Podcast 2025 ep5 : The perfect Jacket is Bonkers Cheap edition

[Music]

hello welcome to this week's single track World podcast I'm Hannah Dobson managing editor and here we have

Benjamin James howth technical editor okay and in the background I am

AI possibly causing disruption we have Archbold dog Archie bald the dog I don't

know is a surname IL legally howth I don't know dog there's no actually we do

have paperwork it's a receipt he out of warranty now I'm

afraid there we go what should talk about this week well speaking of warranties ebike reliability that was

perfect and unint seg well done Benjamin thanks so you were looking uh last week

at how reliable are ebikes we did a survey in October that was deliberately

open-ended in terms of a non leading it was an open field where you

could answer questions that were quite open so it took a long time to get through but it was more interesting and

more relevant and more accurately than giving people a set one one two three answers okay so it took a while to get

through and what did you find out uh everything everyone already

knows but it's good to know these things I thought the reliability was not as bad

as I thought it's about 36% was it go wrong like ebike specific have to go

back to the shoper wrong okay not just like you punctured all the usual bike

problems so it was 30 % went wrong what were you were expecting then

75 okay percent on the basis of what

being alive and noticing okay just even even the periods

we have ebikes which are not like as long as owning them are we is it but we're trying to keep hold them for a

fair amount of time I'd say we probably have an ebike for on average six weeks

and I think one out of four go wrong okay I've got

trying to think how many I'll name names cuz see it's not a secret is it so I

think there a YT decoy SN that's I've gotten the test at the moment that went

wrong gone back and come back uh and the ow

DJI all singing all dancing hype machine has gone wrong need a speed sensor

apparently new one and I think that's probably

it yeah so that's more than half of the that's 2/3

of onestly okay so the common factor here is you this could be something to do

with operator error or how you use them

or don't care I think they're probably they're probably is a thing but it's

more like if you are a fair weather Green lanest you're probably all

right with an ebike just going off what people have said in the replies you can kind of either they tell you or you can

infer certain things like if you really look after your stuff you probably won't have as many

problems but if you are a normal human mountain biker in the UK mhm um You

probably it's going to go back to the shop at some point more likely than not so is that that ebikes are being treated

in the same way that mountain bikes are treated and that actually they need a little bit more TLC than

that um or it's ebikes are possibly not fit for

purpose but can they be the other thing that came through as well is no one

regrets getting an ebike say that at all they just wish and even they don't mind

them going wrong it seems to be it's how long it takes them to get back on the road or Offroad whatever once it's gone

wrong right and that's what creates the bad vibes and the you can't go and ride

when you wanted to yeah or you don't get it back for six weeks or something like that which is not so

good okay um did your survey highlight any particular differences in

manufacturers yes and no not really in terms of reliability to any uh

statable thing I think statistically evid no Shimano and

I forgot the word not statistically significant that's the word yeah um they

were all not amazing and but what I would say is when

I asked what motor have you ruled out or what motor you thinking of looking

out I'm going through that at the moment actually that also that was we did a

survey for people who are e bik curious who have not bought an ebike but they're thinking of getting one I ask them what

sort and what battery or mower they might be interested in people want Bosch

and if people have something that if there if there's a motor brand that they

don't like the sound of it Shimano and do you have any insight as to why

because the warranties have taken an awful long time to get sorted out okay

and thus people have been very more vocal on the internet about shimano's

going wrong because they're more peed off their bike is out of action for or

has been out of action for longer so there's more noise okay about Shimano and am I right

in thinking that Shimano tends to be more of a whole new motor swap out thing

rather than a bit of a motor and whereas Bosch is like well swap bits and pieces

don't really have that data but when I've had sent things back it's been whole new motor for All Brands right

which I think is a very canny way of doing it and I think probably it's Shimano trying not to replace a whole motor that's the problem whereas if you

speak to particularly specialized um how arguably specialized

got a big foot in the door with the eite world and now probably by far the biggest brand of

people who own ebags certainly in the UK I think um there was like a no questions ass right stick a new motor in it get

them back on the road quick right A very wise thing to do underneath and I think

they also do a Mala motor in the new SL to okay so much of a muchness in terms

of performance it's the aftermarket customer support thing that

and whether that's still the case I don't know because when I've looked at looking at how long they've had that

ebike for um I would say there's not very

many that's ex thing to divy down him really it's like I think it I think Shimano and UK Shimano probably an awful

lot better at dealing with the issues that they get now right they've improved

a bit Yeah was also I think the ep81 rather than ep8 blood blah I before that

was be more problematic and have you got any experience of going into an actual bike

shop with your broken ebikes yes but no because I always go in

there having said having got it sorted out that [Music]

