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This episode of the podcast is a bit special! Joining George to talk ‘bike set up’ are 3 x World Champion & 3 x World Cup Champion Greg Minnaar, Fox Global Technician Jordi Cortes and Founder of Motion Instruments Rob Przykucki.
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[Music]
0:18
welcome to the making up the numbers
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podcast the making up the numbers
0:27
podcast to sponsor by hope technology
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revolution bike park on the world's
0:32
finest independent mountain bike
0:35
magazine singletrack hello everybody and
0:43
welcome to a very special episode of the
0:45
making of the numbers podcast I'm George
0:47
Thompson and today's show is gonna be a
0:49
little bit different firstly because I'm
0:51
flying solo jaxa we're shooting for the
0:53
2021 O'Neil catalog and secondly because
0:56
we're talking all things suspension and
0:58
bikes out and joining me well I don't
1:01
think we could have a more esteemed
1:02
bunch first up to talk telemetry and by
1:05
that we mean the measurement of the
1:07
bikes interaction with the ground we
1:09
have the founder of motion instruments
1:10
Rob Suzuki I got that pronunciation
1:13
right there didn't I Robbie's like
1:14
that's close it's it's the goose your
1:19
own Shakey's you learn to talk bike
1:21
setup we have the global technician at
1:23
Fox Jordi Cortez that's right in it
1:26
Jorge Orta Cortez I'm rather perfect and
1:29
tying the whole thing together we have a
1:31
man who needs a little introduction but
1:33
we will give him one anyway he's the
1:35
goat the greatest of all time three time
1:38
world champion three-time World Cup
1:40
champion 21 downhill World Cup wins 78
1:44
World Cup podiums and 10 downhill World
1:46
Championship medals it's is mr. Greg
1:48
Minnaar
1:49
welcome to the show guys thanks Joe
1:51
steaks having us thank you when you came
1:56
into this years ago I was gonna start
2:25
this conversation with yourself because
2:27
my natural train of thought was to
2:29
start with dare to log in and then move
2:31
on to a kind of adjust in the south but
2:33
I think we probably need to start before
2:34
that really because I imagine it's
2:37
important to have a good settle before
2:38
you start logging really so you using it
2:41
for refinement rather than starting from
2:43
scratch so Geordie talk us through where
2:45
most riders are starting now is it 25%
2:48
psyches that's still the norm no not
2:53
really
2:53
I mean you can look at 25 to 30 percent
2:56
in the rear probably as a safe guess and
3:00
for the simplicity I think we'll use
3:03
high level riders for this discussion
3:06
yeah yeah and we're generally seeing
3:10
around 15 percent sag in the front row
3:13
15 in the front 25 30 in the rear so
3:16
super firm up from well I mean you have
3:20
to think about weight distribution and
3:21
what these bikes are designed to do so
3:24
you point them downhill and your flat
3:26
sag measurements kind of go out of the
3:28
window yeah but yeah that's where we're
3:30
aiming for the start okay and my next
3:34
question was going to be how many world
3:36
cup riders are running what is
3:38
recommended by the manufacturer but I'm
3:40
guessing that's pretty much the window
3:42
yeah probably not many not many and then
3:45
after that so you set aside you dial in
3:48
the recommended settings from the Fox
3:49
chart all the manufacturers are of
3:52
course available but is that that's
3:54
where they'd start yeah and are you
3:56
looking to keep both the fork and the
3:58
shock rebound speeds similar now or
4:01
would you still run the the rear
4:02
slightly slower
4:03
I think the rear tends to be a touch
4:06
slower portion but the ultimate aim is
4:09
to get it to get it balanced it is to
4:13
get it balanced but balance doesn't
4:15
always mean that the front and rear
4:17
moving in the same speeds it means that
4:19
the setup is right for you
4:21
right okay so yeah he's down to the
4:24
ultimately still down to the individual
4:26
yeah yeah my team met over here Neal he
4:30
always talks to me about bouncing on
4:32
Crisco verax bike over a decade ago and
4:34
he's rebound was super slow on his shock
4:37
is it still possible to kind of balance
4:39
a bike if you have a
4:42
buqun's really you know cuz do well with
4:45
different rebound spades I mean you
4:50
could balance it it would be wrong you
4:53
could do it I mean you can balance
4:54
anything in the right way or the wrong
4:56
way but again it's necessarily wrong I
5:00
guess it's it's just not as fast as what
5:03
it could be in terms of how fast the
5:05
backing go yeah you know that's kind of
5:07
changed over time so although it might
5:09
be slow and it's not necessarily wrong
5:12
it just it's what we've learned not to
5:14
be as quick as a faster rebound yeah you
5:18
rebounding Mike and I'll remember that
5:20
next time you give me a hard time I know
5:24
that you'll forget like many things I'm
5:26
pretty safely I'm alright you thinking
5:29
that most World Cup bikes now are then
5:31
firmer and run a faster rebound --nt
5:33
than previous generations is that
5:36
something you've you you've noticed
5:38
correct oh yeah definitely it's it's
5:40
it's completely different I mean I
5:43
remember in 2001 and doing some taste
5:46
theme and you know the back end or a
5:48
super slow and I mean the fork was
5:52
obviously a little bit quicker than the
5:54
rear end but yeah the suspension was
5:55
slow and overtime it's it's slowly sped
5:59
up and it's something that's out of
6:00
adulterated just too as well you know
6:02
I'm used to it and I think my whole
6:05
riding styles had to adapt to them and
6:07
get a bit of feel for it it's a
6:10
completely different way of writing and
6:13
how I talk is a little bit through how
6:16
things you have to do to account
6:18
well I think you know when your rebound
6:20
slow you can attack into stuff and you
6:22
push the bike really harder the Grist of
6:24
the end of things
6:25
yeah when the bag starting to rebound
6:27
faster backs coming back at you a lot so
6:28
you're having to muscle the back down
6:30
yeah obviously when you off the brakes
6:32
you you pushing forward a lot faster so
6:34
before you can get the back to like sink
6:37
and slow down quite easily get on the
6:38
brakes and then get into the C key and
6:42
now the bikes you trying to control the
6:44
buyer can slow it down to be able to be
6:46
in the right speed intersection so it's
6:48
a it's before I felt like you could
6:50
really mess up the back and push it hard
6:53
in every kind of way yeah and now you
6:56
trying to master the back to be in
6:57
control of it to go forward Geordie
7:01
something I've heard a lot over the
7:02
years is that a well-tuned dress bite
7:04
will feel pretty rubbish if you try and
7:06
ride it at 80 percent is that true yeah
7:10
I think it's I think it's true for
7:11
anything that you set up to do one thing
7:14
well yeah he we're an into the same
7:17
thing with enduro riders that that end
7:20
up testing on a single track because you
7:23
learn exactly where that bike gets put
7:25
and your line choice is down to
7:28
fractions of an inch
7:30
yep so if you slow those speeds down
7:33
you're not taking the same lines you're
7:35
not hitting the same gaps so it's not
7:39
gonna feel the same and generally yeah
7:41
it's not it feels good and it's out to
7:43
to absorb those really big hits so if
7:47
you're not generating those hits you
7:48
won't be using all the trouble a bit I
7:52
don't know if it's necessarily the big
7:54
hit thing it's just a little bit
7:58
different yeah and I don't know that
8:01
bikes the rebound thing is definitely
8:03
true that rebound speeds have picked up
8:05
I think it's more a technology thing
8:07
that that suspensions gotten so much
8:09
better that it's far more adjustable and
8:12
it's able to hold a specific set up a
8:16
lot better than it used to but I don't
8:18
know that bikes are that much stiffer
8:22
because suspension designs have gotten
8:25
better yeah
8:27
suspension itself has gotten far better
8:29
and you can't just make it stiffer and
8:32
hope to hold on you can make it a little
8:35
bit more progressive you can add a
8:37
little more damping but it's nothing
8:38
crazy for the most part a lot of its
8:40
just the rider they're just they're
8:42
getting better and they're able to push
8:44
better setups faster and debride is a
8:46
they're a lot stronger than they were
8:48
most of them yeah some of the old ones
8:52
are still I think I heard you say
8:57
somewhere that most of the World Cup
8:59
