt, lets see that bike again.

OK, name one example of a strong (jump strong) 4" travel bike with at least a 23.5" top tube, 17" continuous seat tube, a head angle slacker than 67.5 degrees (without running overly long forks), capable of running a front mech which could be built to around 32lbs.

4X full-sussers are ace.

They do need a new "genre name" though! 🙂

Don't Orange make one?

For me it's because 6"+ is far too much travel for the bike to ride how I like (I used to downhill on a hardtail with 4" up front and ride a lot of BMX), but most 4" frames are lightweight XC machines and not strong enough for taking a thrashing and a few crashes, this seems the perfect solution for me, like a mini-dh set up!

Don't Orange make one?

What, the ST4? Wouldn't fancy getting too much air on one of those. Or do you mean the Blood, but you do need to run a 6" fork to make the geo work, but yeah, it's close.

OK, name one example of a strong (jump strong) 4" travel bike with at least a 23.5" top tube, 17" continuous seat tube, a head angle slacker than 67.5 degrees (without running overly long forks), capable of running a front mech which could be built to around 32lbs.

The Chumba XCL with the new swing link is similar to what you describe.

i just built mine today. i rode one last weekend, loved it, made me smile so i thought…. why not.

does it really matter what you use it for?

oh and its well sweet.

I would like something along these lines but there isn't a lot out there if you're 6 foot plus. There are plenty of hardtails around with slack head angles and steep seat angles. Dirt have done a few reviews of different bikes for this kind of use, they beefed up a Rush and ran a Roscoe with loads of sag on the rear.

Si wrote "The Chumba XCL with the new swing link is similar to what you describe"

Si what is the new swing link?

Does anyone here know where I can get the rush review from dirt?

Mamadirt, lets see that bike again.

Oh, go on then 😉

OK, name one example of a strong (jump strong) 4" travel bike with at least a 23.5" top tube, 17" continuous seat tube, a head angle slacker than 67.5 degrees (without running overly long forks), capable of running a front mech which could be built to around 32lbs.

Front mech aside – have a look at the Kona Cowan DS – I ran mine with 100mm Vanillas and then 130mm Marz Drop Offs. There are a few deals on larger sizes around at the mo – have a look here.

I experimented with shorter shocks on my old enduro to make it slacker and more fun in the woods and am considering doing the same with my pitch.

The bridge between the seatstays will hit the seat tube on your Pitch if you fit a shorter eye-to-eye shock. It comes pretty damn close with the stock shock.

I,V been riding longer than most,had my hardtails and my big travs etc.now ended up on my lovely little morewood ndiza.by far the most fun bike i,v had,sprints up rooty tooty hills like a little hardtail,hell, i,v even "won' the village sign sprint on the little darling ,but has enough cush for lobbing it off drops an the like. well recomended. mind you now i,v seen watsisnames tazer ,maybe time to rummage through the assorted credit cards……

Si what is the new swing link?

There is a new swing link available that will lower the BB by about 1/4 inch and make the HA about 66.5. It is best run with a coil shock due to the leverage, but imo would be a great shortish travel FS for the UK 🙂

i love mine to bits. i like the way its purely chuckable/tweakable yet not harsh like a hardtail.

To the point that i'm going to ditch my hardtail, i just much prefer the control in a full sus.

Pegglet – if you sell the Ndiza let me know, mmm'K?

The Blur 4x isnt a proper 4x but I do feel its ultimate do-it-all frame.

Its one of those frames that as soon as you throw your leg over for the first time, no matter how wrong the fork length etc is, it feels 'right'

i have to say i think the blur 4X is probably the best do it all frame i've riden. Even though, the one i rode was too big for me on paper it still rode mint, instantly confidence inspiring

Proper 4x bikes are hardtails, not that many race on full suspension bikes (UK 4x). A good 4x bike is very responsive to inputs and very easy to manual, this often results in a bike that isn't suitable for other uses. My 4x bike feels pretty dam daft outside of jumps and 4x tracks.

Yes there are exceptions to this but I guarantee you'd not want to ride an average race bike down technical terrain without serious modifications and tyre changes.

The UCI have been doing their hardest to up the anti on world cup tracks to suit fs 4x bikes ( no doubt given their current habit of trousering up to manufacturers needs rather than the riders), however the winningest of riders more often than not stick like glue to their hard tails as they are more than sufficient for 4x. UK 4x scene remains strongly driven by hard tails and it ensures that at grass roots level racing remains a cheap sport unlike the ongoing trend with downhill.

No doubt the bike manufacturers left with a warehouse full of unsold 4x FS bikes will be massaging the media to encourage any stories to create a new market to convert them to cash and there are riders longing to be sucked into the next post enduro hype. Although low they are often rather too long to be an ideal bike for smaller riders. I have though seen many successfully modified for women seeking a more durable mid range fs bike

because they're great 🙂 my old Blur 4X was ace.

perhaps SC will start building something similar again – they were definitely ahead of the game and then pulled out just as this trend was getting going…

Benji Haworth

4X full-sussers are ace.

They do need a new "genre name" though!

Can you imagine? I am sensing a bit of skepticism already but if they weren't based on an existing style of bike/discipline people would be up in arms claiming it was all just a cynical excercise by the bike industry to seperate us from our hard earned cash.

I quite like the look of this.

I've tried various demos/hires on some 5" travel trail/XC bikes, orange 5, intense 5.5, comencal meta 5 and didn't really get on with any of them. Something like a so called 4X bike, a punishment taking short travel bike with short chainstays and medium to slackish HA, might be a laugh.

I've no idea where the money might come from to indulge this whim mind.

A good 4x bike is very responsive to inputs and very easy to manual, this often results in a bike that isn't suitable for other uses. My 4x bike feels pretty dam daft outside of jumps and 4x tracks.

agree with solamanda, mine is awesome one proper 4X tracks, DJ type stuff, even some trail centres where you can push to a good descent, and even some street type stuff too, due to its adjustable wheel base, slackness, short travel, and mega hard spring. nice and chuckable easy to manual super fast rolling.

Although, try and ride up anything and it'll kill you before you reach the top unless your a proper diddy person where you can get away with the slack seat angle.

after my recent alps experience i too was left thinking something short and compact like my Alpine bu with more 'give' at the back would be ideal.

i convinced my mate he doesn't need 6" out back to ride what i consider to be normal XC riding. he subsequently shortened the travel on the frame to 4.25" and keeps banging on about how much more 'feel' and 'control' he has.

i like the look of the Liteville 301 in it's shorter chainstay incarnation offering 115mm on the back and upto 160mm on the front. 1850€ for frame-shock only is a bit much though.

Cotic Hemlock

I hope they do bring the Blur4x back but not as a proper 4x – keep it all the same but give it a different name and colours. Say the "Santa Cruz freestyle" (or something better of course)

I'm watching these developments with interest. As has been said; most 4" travel full-suss bikes are XC oriented which means the geometry is wrong and they are too weak for the kind of riding I like to do – hence I spend most of my time riding a big forked hardtail. I do have a 6-7" travel beast bike which is ace for the mountains but overkill for the forest.

Something between the two would be good… if that happens to be called a "4X" then so be it… I don't care what you call it as long as it's fun.