Viewing 33 posts - 1 through 33 (of 33 total)
  • Zwift training plans
  • daviek
    Full Member

    I’ve used zwift since beta on and off but now like a lot of folk look to be having an extended period off work. I’ve never done one of the training plans before and I’m looking for advice on what to do. The two I’m looking at are the 4 week ftp builder and build me up. I’m not really trying to accomplish any specific thing just looking for something structured. My ftp is woeful but in the w/kg world of zwift it sits about 2.3.

    Any advice welcome

    tomhoward
    Full Member

    I’ve been doing the 6 week FTP builder and it’s pretty good, I’m in week 3 and it’s starting to ramp up a bit, now I’ve got onto a routine with it. I like that there’s a bit of variation in when you do the sessions as well. Will report back on the results in a couple of weeks, I started at 1 w/kg.

    n0b0dy0ftheg0at
    Free Member

    I started https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/tt-tuneup/ on 6th Jan, it got brutal around week 5, especially while trying to do a few Zwift races/TTs during the week. I barely started week 8 before I decided to stop, due to feeling like I was coming down with something.

    My 95% of 20min FTP increased from 273W to 297W, despite often having far from fresh legs, at one point having -44 power “form” on Strava (but typically approx -23).

    My LTHR increased from 166bpm to 174bpm.

    First time I’ve ever tried a structured plan, will definitely start another one when I’m convinced I’m over what is quite possibly mild COVID-19 over the last ~10 days.

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...
    Latest Singletrack Videos
    Poopscoop
    Full Member

    ^^ Get well real soon matey. Glad to hear you “only” have it relatively mildly.

    dirtyrider
    Free Member

    no rest week/retest with that 9 weeks tt plan?

    whitestone
    Free Member

    Some Zwift training plans are very much kitchen sink types of workouts, i.e. do a bit of everything everytime, they also use a lot of High Intensity with not much periodisation or rest. See this piece https://www.bicycling.com/training/a26429358/cts-vs-zwift-youtube-video/ and the linked Dylan Johnson video (acquired taste of presenter). Also notwithstanding the fact that DJ works for a potential competitor to Zwift.

    teamslug
    Free Member

    I’ve done the Dirt Destroyer plan coming off the back of a base plan on TrainerRoad( I can only do a few weeks of following a dot!!). It was pretty good and a lot more mtb specific. Lots of low cadence leg strength works which suits as I sometimes ride singlespeed. Just started the new Singletrack Slayer plan ( they have the corniest names for the plans)and it’s very demanding. 7 rides a week for 10 weeks is too much especially without any recovery weeks built in. I’ll skip a couple and do a recovery ride instead. The only problem I find is that unlike Trainer Road where you can move things about, if you miss the scheduled time you cannot go back. It just says expired which is a bit pants.

    Vortexracing
    Full Member

    I have just completed the build me up 12 week plan. FTP test tomorrow (gulp). I was hoping to get at least 10% improvement in FTP (started at 224w @ 71.4 kg = 3.1W/Kg), altered the diet, cut right down on beer/wine and sweet stuff, stuck to the Zwift plan and this morning my weight is 64.8kg. 🙂

    If I can get close to the 10% i.e. around 250 watts ie 3.85w/kg I will be chuffed as buggery.

    I know some people knock the Zwift plans but for me it has worked a treat, both towards loosing weight and hopefully improving FTP.

    The 12 week build me up plan has had 3 x rest periods in it BTW

    djflexure
    Full Member

    As mentioned above many of the workouts dont follow conventional structure – they are sort of all over the place with perhaps too much emphassis on intensity. I have not looked at them for a few months and I’m sure new stuff gets added.

    The workout builder is really easy to use though, if you want to structure your own training. The Chris Hoy book gives a really clear and basic guide to doing this. Some of the other well know publications are not so easy to follow 🙂

    andrewreay
    Full Member

    Kicked off my Zwifting with Build Me Up, and really enjoyed it. Not to mention it improved my FTP (226 – 287), which was an added benefit.

