Thanks all. This is both interesting and enlightening. I’m going to do an easier group ride tonight so

a) I can try to get match my speed to the group
b) do a bit of stalking
c) try Weeksy’s flywheel powerup thing
d) be able to get off the bike rather than slump to the floor at the end 🙂

Alex, we seem to be equally pap at drafting!
I did the Tour of London Stage 1 at 1200 today. Was enjoyable, in a group of about 15. I averaged 3.3 w/kg for the hour, other riders in the same group averaged 2.7 upwards. I had the highest w/kg average in the group. My 5 minute power was 4.4 w/kg which is way above the majority of the group. Obviously this is down to rubbish drafting skills.
Fortunately the group I was in today was riding at a speed that I was comfortable holding. Even at the end I felt I could have continued, so I’m happy with that. I did intend on doing it as an easy ride, but as always once I get in a group thats moving at a decent speed that I’m happy with, I end up staying with them.

Does the flywheel effect power? Is this not just there to simulate forward momentum. Off the line you hit 400w because your outputting 400w.

I’m not 100% sure exactly how the Ant+ sticky is exploited but the best description I read suggested quick power spikes which are then smoothed by ‘the software’ to give you ‘free’ power.

It’s a tricky one to know due to things like 1s power display v 3s display etc, you if it’s reading one of your peaks on a 3s display incremental does it give you that peak for the 3s or does it not? So if you surge the power with an ease/kick does it actually give more power, or just the perception of it?

It would be interesting to know the actual answers rather than just how it feels.

Dunno, would love to know. Clearly some understand it as the last race I was in one of the ZP guys was pointing out how stupid it was of another racer to do it right infront of him!

So if you surge the power with an ease/kick does it actually give more power, or just the perception of it?

watts is watts surely,

10 second power would be better for the flat courses and TT’s

Obviously this is down to rubbish drafting skills.

i don’t get the drafting, well i do, i just make sure im in the mid/back of the group unless i know the course an obvious rise, liken the volcano course, the switchbacks where it goes up, i know i need to be at the front as the lighter riders will come round me and i need to not get dropped,

the thing is i didn’t think everyone saw the same view? im sure i saw it on a GPlama video or something way back,

The problem with sitting in the group near the back is missing splits, you miss it and it’s all done, game set and match.

It’s a bit sad that I’m working in Hereford for a couple of days and did a bit extra today, not so I can swing by Cwmcarn on the way home (always have a bike with me working away) but so I can get a bit of Zwift in before the OH gets in from work.

Did a big hill session on Sunday, which was fair enjoyable- just me, no racing.

And then, a few hours later, I felt unwell. Headaches, with a flu-ish feeling. I chalked it up to one of the regular lurgies operating at this time of year.

And then it become painful to pee :/

Anyway- I have a raging UTI, I’m on oral antibiotics, and booked in for a cystoscopy to check out my prostate.

Merry Christmas….

EEeeek. Don’t die on us mate !

I’ll try my very, very best not to!

Sounds nasty! Healing vibes.

Two races last night, both a rude wake up call. First was a TT over titans groove with 30s warm up. I do not recommend this as a tactic! Struggled to manage 4.1avg which as a TT effort is very poor for me.

I then join the Watopia flat sprint race in an effort to redeem myself but failed miserably. Legs were just dead. Only had two weeks off the bike but feels like two months. I held the lead group to the end but didn’t bother sprinting (half tried to go at 800m but just wasn’t happening).

Going for a crit in London tonight at a time that’ll allow a proper warm up. Hopefully be a better result.

I’m doing the big boys race tonight. 18:30 BRT race against the big hitters in C.

My big question for the night is..
Do i put the 44T ring on the Parkwood that’s arriving today.
Do i race with the 38T on it now
Do i throw in a curveball and race it on a ROAD bike as it’s important !!!

Tour of London Stage 2, 2 lapper, bleughh that ws horrible, like peddling through clay, couldn’t keep my HR down, couldn’t put out the watts, felt A LOT harder than what it suggests

https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=268870

@weeksy https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html says if you have an 11-40 casette (I don’t know what you have on your Parkwood), swapping from 38T to 44T effectively gives you an extra high end gear.

I was lead to believe that lower cadence to generate your threshold power is more likely to result in your legs suffering as the interval duration increases, which might be fine for “small” climbs/intervals of say ~5mins but not so good trying to maintain that pace for say 20mins+.

I seem to be going through a very spinny cadence phase again of late, when my legs aren’t made of lead. For example, last Friday when we both did the Tempus Fugit TT and you had hardware issues, I averaged 111rpm. But then I’m still limited to 16T sprocket and the choice of 34/50 chainrings, a vast majority of the TT was at 100% “trainer difficulty” (slope feel). https://www.strava.com/activities/2914938374/analysis/0/1599 . I was typically doing 100-110rpm on my outdoor rides in 2017, but I did drop that down to 85-95rpm last year, I suspect it’s simply my very limited gearing that is making me find my “feable inner track racer” approach again!

Got back from work much earlier than I expected today, was really heavy but I kaned it, partly to avoid the expected afternoon rain but also to give me more options of the turbo… Need to decide on whether I want to bring down the “elite racer” standards again on London Stage 2, possibly the 1500 event.