riders are within a click or two of each
9:01
other
9:02
is that correct and I presume you were
9:04
talking about the forks there because
9:06
the rear shocks will be a bit different
9:08
dependent on friendlies
9:12
they're still within a very close set of
9:16
parameters and then going by spring
9:20
rates and pressures and you know
9:21
settings just aren't that far off did
9:23
you ask in someone who battles to count
9:25
cliques
9:28
variance I mean this is a real question
9:33
you know what he's capable of violence
9:34
read this that's why everybody's within
9:37
a couple clicks exactly so there's no
9:39
real not that much difference between
9:41
say a single pivot in a VP P I mean you
9:46
just can't you can't have a bike that's
9:48
way out there and make up for it with
9:51
suspension so most of these bikes are
9:56
within a relatively close envelope that
9:58
that the tuning comes I mean yeah it's
10:03
all relatively close based on spring
10:05
yeah okay so a lot of people who listen
10:09
to this podcast erasers and they should
10:12
all have a pretty decent set up so let's
10:13
move on to telemetry a little bit and
10:15
bring Robyn Rob tell us a little bit
10:17
about the motion instrument system and
10:19
how it came about and and how it works I
10:22
think I think first I want to talk about
10:24
your albums behind you a good collection
10:29
yeah the marsh instrum is basically
10:33
started out with you know two
10:35
frustrations in my life one was my
10:37
career and then the other was just not
10:39
being able to be on my bike as much as I
10:41
want to when I got on my bike you know I
10:44
just had challenges setting it up so
10:46
this was you know going back to my
10:47
motorcycle days and um I just remember
10:51
having this stutter bump problem and I
10:53
tried everything you know oil viscosity
10:55
oil high springs settings and finally
10:58
you know work through it but you know
11:00
with my limited time on two wheels I you
11:03
know I just you know my motivation in
11:05
life is pretty much fun and that's you
11:07
know setting up a bike is not fun so
11:09
then I looked at you know I'm an
11:11
electrical engineer by trade and so I
11:13
you know I've got an oscilloscope and my
11:15
desk I've got you know logic analyzer I
11:17
can I have all these tools at my
11:18
disposal the to debug problems and I
11:21
just thought man you know
11:23
have something on my bike to actually
11:26
look at the data and see what the heck's
11:28
going on so I can make some informed
11:29
decisions versus just kind of guessing
11:31
cuz I'm not you know I'm not Geordi you
11:33
know so that's um that was kind of the
11:37
genesis of the idea and then at the time
11:40
I had the iPhone 4 so I was kind of a
11:42
late adopter to the smartphone and felt
11:45
my first access you're looking at a app
11:47
and I thought man you'd be kind of cool
11:50
to have a app to you know look at
11:53
suspension but at the time you know IOT
11:55
devices were pretty crappy
11:57
we were probably at like Bluetooth 3 at
11:59
the time and didn't really get the data
12:00
rate set I wanted to first suspension
12:03
but then you know over the next couple
12:07
years I just you know kind of kept at it
12:09
and you know architect of the system
12:13
yeah you know basically you know in a
12:15
whitepaper of kind of what I think we'd
12:16
need and that's that's kind of how that
12:19
started
12:20
and what's been the biggest challenges
12:22
of bringing it to market well I mean I
12:25
think there is a bunch of challenges so
12:27
the first one was you know we designed
12:29
this fork sensor and we were pretty
12:30
proud of it and we showed it to Greg you
12:33
know three years ago and he basically
12:36
just said yeah you know this you know
12:38
nice try but no you've got to quantify
12:41
the bike for me I mean I need you know I
12:43
don't understand balance then yeah so
12:47
this this thing that you've built is
12:48
well it's a good first step it's like
12:50
you know it's like not gonna solve the
12:52
problem and nobody in the world Culp's
12:54
gonna use it so then you know that kind
12:57
of started you know us down the path of
13:00
you know yeah well so now we have to get
13:02
multiple sensors talking to the phone we
13:04
had to keep those signals in
13:05
synchronization we had to be able to
13:08
sustain the data rate and then you know
13:10
it's bluetooth so you're gonna get drop
13:12
packets so you've just got to deal with
13:15
all the complexities of a you know that
13:18
system and then make it reliable yeah so
13:21
that anybody can just use it and the
13:23
thing doesn't fall apart so I mean I'd
13:26
say there's thousands of challenges that
13:28
we went through to kind of get the
13:29
product market but start it off with
13:31
just yeah the product that you thought
13:33
you were going to
13:35
revolutionize the world with is not even
13:37
a first step so Elliot well about the
13:42
star I said the ultimate aim was
13:44
probably to get a balanced bike does
13:47
that differ best on rider style
13:49
obviously she already said it does a
13:51
little bit but how does the this system
13:53
deal with something like that well you
13:57
know at the end of a your bike needs to
13:59
support the rider so you know different
14:01
riders ride the bike differently it so
14:03
they're all in the front or off the back
14:04
like Greg or you know somewhere in the
14:06
middle so you know you're gonna have a
14:08
set up that kind of wants to support you
14:11
know the way that you ride the bike yeah
14:14
and you know I would say our system
14:16
while it you know there's a lot of data
14:18
in there it it does not give you like
14:22
here's your settings you know there's
14:24
that just wouldn't be credible and we
14:26
could spend ten years on that and it
14:27
still wouldn't work for everybody so we
14:29
just said look what we're gonna do is
14:31
quantify the bike and that means you
14:33
know the bikes got a model it's got a
14:34
leverage ratio it's got some head tube
14:37
angle you know we're gonna quantify that
14:39
bike how it interacts with the ground
14:41
and then riders should use it as a sixth
14:43
sense and so when as they get their
14:46
bikes set up they can see the data
14:47
change and then they kind of know what
14:49
they want now you know you're gonna have
14:51
to put the time in I mean there's no
14:53
magic wand that says you know here's
14:54
your balance bike yeah you're still
14:57
gonna have to you know do a lots and
14:59
lots testing but it's you know as you
15:01
see the data change which you will
15:03
you'll know like okay at this track I
15:06
like these settings and this is why the
15:09
bike felt good on that day okay Greg
15:12
Greg being so tall would you say you
15:14
ride off the back of it more than
15:15
someone like say Troy or Amar'e
15:17
no definitely I mean and that's why you
15:20
know over the years as the back roads I
15:22
think I've always struggled to find that
15:25
city in that's that's you know the ideal
15:28
city you know feel good on the bike and
15:30
I try and get the back and just the back
15:32
to that feeling you'll go from a track
15:35
like for William yeah and you'll feel
15:38
amazing you set up on the bike you got a
15:40
Leah gang which you know people think is
15:42
probably one of the flattest tracks we
15:44
race on but when
15:46
when Luoyang turns down it's probably
15:48
got more gradient than most World Cups
15:50
so suddenly you go from two tracks that
15:54
shouldn't be relatively similar that
15:56
people think and you've got the same set
15:58
up of the box completely out yeah and
16:00
this is where the telemetry comes in
16:02
because you know that one run with the
16:05
telemetry on the bike you know exactly
16:07
that your folks too soft you to you know
16:09
pick the fork up and you can just make
16:11
these slight adjustments straightaway
16:13
and someone like myself who is either
16:16
too far forward or too far back it
16:18
really amplifies the mistakes and the
16:22
suspension so I think that's to me why I
16:27
think it's way forward and why waste all
16:30
this time on track when you when you
16:32
just have you know something so easy as
16:34
the gradient of the track that that you
16:36
finds it against is it something you
16:38
would use right from the get-go
16:39
Greg kind of or do you need a couple of
16:42
runs to get up to speed and you know if
16:47
you had it on for the first run of a day
16:49
at a World Cup and if the dais said you
16:51
need you know more pressure in your
16:52
Forks would you listen to it straight
16:54
away or do you know I was only riding at
16:56
90 percent on that run I yeah well like
