Singletrack Unscripted: Talking About Flat Pedals

Hi welcome to Single Track World, I'm Hannah and I am a flat pedal rider

Mine's Benji and I also ride flat pedals. The chances are if you buy a bike and it comes with some pedals it's going to come with something

like this which is is basically just a bit crap fine for riding to the pub. I presume it's box

ticking isn't it because you get reflectors and bell things you're obliged to have on your bike

well you should have a bell on your bike they're useful but but these are not particularly useful

for anything other than pootling along the c so we've got some flat pedals for you that

we think are good or some features of flat pedals yes if you want to get rid of them because you

realise they're not so good get rid of them or your pedals have gone all rattly so um so these

ones you've been riding around on these ones haven't you yep so uh and we have not been riding

around on these ones because these have some of the features that we you would you would not want

so the thing about flat pedals is you want pins that are going to dig into your shoes yep um you

want a shape that is going to accommodate your foot so that your foot sort of is captured by the

pedal almost yep um and anyone one that's the right size as well so that it matches up to your

feet because obviously we've all got different size shoes and feet and so it makes sense that

the pedals kind of match that as well yep um and so this contains a number of features that are a

bit bit rubbish really so there's a big lump in the middle here that's going to make it quite hard

to engage your foot into the pins and the pedals because that's going to the shoe is going to hit

the middle as well as as well as hitting the pins yeah and then these pins are not very sharp which

is good for the skin on your shins but really i'm not convinced that's going to be that much better

than that if you think about if you were to be walked along by someone wearing stilettos versus

someone wearing cuban heels yeah okay one would hurt a lot more and have a lot more

than anything else, wasn't it? Yeah. That's how pens work. So. That's science

Science. Okay. Yeah. But you can have different ones. I'm glad you're not a science teacher

You get banned really quick. So those are also really small platform as well, which I personally have never ridden the pedal

that I thought was too big. Okay. So these are DMR vaults

which are arguably like the classic flat pedal. Yeah. Lots of people

Good feel. Buy these. Still the best feel. life for me. So these are actually my personal pedals that I bought when I first started mountain

biking and they're still going. So they are the kind of classic flat pedal. They have replaceable

pins which is good because if you break one or you lose one you can replace it. Quite a large

platform. Yeah. Quite thick and quite wide. They're kind of like middling. I think they're 17

mill body thick and you kind of get lots of different pins

for them, ones that they come with both excellent names, there's king pins

and there's terra pins and there's different length and different colours as well

and this pedal has both ways of attaching a pin, you've got some

that come through from the other side that's these ones on the edges here

so you put them in through here and then your feet are going to stick

onto the threads basically And you've got the ones here. The top loading

And your feet are going to go onto the head of the bolt

And I think that's got a lot to do with how good those bolts feel

Because these are the aforementioned spiky stiletto style ones And these are more like your Cuban heel ones Those are fatter and don dig in as much so there a a blend of traction there combined with that dipped concavity and the general sizes

and they do do a smaller one they do a volt midi i think that's a few millimeters smaller

they know what they're doing they're doing pedals for an awful long time yeah so these ones you you

can adjust them a bit as well you have the longer pins on the outside edge yeah and then the shorter

pins on the inside to sort of exaggerate that if you want yeah or if you if you don't find that

comfortable then you can you can move your pins around you can adjust them yeah um one thing to

note though is if you do bash the pins uh like the top loading ones if you mess those up they can be

a bit of a mission to get out now these ones also you can use a spanner on them so that's quite

useful. A little socket set, yeah. Yeah, a little socket set or whatever. So, generally

because the ones that get damaged are the ones that are four and a half. Like that one there, there's all

bent. So the side one, I don't think really get damaged too much, do they? No. It could be really

unfortunate. But the heads on these are tucked away so you're much less likely to

kind of mash up the heads on them, aren't you? Yeah, I mean, if you bend that pedal, you can still get it out

because you're going from the other side. Anyone who's a vault user will probably have a set that's

like Trigger's broom. He would have replaced everything on them over the five years you've had them, apart from the colour of the cake