um uh like specialized I've said to specializers who I deal with for example

for the latest one that went back to a shop this has gone wrong what you going to do with it in sad like can take it to

this back shop that's nearest your post code or they are expecting you take it in so yes and no right I guess I've I'm

similar I've spoken to Bosch but then took it to a local ebike service center

now kind of that interestingly they don't sell bikes they just yeah fix

bikes but particularly e bikes so they deal with Shimano and Bosch it's it's a

bit like taking your car to the the garage and they PL they plug the iPad or

whatever it is into your bike and it just uploads it all and certainly the

Bosch setup because it was a Bosch motor that I was taking in um was very slick

it it sort of logs it all straight through and sends emails and yeah all

that not that part of it yeah um I don't know why anyone else the other ones might be like that I don't know but I

guess it does raise the thing of having a good local bike shop or a service center right like cuz it's not simple to

post an ebike battery um with cers that's a bit of a

fath I would think it's it's not really a bicycle problem is it no it's a so you

have to treat it that's it's don't know what it's like really

it's almost like when your car goes wrong or something it's like I can't get the part it's very similar to that and

you can't drive for a while and you have to go what I'm going to do your whole life goes complicated so yeah keep you

keep your old bike spare bike oh okay that's your tip right well I think it's

worth checking out who you've got locally what kind of support you might get um even if you buy online you you

might end up needing your local shop yeah cuz take the example of the spe that's the only most recent one I've

been dealing with I mean I could have bought it from a specialized dealer even

online or something or even specialize direct and got it to my house they would have still sent me to the bike shop nearest them because then the bike shop

and specialized will have the deal won't they specialize will reimburse or pay for the workshop time and things like

that well on a sort of related note it's just one segue after another this week

there's some product news about intra Drive which is an

8speed gearbox and motor all in one

system that is being made in the UK and they've just got to the stage of making

the sort of pilot production so it's not yeah it's not prototype level it's like

the first sort of production type Motors that will go out to bike brands so um

and we think this is looking quite interesting don't we it's been a long time coming hasn't

it and I've not I forgot it was 8 speed actually so I don't know an awful lot

well about intr I think Scott Edinburgh or something being made in Edinburgh or near Edinburgh um and so I think there's

two things that's particularly interesting about it one is they've designed it to be repairable so they've

set out okay that it will be repairable and the other is that they've designed

it to fit a Shimano uh motor like housing it's

designed to be the same size shape proportions whatever y three bolt which

means that in theory once inter Drive is up and available you could swap your old

Shimona motor out for a new yep int

drive and how much you doing now we don't know no okay but um I think does

the cotk bike CTIC ebike does that use a yeah so you could potentially put any

E Yeah an intra drive on that yep um

yeah I mean it it's sort of it's belt is it it's a belt it can be either it can be Bel or chain because it's a it's a

gearbox Drive some kind of tension on it were you for full full susce kind of

things yeah going to look like but there are solutions for that aren't there so

it feels interesting and kind of good like

maybe they've set out with some some good thoughts in mind yeah going to deal

with pinion aren't they is it the mgu opinion thing that's the same kind of s

y similar kind of job yeah right okay so um do we know any numbers on it I don't

don't know the prize cuz they probably don't PR yet no what are the numers you want no I can't remember that no but

there is a story on single track world.com right so you could go and read their press release yeah be a full one

isn't it it's not like an SL dinky doodle thing it's full power full power J I can't remember the actual numbers

yeah good so and now we're going to take a short

break uh everybody sitting still again Arie yes uh let's move on to talking

about some other product not electric product let's talk waterproof

jackets what a waste of money

brutal brutal burned well not literally Frozen too many Frozen disappointed

experiences you have okay but sometimes you do need to be wrapped

up waterproof like you can't just keep warm and keep mov it's not the

waterproofing we're bothered about is it it's the breathability b o l l o c k

s right because once they get wet and wetted out they no longer breathe so you

might as well just wear a bag full life I don't

know okay so you're saying that you still think that waterproofing is has

its place waterproofing is not an issue is it very easy to make a waterproof garment what you can't do is make a

breathable garment that's also waterproof can you make a waterproof garment in this day and age

though I don't think you ever really could there was the gortex version one that was

oleophobic and therefore really horrific for uh skin that

worked but you know it didn't work because it was not very nice and it's also like a e e disaster isn't it yeah

and also I think jackets do very well by reviewers who have them for three months try having them for three years they

don't work after like 18 months they well and I think that's got more so the

case as the Fabrics have become less damaging on the environment yeah I mean

I've my poor anymore my poor gortex Pack Light that I got for my 21st birthday

which was most definitely a long while ago and I've still got that jacket and it is still basically