17:00
Jordi is saying alien we talking about
17:02
the different pace of riding I mean when
17:05
you're in a text an attack in race
17:07
position yep you're gonna use as you
17:11
know all the travel on the bank if you
17:13
back it down to 90 percent like we
17:15
probably practice and and test that
17:18
suddenly you're not using all your
17:20
travel so yeah I like to use the system
17:23
straight on Cheryl about on on track
17:25
yeah I probably wouldn't adjust too much
17:28
initially but it's definitely gonna give
17:30
you a feel of balance you'll be able to
17:31
sit within the graphs for sure if you
17:34
trickling down the track you have a lot
17:36
more weights on the front then you
17:37
probably would when you off the break so
17:39
but if you're different will pick up
17:42
stuff I mean if you're not feeling right
17:44
and you're feeling like you're pushing
17:45
hard and the Front's too low or or some
17:48
means kick in you can definitely go
17:50
straight to the Dicer and eliminate some
17:51
problems instead of having to like trial
17:53
and error your way through yeah you
17:56
quite famously run a really high for an
17:59
end
18:00
is that something that you feel is
18:01
specific to you and the reason I ask
18:04
that is because I remember seeing Santa
18:06
Cruz launcher a new version of the Vita
18:08
and I can't quite remember which
18:10
iteration it was but the first race
18:12
after the launch you had a stack of
18:14
spaces under the stem and I was quite
18:17
surprised they kind of hadn't designed
18:18
that out do you feel it's something
18:20
that's specific to you I think it's
18:24
something specific to my heart really
18:25
and you know being so tall you know the
18:28
bottom bracket of most bikes are are
18:30
kind of in the same in within this you
18:33
know a couple millimeters hero there but
18:35
you know Baja needs to be relative to
18:37
bottom bracket heart and you know
18:39
relative to the hearts of the rider yeah
18:41
I've got really long legs so I feel like
18:44
I'm really heavy on the front end when
18:46
my bars aren't race so that's why I lift
18:49
the front end up okay
18:52
I'm six four six I have been copying you
18:56
and your problem is a bigger than mine
18:59
yeah you're my explanation whenever
19:01
people okay and go why is that why have
19:03
you got all those faces on them Rob I
19:06
think we well we've had several riders
19:08
over the the last year or so on the
19:10
podcast and whenever I ask them about
19:12
telemetry the all pretty much gives me
19:14
the same answer
19:15
captain Dara isn't an issue interpreting
19:18
it is the hard part
19:19
that's why loic's mechanic jockey so
19:21
special all the most human instruments
19:24
dairies recorded and in in the app and
19:26
then based on that date of the app
19:28
calculates where you can improve make
19:31
improvements or suggest improvements
19:33
dumb question maybe but how does the app
19:36
know how to interpret that day or is it
19:38
algorithms yeah
19:40
doesn't know how to interpret anything
19:43
really a bike is just a system of levers
19:47
right you've got a lever in the front in
19:49
the back with some forces and those
19:52
forces are damping forces and spring
19:54
force and really all we wanted to do is
19:58
quantify you know how the front and rear
20:01
are working together going down on you
20:03
know on going down the trail and so our
20:07
app doesn't give you any magic settings
20:10
no it just quantifies how the bike
20:12
interacts with the ground and you know
20:14
like we had we had you know data you
20:17
know within six weeks of kind of
20:18
starting the project but you know at the
20:20
end of AI was just a bunch of squiggly
20:21
lines and it didn't tell you anything so
20:25
you know we spent the next three years
20:26
just you know asking questions of the
20:28
data and writing software to you know
20:31
break that down so it's kind of like
20:32
yeah you're in a forest and you see some
20:34
trees but you know if you get up 30,000
20:36
foot view of that you kind of see things
20:39
like oh wow there's a river over here
20:40
and you know it's kind of you know green
20:43
on the north side of the country and you
20:44
know dry in the South so you get a
20:46
landscape of what's what's happening and
20:49
that's kind of what we did and just
20:51
quantifying everything we could about
20:53
the bike yeah compression rebound high
20:56
speed low speed and balance for all
20:58
those things well one of the really
21:01
things that I found interesting is that
21:03
you can pair it with Strava is that
21:05
correct well so there's a use case where
21:09
we wanted to be able to isolate sections
21:11
of trail so whether you're in a neural
21:13
eraser and you know you've got a lot of
21:15
stages that you want to look at your
21:18
data on we just wanted to make it easy
21:19
to you know today just just let the app
21:22
record and then after the fact be able
21:26
to isolate hey what was what was stage
21:27
one you know what was stage two or even
21:30
at Lake at a downhill track you know
21:32
what was the section you know this
21:33
segment of the downhill run can I easily
21:35
isolate that data and so we just used
21:40
Strava for that and you know other than
21:42
that like you know a lot people hate
21:44
Strava
21:46
you know it's as soon as I say this
21:48
they're probably gonna you know kick my
21:50
app off or you know using their data but
21:53
you know we feed them a lot of data and
21:54
you know they haven't been very nice to
21:56
their partners but so far they're still
21:59
working with us but at the end of a it's
22:01
just like you know the just because
22:03
you're collecting data a lot of its
22:05
gonna be junk so you've got to focus
22:08
your analysis on stuff that matters and
22:11
by being able to upload your tracks
22:13
Ostrava and then download them download
22:15
the segments yeah you could just point
22:18
and click to which segment of the trail
22:19
you want to look at so I have a shot
22:23
quiz and I hadn't used it for a good few
22:26
probably twelve months and then I put it
22:29
on if you you know before I knew I was
22:31
doing this podcast just to remind myself
22:32
of how kind of telemetry works and that
22:37
is the thing that's kind of frustrated
22:38
me that I go out I'm working on trying
22:40
to get the kom on a particular segment
22:43
but I play on and it records the whole
22:46
ride if you know what I mean I want it
22:47
to make my bike better just for that
22:50
segment sort of that's something that
22:51
that you can do in yours yeah I mean
22:55
that's probably the shock was is that
22:56
it's not actually even collecting data
22:58
it's just it's a bunch of algorithms it
23:00
looks at you know data assets going by
23:02
and then it's also measuring air
23:04
pressure so you know in chemistry PV
23:07
equals NRT you know that's you know
23:09
temperature is gonna change as the shock
23:10
heats up so you know it's hard to derive
23:13
position of the four core shock based on
23:15
air pressure so I don't know it's um you
23:21
know like I said it's the its its
23:23
algorithm based and you know ours is
23:26
really data based and like a lot of data
23:29
you know megabytes it and the shock was
23:33
does tend to try to tell you what to do
23:34
and that's where it went haywire just
23:39
yep don't bother how do you mean try
23:42
that's where it went haywire just well
23:46
it says it says oh you need to do this
23:49
yeah but it doesn't have the ability to
23:52
actually know if that's what you need to
23:54
do it's just guessing through its
23:55
algorithm right so that's so basic that
23:58
it's probably going to send you down
23:59
the wrong path most of the time okay the
24:03
promotion instrument system retails at
24:06
$1,300 which is a pretty decent
24:08
investment but you have to ask how many
24:10
people would be kind of better off on a
24:12
properly setup shop from two years ago
24:14
than a poorly set up brand-new one is
24:18
that yeah I mean I don't you know
24:23
whether you got a shock in two years ago
24:24
or you know one that just came out you
24:27
still want to get a setup for your bike
24:28
and you know I'd say 95% of the people
24:34
shouldn't buy one of our systems if
24:36
you're a racer then you know it's like
24:38
having a torque wrench in your toolbox
24:39
you should have data for your bike yeah
24:41
and you should be collecting it and
24:42
analyzing it and learning from it yeah
24:45
but if you're just a you know like a
24:47
write everyday rider then you know she
24:49
just rent one from your bike shop or
24:51
somebody that's got one and who is the
24:53