    I found it fun, and the workouts were varied. Also takes advantage of the changing locations, so you get to try new routes and worlds as part of the experience, not just ‘stuck’ in Watopia.

    Towards the latter weeks, the time commitment ramped up, and I found it difficult to keep up.

    The only real downside was this structure. The plan doesn’t let you do all a week’s training back to back, and for some of the longer ones, it enforces a rest period of at least 24 hours. So if you have 5 workouts to complete in the week, and get to Tuesday evening without doing any, you’ll only be able to complete 4.

    That means that during some busy weeks at home /work, I wasn’t able to complete all the prescribed workouts, which felt a bit annoying.

    Overall though, I’d really recommend. Was a great intro to Zwift.

    The one thing I’ve noticed about the detractors to Zwift training plans is that they are all personal trainers and / or work for a competitor. I wonder why they are so down on it?

    Bottom line is that it taught me some bike skills, massively improved my fitness and was fun. All for £12.99 a month. What is the problem with that, unless you want to charge your PT services out for £100 per hour?

    n0b0dy0ftheg0at
    Free Member

    ^^ Get well real soon matey. Glad to hear you “only” have it relatively mildly.

    Thanks, as much as I’m frustrated for the second year running to have my winter gains smashed to pieces, I must be thankful that I can still ride and just simply reign things in. My better half is now on day 12 of worse sysmptoms than me, including coughing and sounding like she has just sprinted up the Crit City little incline when she walks from room to room!

    no rest week/retest with that 9 weeks tt plan?

    No, no rest weeks, but then current thoughts in some circles do think many of us don’t train hard enough to warrant the traditional “3 weeks on, one rest week off” schedule.

    I simply took odd rest days as and when I felt drained during that plan until I felt ill, on several occaisons I did three back-to-back days of 100+ TSS (which would exclude my bike commutes, urban fatbike rides and delivery activities). https://www.strava.com/athletes/17697777/training/log?feature=public-training-log (not posting as any sort of brag, merely to demonstrate my “schedule” of days off).

    djflexure
    Full Member

    The one thing I’ve noticed about the detractors to Zwift training plans is that they are all personal trainers and / or work for a competitor. I wonder why they are so down on it?

    When I last looked they did not use conventional training loads – it seemed more geared to keeping you occupied (might not be a bad thing). There also seemed to be too many high intensity sessions. Again these are a bit more engaging perhaps. Guess its a choice between training in a way that you find stimulating versus training in a way that might get you best results. In reality it probably doesn’t matter that much unless you are chasing very specific goals.

    whitestone
    Free Member

    The one thing I’ve noticed about the detractors to Zwift training plans is that they are all personal trainers and / or work for a competitor. I wonder why they are so down on it?

    I did note that about Dylan Johnson but he’s actually a fan of Zwift, just not some of their training plans.

    If you’ve not trained before then any training “plan” will show improvements. It’s a bit like crash (sorry) diets, they all “work” in the short term.

    Still 226-287 Watts is a decent increase.

    I use Trainerroad, I initially signed up about five years ago but only reactivated the account last October. From memory I didn’t go for Zwift as my hardware/broadband didn’t meet the minimum requirements. TR has Low, Mid and High volume plans for each phase so you can pick what meets your personal requirements. I use the Low Volume ones as it’s psychologically better to do all the workouts and add extra than fail. Also I’m not exactly young so training is as much about keeping what you’ve got rather than grabbing more!

    Generally, the longer you take to acquire fitness the longer lasting it will be. Hence the base miles that pros do during winter. Then you build on that before hopefully topping things off before a taper before your race. Going for the topping before you’ve got the base won’t end well as your body won’t be ready for it. That’s for racing, for general fitness you don’t need lots of intense workouts, maybe one a week of VO2max which is around 120% of FTP, but it’s just a quick kick in the pants to liven things up really.

    andrewreay
    Full Member

    Sorry! Should clarify that I’m by no means an ‘athlete’ and needed some basic tuition – which Build Me Up gave me.