This will be original, but you've probably got a new axle, new pins, new bearings, new bushes

but the body will keep going. Yeah, and if you put Loctite on your pins, then you won't lose them

as rapidly, as I discovered on my first ride. Yeah, if you get some new pedals, even ones that

are really expensive, doesn't mean the pins are improperly, so before you put them on

so before you go for a ride it's a boring old job because yeah it's like 40 things you have to

check just go around each one because there will be a quarter of them won't be quite tight

the vaults come with them all separate you have to get a little mini tiny inch when you put them

all in together that's quite a nice little project so that's the that's the dmr vault and this is its

uh composite fiber equivalence this one's metal yeah and this one is like it's not plastic but it's a

It's a composite material. Informally known as plastic pedals, aren't they? I don't think there's much of a difference in the weight or anything

No. And this one has the same shape and everything. Same profile, same slant and same pin arrangement

So why would you want them made of this instead of metal? The main reason, I would think, I would think there might be a handful of grams lighter

Sometimes you'd be surprised and plastic ones can be heavier than their alloy ones

Doesn't make such an unpleasant scraping noise past rocks? Yes, there is a bit of a fact the way I think you do seem to, if you do hit a rock, a certain type of rock, plastic ones will glance off a bit more than metal ones

But I think the overarching reasons to go for it is to be, I can't remember the RRP off the top of my head, but I mean proper metal vaults are getting on for 80, 90 quid aren't they and those won't be that much

So and then another consideration of the pedal body shape is mud shedding isn't it

So in these, you can potentially accrue a fair amount of mud inside them

Whereas, for example, this one by PNW looks like it doesn't really have much by way of mud shelf

No, not at all. It's much thinner, although it's still a really big platform

I mean, if I use most of these two, really, that is a real mud trap on the end there

It can particularly affect the performance. but when you're trying to clean it at the end of the ride, it's a bit of a pain to get that out

There's no mud sockets on these. They are, I can't remember the thickness of the top of my brain

but they look like they like 15 or something so they really thin When you get thin pedals you have two things to look for there the lack of concavity yep and there this bulge thing here which some people are just not gonna like yeah it really

bothers me the ball of your foot over that bit in an old not an old but in that theory of ball of

foot over axle that's going to be in the way if you put your whole foot on there that's where your

your shoe has a little scallop in and it's fine. That's how I tend to ride

So these are all right for me. I find them. Yeah. Whereas I find that I'm forever like on a pedal like that

My foot never quite feels like it's got in the right place until it slides. And then I end up setting off down a hill with my foot at a funny angle or whatever

I think a lot of, yeah, there's a lot of people who are riding bikes to the ball over the foot

over the axle, probably shouldn't be doing that all the time. particularly downhill, but you just move it forward

and realise, oh, it's so much more comfortable, so much more grip, cornering's low

It's just that getting set off thing, that sometimes you're on something nagger-y or whatever

and you don't quite get your foot in the right place. But those, to overcome the thinness of the pedal

and the axle size in the middle, have absolute shin-killer, giant long fins

Yeah, it's kind of unavoidable, I suppose, that if you want really grippy pedals

they are going to have really big pins. So you get ones that are long and you get ones that are fatter

and those ones are reasonably skinny. The ones that are really skinny are the real, like

they really spike in your shoes, don't they? But they also, like, you don't have to sort of walk past them

and they've bitten you. Yes, I mean, it's... We had some in the office

Yeah. I wouldn't think it'd make any difference, would you? You'd think it must be one mil longer or something

but they do grab hold of you. But as someone who rides in full-length trousers and usually knee-high socks

possibly because of this, actually, I don't know, but I don't get too much scratchy injuries from pedals