target market is it the local bike shop
24:55
renting it out so we I mean a big chunk
24:59
of our customers now our suspension OMS
25:02
bicycle OEMs yeah
25:04
race teams we got like seven you know
25:06
downhill World Cup teams using our stuff
25:08
now enduro races around the around the
25:11
world yeah and you know enthusiasts like
25:13
me you know they're kind of you know
25:16
maybe you know kind of the fast guy in
25:18
their group and not like a World Cup you
25:20
know racer and they're geeks so yeah
25:22
there's a lot of geeks out there that
25:24
you know want to get their bike get the
25:26
best of their bike so you said bike
25:28
brands are using it are they use any
25:30
kind of prototype stage with the with
25:34
this right yeah through the hole through
25:36
the whole lifecycle of the bike so early
25:39
prototype you know through the mule
25:40
stage all the way to race and we've got
25:43
customers that are you know coordinating
25:46
data between their race teams and their
25:48
product management and their engineering
25:50
and yeah development so I think I read
25:54
somewhere about you measuring the effect
25:56
of cushko it's alright yeah so if you
26:00
look at their marketing in fact I got
26:02
the crushed shirt on Adams one of our
26:05
yeah they've got a couple systems from
26:06
us one for the bike and one for the
26:10
yeah I am I did the town evil race
26:12
couple years ago and had some the data
26:15
on my bike and
26:18
you know I can feel a difference when I
26:19
had a coach Cory my front tire actually
26:21
both tires and after the race I was like
26:23
I should you know see if I could tease
26:25
out what was different about the bike
26:27
and it was pretty obvious that about 15%
26:33
of the compression strokes just went
26:35
away so that I was measuring from the
26:37
top of the baby head run all the way to
26:39
town so Greg and Jordy know this section
26:41
but it's just you know picture rocks
26:43
about this big yeah miles miles miles
26:46
and um so with and without coach core
26:50
keeping everything the same suspension
26:52
setting tire pressure are the same you
26:54
know just that all that data just pushed
26:56
to the left and then about 12 percent of
26:58
the you know vibration data just went
27:00
away as well I would actually you know
27:02
absorbed any energy in Jodi buck to you
27:05
then
27:05
well what your thoughts on telemetry
27:07
does it feel like it's taking a bit of
27:09
pressure off you or do you feel like
27:11
you're being second-guessed at all
27:14
neither really I mean it does take a bit
27:17
of pressure off me I think it in most
27:22
World Cup situations you're in a time
27:23
crunch yeah and if someone is set up
27:27
with telemetry it makes things a lot
27:29
easier to read and you can get things
27:31
done quite a bit quicker yeah it's tough
27:36
for me because you still need to know
27:38
the athlete and you need to know what's
27:40
going on there's so many other factors
27:43
involved but telemetry narrows down one
27:47
of those factors and lets you lets you
27:51
make an informed choice rather than kind
27:54
of guessing and then re guessing and
27:56
then zeroing in so without it you're
27:59
kind of relying on a mix of your own
28:01
product knowledge rider feedback and how
28:04
accurate do you think rate of feedback
28:06
is I think it was Reese Wilson on a
28:08
previous episode told us about a story
28:10
from the Moto world with Eli Tomac
28:13
walking into the pits and saying I need
28:14
this adjustment this adjustment and this
28:17
adjustment and the technicians looked at
28:18
the day and said know what you actually
28:19
need is the complete opposite to that so
28:22
they ignored what he wanted and and
28:24
followed the data
28:28
it's tricky it's it's it depends on the
28:32
rider and it depends on the day and the
28:34
track but certain settings tend to mimic
28:40
each other compression can feel like
28:43
rebound and rebound can feel a
28:44
compression depending on which way
28:46
you're going so it is hard I can't do it
28:50
at the level that some of these guys can
28:53
no course so having data there kind of
28:59
backs up what I would have said deeply
29:03
do you think kind of monkey telemetry is
29:06
where where we're heading yeah yeah is
29:10
that so I'm not sure how mass but at
29:15
least in the near future telemetry is
29:17
going to be the thing and who knows
29:20
where that telemetry is gonna get
29:22
integrated into you say in five years or
29:26
ten years yeah is excited folks are
29:29
looking into I mean obviously
29:35
everybody's looking into it yeah and and
29:37
all of us have used it and still use it
29:40
from time to time yeah so Greg who's
29:45
using the telemetry kind of thrown up
29:46
any surprises for you yeah just
29:51
surprises me what Jody does sometimes on
29:54
that suspension that's the only real
29:56
surprise so it's it's it does a you can
30:00
you know we were testing in Portugal and
30:04
him straightaway just through the
30:06
numbers that I'm used to seeing I could
30:08
see that the folk was rebounding way too
30:09
slow and it was just you know what's in
30:12
a run quick adjustment and you know I
30:14
was just looking elsewhere I just did
30:16
not think the folk was rebounding too
30:19
slowly so it does always surprise you
30:21
now and then I just want to go back on
30:23
what you're talking about like is it is
30:25
it full like the mess the masses you
30:28
know I have a bike shop here in South
30:30
Africa you know going riding with some
30:32
friends now you know ebikes is I've got
30:36
friends who race motocross who've never
30:37
been in sabbatical or riding and you'll
30:40
be surprised
30:41
what a difference just you know 10 20
30:44
percent difference to a better setup by
30:45
how much more country at the rider is
30:47
and how much more capable he becomes and
30:49
enjoys a ride so you're gonna go spend a
30:52
bunch of money on a bike or suspension
30:53
or anything else it's not set up right
30:55
you don't gain the confidence of the new
30:57
product and then you don't enjoy it as
30:59
much and so you know like Rob's got
31:02
assist them now they that can go through
31:04
the retailers who can set up bikes as a
31:06
Spencer for people I think that's where
31:08
it's definitely gonna go I mean it's
31:10
gonna read more people than you realize
31:11
I think a bike that's that's just 20
31:15
gives you 20% more confidence is going
31:17
to give you a way more enjoyment on the
31:19
trail you're suddenly gonna be jumping
31:21
slightly bigger jumps in your user
31:23
you're gonna be really in corners a bit
31:25
better and with confidence and with
31:27
conference you just ride better enjoy
31:29
the right so I definitely think that
31:31
telemetry can point the riders the
31:33
general rider in the right position and
31:35
then have a bike that's pretty well set
31:37
up I agree with you completely I've even
31:41
like I said before get in the chakras
31:43
out the other night he adds another
31:44
dimension to a ride when you come back
31:46
and you you look at your say Strava
31:49
segments how have I done tonight but
31:51
then you also can now go and look at the
31:52
bike of how was the bike performing as
31:55
well as kind of how were we performing
31:57
together which is Joe you know which is
32:01
interesting to everybody do you follow
32:03
the data then now is that you take I've
32:07
been following it for some time you know
32:08
it's not just a given what numbers
32:11
working what don't you know
32:12
and I still go through the you know that
32:15
I've quite a sensitive feel on the bike
32:17
and I still try and aim for the feeling
32:20
that I want and then try and look at the
32:22
date and correlator and once I feel
32:24
really good like win this time being
32:25
I'll be out in Portugal tested with the
32:27
team yeah and telemetry might be a yawn
32:30
and we just you know collecting data as
32:33
you go along and then once I feel really
32:35
good in the bike you can see the day so
32:37
you can see the numbers are and then you
32:38
can start to adjust them try them and
32:40
get the biker a little quicker yeah we
32:43
can go back to those same settings to
32:44
the numbers you know has that the
32:47
increase in wheel size 229 d does that
32:49
affected how you set the bike up at all
32:51
because it the 29 inch wheel or rollover
32:54
stuff easier
32:55
it hasn't really matter to be honest I
32:59
don't feel much different to 220 75 okay
33:04
what something I did want to ask you as
33:07
I mentioned before I'm kind of six foot
33:08
six you're 6-3 I think you have the same
33:12
amount of tire on the ground to say
33:14