waterproof but that's cuz there's nothing on it to wet out and it's made

with pure oil and melted dolphins or

something amree is that thing from the whale spermaceti from the sperm whale

finished M took me six months wow that's not long actually really it's pretty good

going so yeah all of that has changed

waterproof jackets yeah and it's quite notable if you if you do happen upon some like old super old stock then you

do notice that it doesn't wet out in the same way yeah I do think it's a British thing as well really I think it never

really work because what's inside the jacket is the same atmosphere as outside the jacket and unless there's a

difference between the atmosphere outside and inside ain't going to transfer so and on a mountain bike as

well well okay good luck as if if you're walking somewhere

dry and like humidity quite low it's Ace

probably all right but this don't work but all of that said sometimes you go in

places where you do need a waterproof jacket like you can't go to the top of a

mountain and think well I'll just keep warm by moving like a something that is isn't waterproof and allows you to get

soaked to the skin is going to result in hypothermia yeah so you do need something waterproof and with that in

mind I have been testing waterproof jackets from Endura which I'd actually

been testing their mt500 for best part of a year oh yeah

yeah and then they launched the new version which interestingly to me was so

different that you might as well have just given it a completely different name um yeah so it's made with a

different weight of fabric so the previous one was heavier

the new one is lighter and therefore supposed to be more breathable and I think possibly there's something in that

um and it's got completely different features like it's pockets are in the different place there's Zips in a

different place and all of that um and turns out the women's one is different

from the men's one okay because they've got a different pool of testers as you might expect there were women testing

the women's jacket but they also have a different designer okay for the women's and the men's so they get slightly

different features now I do think that the new version is a lot

better than the old version the old version have Lyra cuffs the old version

had these little Lyra cuffs on the inside yes who came up with that sort of cozy I suppose a heav all the weather

inside up your entire outfit and then takes two days to dry and you have to remember to turn it the other way out

come up with that yeah so that that's one of the things that's different in the women's one anyway it doesn't have the little Cuffs in it yeah and the

velcro is on the opposite side now and instead of being on the top is on the

bottom or the other way around and like there's lots of little details like that that are different and somehow it does

make it add up to making it a better jacket I do think it's a better jacket however it's to 50 Quid which is a lot

of money and the previous jacket for all that it's were they were gr ired gripes

about it you can probably find that one in a sale now okay which I think might

yeah like oh do you go for the one that if you're not like me and haven't ridden

in probably 20 or more different waterproof jackets you might not notice the difference M or you go for the 250

quid actually that's quite a good jacket was well thought out you don't neither

you you would got 70 quid you go to De cathlon and you get something that's really waterproof that's got a really

easy to operate smooth running zip and a back slip panel at the back cuz the only

thing that's going to work is vents vents well so there's armpit vents on both of the mt500 no they don't work do

they they're quite hard to do yeah like they don't work either

it's just more stuff to be uncomfortable and stop a shoulder injury and you can't

raise your arm Outdoor Clothing really suffers from wanting to put loads of

information on a hang tag in a shop it's the worst thing if you just say made of

this fabric full stop but those are the best flipping jackets so you don't this

as this as this as this as this so it's easy for someone in Evans to sell it you or something no you the less is more

okay let's start the top would you want a hood yes would you want it to go over or under your helmet over would you want

it to have some kind of stowing mechanism to stop it flapping around when using it see that's how I feel

about it uh do where do you want your vents a big zip on front you can use

with one hand okay do you care if it's got a double two-way zip or

not uh no I don't really if I I find two ways it's really annoying to do up in

the first place okay well that's a long list of things she fin annoying um how

do you feel about Pockets um I like sternum that we call Napoleon

Napoleon pocket Napoleon pocket on the outside or the inside why can't we call a Nelson pocket in the brexit era cuz he

had he actually did have one arm didn't

he and he was less of for tyrant arguably depends what side you are I'm

calling nelon pocket from now on okay Nelson pocket and two hand pockets as

well do you want the nailson pocket on the inside of the outside of your outside is it got to be phone size yeah

okay do you want any like little elastic adjustably things to change the shape of

your hood or the bottom of your jacket or any of that depends if you end up with Dingle dangles around your neck but

do you want Dingle angles or not God no right no Dingle angles just want them on the back here don't you pull it

backwards oh so do you want to be able to make the hood stay up while you're

wearing it to walk the dog in the wind I have a different jacket for walking the dog it's longer oh okay so your bargain

jacket deal involves actually buying two bargain jackets

then oh gotcha gotcha just I like a long coat for walking the

dog sometimes wear the normal one okay so what's brilliant about that don't work for the cathon but about their