Yeah, just get them when you're pushing, doing something innocuous. But yeah, in terms of pins and things, I mean, these did come with

and will come with if you get hold of them. P&W Loam, I think they're called. the pin there that sticks out like that and stops your foot sinking in so they were a bit

uninspiring and not so good until that was removed and then your foot came in a bit more

and you can finally pick up the bike a bit more you're more about you can be able to lift up the

back of your bike really because you can scoop a bit more but yeah that bulge is the make or break

if you don't like i like them because i like like have bikes really low bottom brackets and usually

short cranks so but if you're a pedal striker then no probably not now these have kind of

interesting pins they're they're different so you you load them through the pedal which means that

the attachment is protected isn't it forever so you're not you should be able to get them out

yeah forevermore unless you bend them horribly perhaps but be interesting to see how that works

out yeah i've had been not about any of these as yet but you usually bend them straight um maybe

with pliers and just break the broken bit off and then the bit inside you'll have to hope is

all right to get out. Yeah not rounded out. Mainly if it's full of soil. Yeah. Put a little braddle in there if you

know one of those. A little spiky needle thing. Clear them out and then put in your, because they're always really small

yeah so like this one you load into the pedal this is a race yeah so you load it into the pedal

and then that's where the the head of the screw is as well yeah so if you snap that or bend that

or round it out or squish it or whatever it's going to be a hell of a thing to get it back out

again because there nothing there not like a protected end um so that something to watch for especially if you out somewhere rocky isn it because that when you start really breaking the reason why they go for uh top loading pins is not any kind of cost cutting or anything like

that i think the fact that it's got a hole on it makes them more just more grip right like when

you've seen people have like when you see the warning videos where you should put bar ends in

the end of your things because you get coarse you're coring your shoes that's what those are

doing into your shoes so they kill your shoes really quick but they're really really really

grippy those top loading pins so yeah that's why they've gone for some some without so and those

ones come in different sizes that's that's the the big size isn't it this is the affect effect

oh yeah so like if you've got big feet potentially that's what you'd be wanting there's some really

good smaller pedals around now that are good for kids as well makes their bike kind of much more

in proportion so yeah they're they're worse for getting injured pushing their bikes along hold it

away from you more yeah but if they if their bike comes with something like this or your bike comes

with something like this you're gonna do yourself other sorts of injuries like your feet sliding off

and you're hitting the crossbar and that kind of thing so invest when you buy your bike choose

any other pedal basically price-wise can vary a lot can't they i think these are

all right i think these are ht they're about 40 quid and those are the best composite ones that i

well best are my favorite ones i'm using some gamuts at the moment that i really like as well

probably the cheapest replacement you're going to find for one of these yeah it's something that's

composite but it's worth getting the replacement pins and not having one that's just got plastic

yeah and avoid top loading unless you're really struggling for grip and look out for ones that

don't have a big lump in the middle, or at least make sure that you can adjust your pins

so that you can have them sticking up enough to overcome any lump that's in the middle

What to look out for? I mean, those have moulded-in pins, which is usually like a red flag for

no, don't do that. But those are so not near the point of danger

Nothing really gets near them. They're all right. They don't have any there. Anywhere that's in the danger zone

it's not good, Maverick, is metal and replaceable. I suppose there is an eco thing about plastic pedals

Some people aren't going to like them because you can't do anything with them. So alloy ones

If you're buying a bike that's come with this and you haven't already got a set of pedals, you've probably just spent all your money on the bike

And so you're probably looking for a composite pedal that's about 40 quid, aren't you

Yeah. And they will be so much better for your riding experience than these will

And I think it's the first thing you should buy. You can ride a cheap but okay pedal with a pair of old trainers

better than you can ride a pair of these with a pair of proper mountain bike shoes

Yeah, well, definitely, yeah. Definitely, Benji agrees. Right, let's finish there. Those are awful on everything, aren't they

I mean, I would say... These, these are awful on everything. Yeah, even if you put whatever, 510 or any kind of good shoe on those

are just going to be rude. But these would be all right with a pair of..

What do people ride in when you see them going around? Vans. Not quite. A pair of state shoes

They're wearing like Tevas and things, aren't they? Yeah. Kind of might be all right

Something without too much knobbly sole is what you want. Yeah, you want flat sole as possible

As flat as possible. You've worn out old shoes. TK Maxx. And get yourself some Etnies

We'll do shoes another time. We'll do shoes another time. It's a system, though. Stop making it more complicated

Right, there you go. That could be the next one, can't it? Yeah, next time. Join us again for shoes or something else

Yeah. All right. Bye. Bye