Danny ha or Troy Brosnan but you're
33:16
obviously heavier and you have a higher
33:18
center of gravity do you think that it's
33:20
possibly in a an advantage in taller
33:22
riders sticking with a full 29 for an
33:25
Andrea because when I switched to the 29
33:28
I noticed that I had a lot more grip mmm
33:32
is that one of the reasons why you're
33:34
not on the mall no to me I'm not on the
33:37
mullet because I don't feel that started
33:39
off in there in a kind of natural and
33:43
organic way I don't feel like it was a
33:45
directional push to improve my product
33:47
we've got out there I think it was a
33:49
great marketing plan to try and make
33:52
some bits of racers be a little happier
33:56
without a friend in the background Zion
33:58
and that's how develop the Nets ad came
34:01
about you know Loras has come along and
34:03
he's gone he's tried that by letting
34:04
feels comfortable and for a reason being
34:06
that he feels he can get over the back
34:08
wheel a bit more and to me that's more
34:10
of a natural push to me that's a great
34:12
way to go that routes but I didn't
34:14
really have that problem I've been
34:16
really long legs and I can get over the
34:18
back in quite easily so I don't I don't
34:22
understand yeah fulfil Eris's position I
34:25
get that totally and but for me I'll
34:28
probably stick to 29 yeah Jody as he
34:32
said earliest well suspension is a bit
34:35
of a moveable feast Greg talked about
34:37
the differences kind of between setting
34:39
the bike up for for William and then for
34:41
Leah going the week after how much
34:44
change do you see top guys making for
34:46
four different tracks I mean again it's
34:50
not massive I think it's a little bit of
34:53
pressure here they're a couple clicks a
34:57
lot of times it's things other than
34:59
clicks and pressures that such as moving
35:03
Forks through in the clamps for raising
35:06
bars or rotating bars that's something
35:09
that
35:09
adjust your posture back to a level
35:13
basically I mean we're all trying to get
35:15
things balanced right and yes the great
35:17
is one way the higher bars need to go
35:19
flatter tracks you can you can drop
35:22
those things and speed up steering so
35:25
there's there's many outside factors as
35:28
well as the internals of suspension that
35:30
that can change as well so it's not
35:33
massive
35:33
so let's you mentioned before Greg Fort
35:36
William and Lea gang what would you do
35:38
differently between those two tracks
35:43
normally raise a friend in the hardest
35:46
thing on a bike set up going into World
35:48
Cup so you come up off for William and
35:50
your bike set up for a race run you
35:53
leave it to kick it off practice or
35:55
training in near gang and something
35:59
doesn't feel right so a big mistake is
36:02
guys and you know soften up the bike and
36:04
get the bike more subtle and and moving
36:07
better and then as you get faster on
36:09
track you starts just different things
36:10
up a bun you almost end up back to where
36:13
you started just with more confidence
36:15
right on track so it's really I do get I
36:19
definitely go higher on the handle boss
36:21
it's it doesn't feel right in you know
36:24
that flat section in the middle but when
36:27
you when you're around here you're going
36:28
that the top is pretty steep and the
36:31
bottom is really steep so to me and I
36:33
like to just make sure that friends up
36:35
and know you know so I'm able to let off
36:37
the brakes and let the back roll a bit
36:39
and what would change settings would you
36:41
change between kind of a wet and a dry
36:43
race not really that much maybe we might
36:49
just you know run slightly lower tire
36:53
pressure sometimes you know maybe a bit
36:58
softer but not really we try and keep
36:59
the the buy a little loose a Jody do you
37:04
think there are many world cup riders
37:06
now we were still losing valuable
37:08
seconds because of a poorly settled bike
37:10
or do you think the bikes are pretty
37:12
much all you know all very good now the
37:15
setups are all
37:17
fine pretty close I think I think setups
37:21
are still all over the place
37:23
okay maybe in the top five there they're
37:27
relatively sorted yeah but I I don't
37:33
know of a lot of brands that do what we
37:36
do as far as being at the races and
37:38
tuning yeah I think a lot of times it's
37:41
left up to individual teams to do things
37:43
and the suspension is a weird thing if
37:48
you don't have a big pool of information
37:50
to pull from you end up going off in
37:52
these pretty random directions yeah a
37:55
lot like bike design where people think
37:57
they need to reinvent things all the
37:59
time and make something look completely
38:01
different when all you really need to do
38:04
is make what you have work well and how
38:08
many how many times do you know that if
38:14
let's say we're at a World Cup and
38:18
it's practice day one you've got a rider
38:21
telling you he or she's not happy with
38:23
their setup but you know the forks are
38:26
running fine you know the settings are
38:27
around the same as everybody else's and
38:29
you kind of suspect he or she is just
38:31
not having a very good morning do you
38:35
ever just take the Fox and take them in
38:37
the back and bring them back out and say
38:39
try this now no I'll just I'll just tell
38:42
you yeah I think it's down to you yeah
38:46
honestly and that's where a Rob system
38:50
would come in handy because he can point
38:52
to the data and say hey this is where
38:55
you want to be and you're there and
38:56
you're telling me you want this yeah
39:00
okay a good rider can separate the there
39:05
their mental I don't know how
39:09
explain it really but if you're having a
39:11
bad day you would know there's a fair
39:13
amount of rioters ago I'd never mind
39:15
it's just me and there's some that'll
39:17
that'll blame the one thing that they
39:19
don't understand which is easy to do
39:21
yeah
39:22
suspensions not a cure-all for poor
39:25
riding ability or poor frame design or
39:28
anything else
39:28
yeah it's just that most people don't
39:32
understand it so it's pretty easy to
39:33
blame it and do you do you get many
39:37
riders asking for the their competitor
39:39
settings or asking you know saying well
39:42
where where abouts these greg while he's
39:44
setting sir not any good ones
39:48
no it's I'm sure it's happened a few
39:52
times in the past but I mean nobody gets
39:55
to that level and has that little
39:59
confidence in themselves I don't think
40:02
okay so definitely every once in a while
40:06
teammate so I'll say what's so until
40:08
doing do you know you do you know what
40:13
Laura sanlúcar running to do you share
40:15
that info
40:16
no I don't but we do share like you know
40:20
we're testing and Louis shared that you
40:23
know I should try some more high speed
40:24
compressor and he felt really good so I
40:27
did you know I gave the go-ahead
40:28
they just spot-on so yeah we do show we
40:33
do chef a bit but in overall setting you
40:36
know I would have no idea what they'll
40:38
and Rob have you been out 20 World Cups
40:41
with the team's and given the ties the
40:44
dare for them they're not yet it's funny
40:48
people ask like what's you know what's
40:50
different about your system from other
40:51
systems and I say well mine's about 200
40:54
pounds lighter because I don't have to
40:56
be in the tent with those guys I can
41:00
show up at a World Cup and nobody would
41:02
know who I am except for maybe Greg and
41:03
a couple guys at Trek I mean the other
41:05
ones are just yeah they don't they don't
41:07
they wouldn't know me from a hole in the
41:08
ground so but I yeah i'd you know close
41:11
pandemic i definitely want to get out
41:13
and yeah need everybody so cool so i'm
41:16
not the biggest more fun in the world
41:18
but i believe they have something called
41:20
air kit which is kind of like racela
41:23
suspension that's you know circa $7,000
41:26
then there's factory solutions which are
41:29
probably even more in the downhill world
41:31
everybody's pretty much running stock
41:33
suspension off the shelf obviously those
41:37
kind of units are produced mass-produced
41:40
how much better do you think you could
41:42
make it Geordi Fuji it wasn't a
41:44
constraint I honestly don't think we
41:49
could make ours a whole lot better
41:53
manufacturing bike suspension is
41:55
incredibly hard right and I think if you
41:58
pulled apart a factory kit and then
42:01
pulled apart one of our products you
42:03
wouldn't see a whole lot of difference
42:05
and it's why bike stuff is so incredibly
42:08
expensive relative to other motor sports