    I suppose I’m comparing noddy stuff with what professionals are charging for. But I’d hate to think that people are put off Zwift plans by (pro) trainers dissing the content. It’s (cart) horses for courses ;), and I’m well happy to have found Zwift.

    snotrag
    Full Member

    The DIRT DESTROYER plan is good, definitely much better suited to MTB riding and racing. I enjoyed it, lost weoght, gained power.

    I’ve tried some of the other plans and just not got along with them. I think ill just do it again.

    Alex
    Full Member

    I did build me up last year and ended up with about 10% increase in FTP. Definitely noticed the fitness gains on the MTB. Skipped all the road specific single pedalling drills etc, but finished all the other sessions.

    I did most of the dirt destroyer before going to Spain end Feb. Started at Xmas. It’s a lot more MTB specific especially around cadence and again it helped but I’m not quite sure how much.

    I then started the Singletrack Slayer. That’s hard both in terms of sessions and frequency.  I am cheery picking them as I like to mix them with group rides. I find just knocking out training sessions day after day is just too boring even tho they do mix up what you’re doing.

    daviek
    Full Member

    Cheers for the replies, I think I’ll go for build me up as my first one, but that might change when i sit on the bike 🙂

    Is it worth doing a fresh FTP test or just go with what Zwift thinks i am?

    timb34
    Free Member

    I’d definitely do a proper ftp test before starting a plan. All the intervals are based on percentage of ftp, so the closer you have it set to your actual capacity the better.

    I did a few random workouts last winter and even with that learnt a lot about pacing and cadence. With the French lock down I’m back on zwift.. Don’t want to commit to one of the time heavy plans like Build Me Up, as I am also doing a few events and races (tour of watopia and cervelo gravel thing) so I’m working through the 4wk ftp builder. It isn’t a plan so you can pick workouts when you like.

    dirtyrider
    Free Member

    Just noticed sufferfest is 30 days plus 14 free at the moment, lock down offer

    whitestone
    Free Member

    What FTP test protocol does Zwift use? I started downloading the app sorry, game (give me strength) but it was going to take 2hrs and had to do other things so halted it.

    Whichever it is it’s likely you won’t perform perfectly – it usually takes two to three attempts to get the hang of things and you either learn how to pace yourself or know what effort is required on something like the ramp test.

    andrewreay
    Full Member

    Is it worth doing a fresh FTP test or just go with what Zwift thinks i am?

    I’d do one. From memory, there may be one as part of the programme anyway. They’re is certainly one at the end.

    But by doing one now, you’ll appreciate the training more, and oyr gives you something tangible to target and improve upon.

    If you don’t do one, you’ll always be thinking ‘…but did I really improve?’

    Go on!

    Whichever it is it’s likely you won’t perform perfectly – it usually takes two to three attempts to get the hang of things and you either learn how to pace yourself or know what effort is required on something like the ramp test.

    And my inexperience in the first test allowed me to massively benefit by the end of the programme and the final test 😉

    I’d learnt so much more about my potential and techniques for sustaining power, Mage a big difference. All part of the experience!

    BoardinBob
    Full Member

    I’m doing the Singletrack Slayer course. 1 week in. Pretty decent and feels very suited to off-road riding

    whitestone
    Free Member

    Chuffin’ hell – my eyes! The last time I saw a UI like that it was done by a team of Dutch dope heads 😖

    Had a look at a few (not all) of the training plans but not been on the trainer with them so don’t know how they work in practice. A real mish-mash of stuff, some workouts look sensible, others look like the kitchen sink. Little indication of how each workout relates to others targeting the same mechanisms. Looked at the “Build me up” plan and there’s no mention of recovery until the 12th week.

    Going for a lie down – that UI has given me a a headache.

    daviek
    Full Member

    Well I think something went wrong with the ramp test. I was sitting about 140ish but the ramp test now has me at 182. I’d say that 140 is closer to the mark but everything felt ok on the trainer and I calibrated it before I started. I’ll give the training plan a go at 182 but I’m not sure I’ll last long.

    whitestone
    Free Member

    Is all the kit the same? If you’ve changed power meter, or gone from virtual to a proper power meter, then there’s no guarantee you are comparing apples with apples. 140 to 182 is a 30% increase which sounds odd.