Mountain back jacket it's got a proper Smithy style thing you can zip up when

it's really awful so it goes really high up and keeps stuff out and it's got a HUD that comes over right and it's got a

little envelope at the front of it that you goes on your Peak so it stays in place yeah

kaching C how much did they charge 70 quid all right I like the little FY

thing that's cunning yeah yeah okay so and I don't know that's

fine I'm not really that bothered about waterproof Zips either because they don't really hard to use with one hand

i' rather just had a zip that went up and down and what about stuffability or

packability do you want it to fit into a bag or fit into it own po waterproof no

no on it got it on for the day Haven you okay I say I like one that stuffs down

into a I have loads of stuff down jackets like little showerproof ones they're the best jackets you should have

that that's actually arguably worth spending money on Jack so you've got your dog walking jacket your bike riding

anti jacket I'm anti outdoor lies that cost hundreds of pounds but you see I

feel like if you get one jacket that does it all

that's who wants one jacket for doing it all that would be great cuz then there's less shite in your

house no cuz the light jacket's really nice isn't it I wear those most of the time I'd say a super light one yeah yeah

I've got a really good super light one from RAB that is so light and packable that I keep losing it cuz I forget where

I put it yeah so they're really little bit stronger than a perex type one because I just finally RI those to bits

on getting over fences or ripping with pedal pens when you're lifting your bike up or just

general brambles or anything so they end up being held together with Gorilla Tape don't they yeah something a little bit

thicker than that okay well everyone so there you go

you've all been listening now you can go and design Benji's perfect jacket for him I've already got it already done

I've already told you what it is get out there buy it I can't remember the name it's a real boring name it's like an st7

00 rock rider or whatever they're called okay uh well that was quite a deep dive

on jackets so I think we shall move towards so what we will do we will update your endur review in 18 months

time sure that was so so the yeah that that's like a head-to-head it's like a i to know how many times You' worn it how

many times you've washed it I'm not counting that many time Cy yes my review of the the previous

mt500 is on the website alongside like a first ride first look kind of a thing

yeah nice color give it that like the Bramble they call it even see that's really divice if people either go oh my

God what is that or they go oh I really like that see there's no winning yeah

there's no choice in it either is is there yeah is there I think so that out

right good anyway Deep dive on jackets done also on the website now is the new

issue issue 159 is now on sale of magazine uh my report from Red Bull

Rampage is in there for those watching on YouTube there it is in all its Glory um

yeah my report from Red ramp page is there with uh some maths from Mark oh

yes yep um looking at the forces that Riders are experiencing which will also

translate to the likes of Hardline and natur selection which is on now uh which you might be watching so y you can have

a look at that there's taken a hand cycle up a Monroe um and there's a digital detox

piece as well um looking at going cycling without all the electronic

paraphernalia so let us move towards the end of this podcast in a sort of

thought for the day kind of a moment you know this is a thought for the day turn it off don't you thought for the day

already so you can listen yeah and think all right go so uh yeah digital detox in

the current magazine like the digital world at the moment is a lot I've

managed to put myself into um local press this week oh which is always a

mistake because the comment section on local press is completely insane um but

I took a Pro Cycle Lane petition to the council so you uh you can already

imagine where the comment thread is going to go and that um yeah so that's

quite wild like cycle lanes and local press comment section um so it made me

feel a bit dispirited oh uh yeah like I sort of I did this Pro Cycle Lane

petition because I thought somebody should be positive about cycle Lanes oh

these are cycle lanes that are proposed anyway yeah well in in in the area where

we live like we need more cycle anes we don't really have any um and yeah

there's a lot of shouting against cycle L I thought I will be the person to put their name and make themselves the

target of a section um and uh yeah it's kind of

turned out like I expected so I was reading about Shannon Watts who started

the Mom's demand action campaign okay which is the gun control uh campaign

group in in the USA uh which attracts a similar amount of

insane comments to cyle Lan I think

consequences not quite so severe on cycle Lanes most of the time um as on

gun control but there we go anyway she said that she tries to get a daily win

while campaigning and while working on advocacy stuff like just look at the

little little winds each day even if it's just a positive conversation with somebody and so my daily win today was

was I saw two kids in a cargo bike being ridden to school and I rang my bell at

them really vigorously and the dad who was riding the bike had a Hooter on his bike

like back at me and that was my daily win I was like yes bikes are great and

we can all be happy just for a moment at least so there you go hope the day at

the end of the podcast go out there and get your day daily wins however you get them thanks for being with us join us again next

week bye for now bye bye [Music]

slick engine we go did

it wear a bin bag in the r