42:12
and and other products you could gain
42:16
little bits here and there bye-bye Rhema
42:20
shining a couple little bits or
42:22
polishing things here and there but
42:23
you're talking marginal increases in
42:26
performance and what kind of what's
42:31
coming next what are the next steps an
42:34
improvement is it probably electronics
42:39
yeah there's there's no way around it
42:42
it's just gonna make everything faster
42:44
in systems like Rob's as they are now or
42:47
who knows in the future maybe they'll
42:49
all be integrated as they are in some
42:52
other disciplines so in motor bikes I
42:55
believe they have moveable bushings I'm
42:59
not the say I'm not a big Moe of fun but
43:02
you can't do that on bikes because the
43:04
Magdalo isn't magnesium is that right I
43:08
don't think that's the only reason I
43:11
mean most moto stuff is running an
43:13
upside down fork at this time it is just
43:16
a totally different animal and I think
43:17
the I think a lot of times the bushing
43:21
on the stanchion at the end of the
43:24
stanchion is attached the stanchion and
43:26
slides in the upper right but we're
43:29
looking at two totally different systems
43:31
with different amounts of travel that
43:33
are asked to do very different things I
43:35
mean it
43:36
the end result is that they need to
43:38
absorb bumps but they go about it and
43:41
and the Joe the job that they have to do
43:43
is quite different and so no I don't
43:47
think you're gonna see anything like
43:48
that in time soon and why do you think
43:50
we don't have upside down forks in down
43:55
they're just not necessary I mean we
43:57
don't have a huge axial overhang with
44:00
lowers dragging in the dirt like you did
44:03
with moto right yeah you know we're not
44:05
we're not running twelve inches of
44:06
travel and it's very hard to build that
44:10
system in a way deficient manner and
44:13
keep it rigid so electronic suspension
44:19
is that by that do you mean things where
44:23
you could change the settings remotely
44:25
kind of halfway there right is that
44:28
something about sorry it's not something
44:30
Greg you you think would be beneficial
44:32
say halfway down on door you could flick
44:35
a switch and it would change the same
44:37
yeah I mean we used to run something
44:39
similar around Honda actually sir we
44:41
have an electronic compression but you
44:44
know there's no as most-played leaners
44:46
as you see that was more like an
44:48
electronic lock out yeah but yeah I mean
44:52
it's definitely just the back the
44:55
problem is is is you're gonna lose time
44:57
trying to think about it and adjust it
44:59
and I just like the button whereas you
45:02
know you lose races by milliseconds can
45:04
you just push on on that same setting
45:05
does it make it quicker there's there's
45:07
a lot more variables and just adjusting
45:09
to this perfect suspension I mean yeah I
45:13
think we will I don't know how soon that
45:17
will come and if it will come or if it
45:19
is if it will work it's I definitely
45:23
could be a great great thing to have I
45:25
mean when you got to is very distinctive
45:29
and very different tracks than one then
45:32
definitely it can work also fire road
45:35
set you know fire road site yeah I think
45:37
maybe something that enduro could work
45:39
really well where you like you like
45:40
trying to lock out or something like
45:42
that you know maybe in the longer race I
45:47
got it it would work a little better or
45:50
no
45:50
easier to make work well you mentioned
45:53
the Honda one of the things I think you
45:56
had on Honda was the spherical bearings
45:58
is that is that correct I think brought
46:04
those back now with the ax days you know
46:07
spherical the spherical bearings was
46:12
there I mean so Chris Porter on YZ EXT
46:16
shocks for the geometry ons when they
46:20
wear the shock fits into the frame you
46:24
can move the shock around slightly
46:27
anyhow laughs that bushings no it's not
46:30
often as a shock to float a little yes
46:33
is that when you into the first cut say
46:36
say you hit a corner it's not quite got
46:39
that stiction straightaway that a tight
46:41
shock would have it he does allow it to
46:43
flow a little bit didn't I thought I
46:45
heard him say that used well he got the
46:47
idea from Honda that it was something
46:50
you used to have on the Honda yeah but
46:53
you remember that suspension was
46:54
designed specifically for that bike you
46:58
can't just take that shock and put on
47:00
any other bike now cuz I you know a lot
47:03
of you know the bike design relies on
47:05
that shot it's in some way to either but
47:08
stiffness or anything else you know yes
47:11
so yeah it would really need to be
47:13
designed this in the back to take into
47:18
account now actually sure yeah
47:21
is that something you've been looking at
47:22
Geordie nope okay well tell us a little
47:27
bit
47:27
the new Fox dispenser then I believe I
47:32
haven't got a set of the new forties but
47:34
I believe you've given up a little bit
47:36
of the suppleness to improve the mid
47:38
stroke is that right nope that's not
47:41
right either no tell us about that what
47:43
have you done what the previous voice
47:47
the we've changed volumes in me in the
47:51
air spring so it's got a much larger
47:53
negative volume which increases initial
47:56
suppleness and also increases mid to end
48:00
stroke support so you get a flatter
48:02
curve okay flatter doesn't mean less
48:05
progressive it means that the
48:08
progression line doesn't have a big bow
48:10
in it like most air springs do and then
48:13
a ramp at the end we try to flatten that
48:16
out as much as close to a coil spring as
48:19
possible
48:21
we've also manipulated the lowers in
48:24
certain ways to make them a lot better
48:29
under braking and under forward forces
48:32
so we've we've moved certain things
48:35
around and we've changed lower leg
48:38
volume so that you get less ramp out of
48:41
the lowers as the fork compresses okay
48:45
then sorry go ahead what's the
48:49
disadvantage to increasing the negative
48:52
spring as none that I know I mean I
48:59
guess if you're looking I was just
49:02
wondering why me he wasn't doing before
49:03
if you know I mean well because it's
49:06
everything's a process it's like why
49:08
didn't we make a Tesla 100 years ago
49:10
should I point everything everything
49:12
moves on and we learn little by little
49:16
the forks are far more supple so they do
49:20
you feel like they're riding a bit lower
49:22
in the travel which some people took a
49:25
bit of getting used to okay but as far
49:28
as an all-out faster fork there's
49:31
there's no drawback to that and you
49:33
mentioned they do a mirror in the coil a
49:36
little bit more
49:38
well we're just trying really the
49:42
nemesis and any kind of setup is is
49:45
inconsistency right and you want
49:49
everything to be predictable yeah and
49:53
whether it's a spring curve or a damping
49:56
curb or a kinematic wavy lines don't
49:59
work no so what we're trying to do is
50:03
make everything a nice smooth transition
50:07
from beginning of travel to end of
50:10
travel and air Springs are inherently
50:14
have they kind of have a little hammock
50:16
in them as it tips in the negative goes
50:20
away the air spring wall is a bit and
50:23
then it ramps up hard so and we're
50:27
working to really kind of smooth that
50:29
out and do you think we'll see a return
50:31
to coil folks at any time I don't see it
50:36
happening no air Springs have gotten so
50:38
good and the weight benefit and noise
50:43
benefit at least on bikes noise is a big
50:47
deal even a chain rattling against
50:51
things can make your bike to feel like
50:54
something's wrong so it's really hard to
50:58
get a silent coil fork on a bike and at
51:03
least as far as
51:04
orcs are concerned I just don't see the
51:06
reason right now and talk to us a little
51:08
bit about Fork offset because that was a
51:10
big thing last season well where are you
51:12
at with the new forties we're offering
51:15
multiple offset options you know so that
51:19
you can tune around offset and do you
51:23
know where your what your offset you're
51:24
running grekes I just got some sewing
51:45
marshalese scribbles 52 I think 52 you
51:50
can't imagine how many people are gonna
51:52
zoom in on that
52:00
so you're only 52 that's quite quite a
52:03
big off so I think isn't it it's quite a
52:07
bit less than they ever have been okay
52:09
for a 29 inch wheel yeah I heard rumors
52:13
of somebody running the Mork crowns with
52:16
the new forties and it gave me that well
52:21
you could yeah a 37 mil offset I think