    The ramp test isn’t too taxing, so you should be able to do it again either later today or certainly tomorrow.

    tlr
    Full Member

    Ramp test and 20 minute test and 20 minutes out on the road are all broadly similar for me, albeit the ramp is less taxing (mentally at least).

    What matters more than the number is that it is relevant for your set up, so if that trainer and bike put you at 182 then the workouts based on that should be good, even if you don’t think that you could replicate that number in other circumstances.

    daviek
    Full Member

    same set up as I’ve used before, that’s why I’m not sure what happened. will see how I get on when I start the plan but 182 puts me close to 3w/kg and I’m sure that’s not right.

    whitestone
    Free Member

    Wheel on or direct drive turbo trainer? If the former then tyre pressure and/or roller pressure can make a difference. Also with the older types you adjusted resistance via some control, has that changed settings so you are confusing the program?

    BadlyWiredDog
    Full Member

    I’ve not read the full thread, but one of the general issues with the more intense training plans on the likes of Zwift and The Sufferfest, is that they don’t take account of rider age and recovery times. Someone in their 20s might handle back-to-back intense sessions okay, whereas an older rider, who recovers more slowly, could potentially get pushed over the edge.

    Same notional ftp, same power to weight, but different ability to recover between sessions. It’ll vary between individuals of similar age as well, but impaired recovery is one of the classic effects of age. If you’re older, certainly 50+, it’s probably worth being a cautious with back-to-back hard stuff. Maybe substitute an easier session for the second particularly if you feel you’re struggling. Or just dial back your intensity by 10% or so.

    The Sufferfest somewhere has a list of its individual workouts with suggestions on reducing intensity or duration if you’re finding it hard. Sweetspot sessions work well, still an ftp booster, but with less inherent stress on the body. Just a thought anyway.

    daviek
    Full Member

    it’s a tacx vortex so wheel on but I did calibrate it before I began and tyre pressure is within a few PSI. I will say though that it’s a 26″ hard tail with fairly low gearing for running zwift but I dont top out even if I do a sprint.

    missed your reply BWD, I’m not far short of 47 so I hope I’m sensible enough not to kill my self on the trainer. With 4 kids in the house at the moment if I did my wife would make sure and kill me again!

    BadlyWiredDog
    Full Member

    It’s just worth bearing in mind. Right now you don’t really want to be battering yourself full stop anyway.

    Currently hiding from world in detached pain cave / training room 🙂

    whitestone
    Free Member

    @BadlyWiredDog – All too true about age. I’m 60 and as much as I’d like to think I can handle the load I’m aware that I don’t recover in anywhere near the same time as I used to. That’s both between intervals in a workout and between workouts. It also depends on what your particular strengths and weaknesses are.

    I did a couple of VO2max workouts recently: the first was 60 seconds at 120% FTP then 30 seconds @ 40%. Seven of those for a set, three sets. I got to the last set and managed three efforts, I thought the Alien was going to burst out of my chest! The following week I did the next step up in difficulty (given that the plan has a general progressive load), this was 90 seconds on, 45 seconds off but those extra 15 seconds rest meant I could complete the workout and match all the power targets.

    I don’t think any of the online programs properly deal with this. The usual recommendation on the TR forums is to shift the load from 3:1 to 2:1 work to recovery weeks ratio, or even 1:1. You have to do this yourself, the “system” won’t do it for you.

    daviek
    Full Member

    Well as I predicted I changed my mind at the last minute and started dirt destroyer instead of build me up.
    It wasnt bad to be honest but it was a low cadence workout so probably did me some good as I usually prefer to spin a low gear. As it wasnt bad I either have got a FTP of around 182 or I dont and as the set up is the same zwift and the trainer just level the playing field so to speak.

    see how I feel in the morning and thanks for all the replies!

Viewing 33 posts - 1 through 33 (of 33 total)

The topic ‘Zwift training plans’ is closed to new replies.

Members Notice New deal added to Members Discounts