52:25
people do all kinds of dumb things they
52:29
seem to like it it was a good world
52:35
Rider he's a top 30 rider but I'll leave
52:40
that there
52:41
let's take a quick break there we'll be
52:44
back with more after these messages
52:50
Gregg obviously this plot is getting
52:53
more professional every year do you
52:55
think we're gonna see specific setups
52:57
for specific trucks a 29 is one at Fort
53:00
William ever since they came to
53:02
prominence there it's a flat track
53:04
can you see somewhere down the line a
53:06
rider running say a 29 one weekend and
53:09
then a mullet the next yeah I don't see
53:11
why not
53:12
you know if a rider feels more
53:14
comfortable doing that then that's
53:16
probably the direction you'll go I don't
53:19
you know I don't think it's gonna be
53:21
that specific I don't believe we may be
53:22
able to go this is exactly what a mullet
53:26
should be written you know should be
53:27
raced on okay having seen a specialized
53:32
team dare login at every round is it
53:34
something you think we're gonna see more
53:36
off from factory teams yeah definitely I
53:39
definitely think more people will be
53:41
using telemetry you know it's you know
53:46
you trying to eliminate just a waste of
53:49
time you you trying to be as fresh as
53:51
you can you're trying to be in the right
53:54
frame of mind you know the more
53:55
confident you can be the fresher can
53:57
begin it's that final the better you can
53:59
race so if you can eliminate little bits
54:02
along the way and make it easier for the
54:04
riders a short teams will definitely do
54:06
it you obviously Jody you work with the
54:11
best athletes in the downhill world what
54:15
is the most common outside of that was
54:18
the most common thing you see on
54:20
someone's bike that you think
54:23
that they could improve suspicious
54:26
suspension wise I think the most common
54:31
thing is just knowing you need to know
54:34
where you are
54:35
whatever it is even if it's wrong yeah
54:38
you need to be able to say oh I met this
54:41
setting in this setting and I think
54:44
quite a few people still have no idea so
54:49
you can't get anywhere if you don't know
54:51
where you are in the first place yeah
54:53
you've got to measure which being
54:55
dropped back into the conversation if
54:57
met more and more people measuring and
55:01
keep track of it yeah because just like
55:05
anything else and data the same all
55:07
these health apps whatever you're using
55:11
nothing works right away see you Lizzy
55:15
for padding shrink come on now and you
55:19
encounter are using the calorie counter
55:23
it looks pretty good drinking you told
55:29
me earlier that lockdown it hit him hard
55:34
out of this better I'm just coming out
55:38
of it fat and old Greg obviously you're
55:43
you're very very unethical how much
55:47
stuff do you have it can you go back
55:49
years have you got notes of all your
55:50
settings for all the tracks from years
55:52
ago I don't really know you know every
55:58
track changes so although you you might
55:59
have a great setting you know well
56:02
there's a few reasons or we don't every
56:05
year [ __ ] I'm proving their suspension
56:07
so what we raced last year those
56:10
settings out the window we're on you're
56:11
turning new suspension even if they
56:13
change the dampener or something the
56:15
bikes off we were evolving so the
56:17
suspension it's gonna just and the
56:20
tracks himself although you're going
56:21
back to very similar track you might
56:23
have you know we we have used in years
56:25
past where we've gone back on on
56:27
settings just to get like a good base
56:28
setting yeah and take it from there but
56:31
the tracks do it just slightly it's you
56:33
know although the
56:35
outlining the track might be in the in a
56:38
very similar position the the way they
56:41
take the track might tighten it up slow
56:43
it down speed it up you know that this
56:45
this it's we're ever-changing so it's
56:47
very hard and you know two dates that
56:50
was connected ten years ago is really
56:53
running in right now you with someone
56:57
like rat-boy who appeared kind of happy
57:00
to ride whatever he was given do you
57:03
think he could have potentially gone
57:04
faster with a more dialed self but every
57:07
round or do you think it's better for
57:09
someone like him to just leave it and
57:11
don't mess with his head
57:12
we you know like that boy was you know
57:15
happy-go-lucky guard but he know it's
57:16
kind of set up a back and you want it so
57:19
his mic wasn't clearly set up it was you
57:22
know exactly what he wanted the need of
57:24
that you know I'd seen him working with
57:27
the Fox guys to to get what he wanted
57:29
out of the back I work really well yeah
57:31
you know I don't necessarily think that
57:35
would have made him even been around
57:36
with any wide saw or whatever maybe you
57:40
know my approach has always been to try
57:42
and adjust over time you know I've been
57:44
in quite a long time and yeah you know
57:46
riders come in the new style of riders
57:49
come in and then they go out and you've
57:50
got to be able to adapt and and be open
57:53
minded to try that they kind of set up
57:55
that that's working for faster riders at
57:57
that time so you know I don't think that
58:00
we could have gone faster you know maybe
58:02
he got stalled out and a set up towards
58:05
the end but I don't think so I think we
58:08
knew what he was doing you know he's not
58:10
he's not he doesn't just simply jump on
58:13
the bike and ride and just enjoy riding
58:14
you know sitting up his bike really damn
58:16
good with the bikes becoming longer and
58:20
longer
58:20
Luke assures six-foot and he's riding
58:24
same size parameter you've brought on an
58:26
excel yeah I think so yeah do you think
58:29
you could potentially go bigger
58:33
I think you could you know we've we've
58:37
really used the the buzz works so the
58:40
buzzer it gives us a you know I think
58:42
it's about eight molds further forward
58:44
so the the sensitive to four
58:49
measurements so yeah I know Luka
58:52
probably runs his in the opposite way so
58:54
his bikes a lot shorter than mine
58:57
yeah I'm in the front end I kind of felt
58:59
that we needed to grow the rear end out
59:01
a bit so we had tried that last season
59:05
and we came into a few issues you know
59:08
plane was that that rear end is it can
59:12
alter so much and you know not
59:15
necessarily the the length of the bike
59:17
but while we had lengthen the back we
59:20
adjusted the the leverage ratios to try
59:24
and get the bike to to extend the bike
59:27
out to make it work with out having to
59:30
redesign the whole swing on yeah and
59:32
towards the end of it we kind of lost
59:34
those characteristics and a santa cruz
59:36
v10 hasn't that kind of like squats in
59:39
under braking allows you to brake hard
59:40
and then give the brakes and get back up
59:42
to speed car quickly so i felt like we
59:45
had lost that in it and select didn't
59:47
help without without lint growing
59:51
exercise so i've gone back to a very
59:54
similar setup i still grow in the back
59:56
by about five miles now so i've chopped
59:58
the back six from the longest we've been
1:00:00
it's still five millimeters longer on
1:00:02
the rear end that it was but i've got
1:00:04
the same same linkage system as a
1:00:07
standard bike which i think is is is a
1:00:09
great leverage curve and set up right
1:00:13
now so do you know where you're at
1:00:14
wheelbase wise so no at the 465 on the
1:00:28
same yeah yeah okay and when you change
1:00:34
the chain stairs you went up to four
1:00:36
seven 80s alright yeah went to 471 and
1:00:39
and that was because we didn't what we
1:00:42
we didn't want to go and we you know
1:00:44
remould up a whole new carbons we all
1:00:47
know
1:00:47
and what we did is we lengthen the
1:00:49
linkage and then we chopped it back
1:00:51
through the swingarm
1:00:53
and so we extended about 20 mils we
1:00:57
brought it back I think nine so they're
1:00:59
not being live more longer and that
1:01:03
lt'sa big deleverage care of the bike
1:01:05
while doing that but it gave us could
1:01:08
feel I mean the feeling on the bike
1:01:10
journey was good but I didn't like the
1:01:12
characteristic of the suspension I
1:01:15
thought we lost a little bit of it you
1:01:18
know we lost a really good feeling of
1:01:19
braking and so so whenever we went into
1:01:21
like steep sections of track I felt the
1:01:23
bike pushing forward instead of
1:01:25
squatting then and I found like I was
1:01:28
losing a lot of time in sections like
1:01:30
that's you know the way we've gone about
1:01:34
it is to actually redo the swinging arm
1:01:38
into 465 and decided to farm oil and tin
1:01:43
mold through testing and I ended up more
1:01:45
comfortable on that on the on the
1:01:47
shorter ones are still five miles longer
1:01:49
than standard I think I heard he taught
1:01:52
that you know he couldn't just make a
1:01:54
big jump to a bigger bike over little
1:01:58
you know obviously years ago you were on
1:01:59
a smaller bike and it's been a gradual
1:02:02
process of getting bigger each time do
1:02:06
you think were at the the the limit now
1:02:10
hello I don't know I still think there's
1:02:14
possibly a little room to move and I
1:02:17
think to stall and on and say it will
1:02:20
never grow any more I think there will
1:02:23
be wrong and I think would be the wrong
1:02:25
approach to it you know when Santa Cruz
1:02:27
came out with a bike weak from the test
1:02:30
batch I think the bike that we racing
1:02:32
now I think they grid about 20 months
1:02:34
and the guys will then go like you kind
1:02:36
of you know having a very calculated
1:02:40
guess that 20 miles and were like well
1:02:42
you know worst case we can bring it back
1:02:44
eight miles what's their buzz work yeah
1:02:47
and you know so the bankbook twin we're
1:02:49
pushing forward again and going even
1:02:51
bigger than we thought so
1:02:53
you know we've grown we've exceeded what
1:02:56
we thought so you know everything's
1:02:57
changing and and moving
1:03:01
who knows do you look back now and feel
1:03:04
like you're a kind of massive
1:03:06
disadvantage years ago and the bikes are
1:03:08
smaller do you think you could have one
1:03:10
more if if this whole process had
1:03:13
happened earlier I think everything's
1:03:15
going to progress slowly you know it's I
1:03:17
remember in 2001 trying to grow the bike
1:03:20
I was on there and they're not feeling
1:03:22
comfortable and then shrinking again and
1:03:25
then you know it's got to move it's
1:03:28
gotta move slowly I think as soon as you
1:03:30
get too uncomfortable you then you know
1:03:33
you won't be pushing the boundaries on
1:03:35
the back yard so I think you've got
1:03:37
you've got to move in baby steps with it
1:03:40
yeah I think I could have gone a lot
1:03:42
quicker on a bigger bike back then but
1:03:44
at the time that's what I thought was
1:03:46
comfortable and there wasn't anyone else
1:03:50
coming with this you know bigger wheel
1:03:53
base bike and this is amazing and
1:03:55
killing us and time you know we're still
1:03:56
competitive on that bike so that's what
1:03:59
we fought comfortable on and that's what
1:04:00
we're racing
1:04:01
so the onto the last couple of things
1:04:04
something Jack was talking to me about
1:04:08
he said you had a chat with him a
1:04:10
streaker each qualified 61st I think
1:04:14
that was in Leah going and the chat you
1:04:17
had really benefited him you you said
1:04:19
that it's important to stay calm slow
1:04:21
everything down and he kind of qualified
1:04:23
top 30 or the next three rounds of thing
1:04:26
how do you do that how do you slow
1:04:28
everything down he asking me Jody no I'm
1:04:33
asking you how what did you mean by
1:04:36
slowed everything down do you mean stay
1:04:38
calm and how do you I mean when you're
1:04:41
rushing and racing and in a race you
1:04:43
just be panicking and you're rushing
1:04:45
you're break-in your ration you're
1:04:47
cornering then you know you're just
1:04:49
losing time rather than gaining time
1:04:51
it's it's the hardest thing to you know
1:04:55
you want to for myself personally I want
1:04:57
to be nervous I want to you know be this
1:05:00
intense feeling going to race but you're
1:05:02
also gonna calm yourself down because if
1:05:04
you're not calm you can attack so it's
1:05:07
just it's a big mix of of trying to stay
1:05:10
calm but being this like attack in an
1:05:12
aggressive mode and
1:05:15
what techniques do you use to try and
1:05:17
stick her breathing is it I'm not I'm
1:05:21
not usually calm you know and that
1:05:25
that's just the hard combination of it
1:05:27
you know I always look at marsh again
1:05:28
damn I'm nervous and he goes good
1:05:30
if you're not nervous I'd be worried so
1:05:33
you know that's just the way it is
1:05:35
so with lens of height canceling last
1:05:38
week and was here today we're now down
1:05:40
to potentially five races in three or
1:05:43
four weeks do you have any more insight
1:05:46
on if those romantic meshes are looking
1:05:49
solid any of you it's hard to say I mean
1:05:52
it's it's it's all up to the Federation
1:05:57
and the country it's in and what
1:06:00
pandemics doing in each in each country
1:06:04
so you know it's really up to the
1:06:07
governments you see I'm pushing hard and
1:06:09
working really hard around the clock
1:06:11
trying to make it happen and trying to
1:06:13
come up with some kind of season yeah
1:06:15
you know they're really impressed me
1:06:17
with the efforts that have gone into to
1:06:20
coming up with a schedule and a season
1:06:21
like they have I think you know for
1:06:25
surely you'll be pushing more to try and
1:06:27
get some kind of decent calendar you
1:06:30
know still to be you know raced I know
1:06:33
you know some events are canceling but
1:06:35
you know it's it's kind of out of
1:06:37
everyone to control right now so but I
1:06:40
think you know they've really put the
1:06:42
best foot forward trying to get some
1:06:44
kind of season together we had Simon
1:06:47
Burnie on the show a few weeks ago and
1:06:49
he said you were instrumental in in in
1:06:51
instigating the doubleheader rounds
1:06:52
given the amount of riders with bonuses
1:06:55
tied into their contracts if they go
1:06:57
ahead I imagine there'll be a good few
1:06:59
Oh in your beer you know that's what so
1:07:06
instrumentals ever the riders rip within
1:07:08
the UCI Commission and and you know
1:07:12
sometimes when organizers are looking at
1:07:14
things like the UCI trying to figure out
1:07:15
races and venues and everything else
1:07:17
it's concern around his perspective and
1:07:20
in that super important so I think we as
1:07:24
runners are thankful that we have a
1:07:25
position in the Commission and and it's
1:07:28
it's nice and you
1:07:29
do come to the writers to see what they
1:07:31
think and feel before making decisions
1:07:33
and if it is five races in three weeks
1:07:36
how do you approach such an intense
1:07:38
period of racing yeah it's gonna be
1:07:43
intense I mean you'll be racing two
1:07:45
races on one one weekend I don't know if
1:07:49
I just throw it to the trainers so I've
1:07:51
got two trainers that I work with I give
1:07:54
them all the info and I just stick to
1:07:55
the program you know I can't overthink
1:07:57
it it's it's it's gonna be new for
1:07:59
everyone I don't think you can really
1:08:01
emulate a race during practice I think
1:08:05
you know you train for to make sure that
1:08:06
all the bikes that say but it's gonna be
1:08:08
hard to try and emulate this with that
1:08:12
being in that environment you know you
1:08:13
can be ready for it and then plan with
1:08:17
it within the schedule once it's
1:08:18
released but it's everyone's gonna be in
1:08:21
the same boat I don't see a problem with
1:08:24
I think it's gonna be different but I'm
1:08:26
thankful the same time but you see I've
1:08:28
put together what they have yeah
1:08:30
excellent so I think that's about it for
1:08:33
tonight thanks ever so much for making
1:08:34
the time everyone it was a really
1:08:36
interesting show and I hope the
1:08:37
listeners will enjoy it best of luck to
1:08:39
you all is season it if we get a season
1:08:41
of course where's the best place for
1:08:43
people to keep track of your progress is
1:08:45
it Instagram for you are ya yeah so
1:08:50
we've got at Greg Minnaar accorded your
1:08:53
tears and at Martian Instruments that's
1:08:56
right
1:08:57
thanks George thanks for having us
1:09:00
thanks again to our sponsors hope
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1:09:05
and singletrack worldcom if you're
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enjoying the podcasts please subscribe
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so you don't miss an episode and if
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alternatively please give us a follow on
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or facebook.com/ slash making up the
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numbers thanks very much for listening
1:09:19
we'll be back soon
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