There’s and educational Turbo/cadence thread on the Trainerroad Forum.   Essentially, small chainring big gear works your muscles harder, large chainring small gear works your aerobic system harder.

If you want to defer to build maximum muscle endurance do all your ERG intervals in the small ring.

I think I’ll join Weeksy after a somewhat disastrous attempt at the London tour stage on Monday – 15 minutes of real time equated to 7 minutes in Zwift after the lagging 🙂
I think I need to stick to a TT!

44T fitted and quiet/smooth 🙂

Lets see what happens

Fighting back the puke at the end. Epic battle out there, proper fun.

There’s and educational Turbo/cadence thread on the Trainerroad Forum. Essentially, small chainring big gear works your muscles harder, large chainring small gear works your aerobic system harder.

link?

My plan to test out theories failed yesterday due to buying a new bike and having a beer to celebrate 🙂

Tonight tho, group ride 2 laps of the flat desert loop. Perfect for drafting practice I thought. 2 mins in, everyone disappears. First wifi issue in the shed ever. Reboot of everything and re-joined (didn’t know you could do that, that’s fab), got comfortable and then bang it’s gone again.

I couldn’t be arsed to reset everything again so did the last 23km on my own at close to my FTP. That’s 40 minutes of my life I’m not ever looking to repeat…

Hope the race went well Weeksy!

The usual mistake for me i guess. Felt good and strong and first 9km was 322w (HR av 168)… You can imagine how things went after that. The last 9km were 243w (HR av 176)

I had a race-long battle with an STWer who i pulled out 8s on at one stage, he then closed and i pulled out 2-3s again, but in the end he closed on the way out of the volcano and as we came back towards the desert he came past and my legs and HR said nope. I thought i was going to be able to manage to hold him off.. .but just couldn’t… He pulled away in the last 2km and i had no answers.

Enjoyed it though 🙂 sort of.

What is your FTP weeksy?

282w from my race earlier this week Using Zwifts 95% of 20 mins. I’ve never done an actual FTP test though.

115% of FTP for 9km (guessing that took about 7-8 mins) will completely cook you. If you back of after about 3 minutes you might have more later on in the race. Not really how Zwift works though is it! Generally it is as fast as you can and then hope to hang on!

Was a TT race so not a flat out start.. We still started as a group, but no draft in effect.

But still, as with all racing, you get sucked in… I was sitting in a nice position and ahead of 3 main ranking rivals, but then we had a small kick into Titans start, which didn’t help me, then another kick out of the underwater etc, this pushed me into the 176-177HR range and then it’s all going/gone wrong really.

Apologies if this has already been covered, but has anyone seen the new mountain and gravel bike updates?

yeah i have the MTB… it’s slow as heck up the KOM lol.

Anyone in for the 16:05 Oh Crit 3 lapper of the Inssbruckring ? It’s not my favourite layout with that hill, but i’ve been known to do OK on it once or twice,

I might enter the “Oh Crit” double, 1605 Innsbrook (27Km, 3 lap) and then 1705 London Classique (22Km, 3 lap)…

But I’ve no idea what my legs are up to today! Did stage 2 London and later Road To Sky climb yesterday afternoon, but my legs were toast (especially on the big climb), I was struggling to average 222W for the ~70min climb while only averaging 140bpm.

Paying the price for not making Tues an easy day after that 104% Intensity effort on Mon’s stage 1 London.

Better go and set up turbo, 15mins until launch! 😮

Meeeeeehhhh

I simply cannot go up hills at the same speed as some.
In lead group coming to what’s only a 1 minute climb, my HR sitting at a lively easy 162, then wham they go, 6w/kg and the group shatters.
Down the other side and flying towards the end of lap we close in on half of the lead group that’s split, reeling them in nicely, the hit the hill again and wham, off they go again, I’ve got 4.5w/kg maybe more but I’m dumped out along with a few others. Again on the flat we close a few down and for the 3rd and final time we hit the hill and the group explodes as usual and I’m floundering.

I just don’t have that sort of power in me, I have no idea how they do!

https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=271614

Meeeeeehhhh

I simply cannot go up hills at the same speed as some.
In lead group coming to what’s only a 1 minute climb, my HR sitting at a lively easy 162, then wham they go, 6w/kg and the group shatters.
Down the other side and flying towards the end of lap we close in on half of the lead group that’s split, reeling them in nicely, the hit the hill again and wham, off they go again, I’ve got 4.5w/kg maybe more but I’m dumped out along with a few others. Again on the flat we close a few down and for the 3rd and final time we hit the hill and the group explodes as usual and I’m floundering.

I just don’t have that sort of power in me, I have no idea how they do!

https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=271614

Just a small margin – i was about 4.6w/kg for the climb. Gapped slightly but managed to get back by keeping the power on over the top and into into the descent.

Lots riding in the wrong category tonight though. Only 6 in the top 20 in race (rather than zwiftpower) in the limits

Quickly discovered my legs were dead on Innsbrook and did ~70mins of recovery riding instead, finishing off the race and then doing an agonising lap of New York Perimeter Reverse. Hopefully legs will be back at the races for tomorrow’s TTs.

I just don’t have that sort of power in me, I have no idea how they do!

Weeksy, you and I have the same issue.   In real life get at the front of the pack before the hill, and try and break the draft – just hold on to the wheels as best you can as you then slip backward on the climb.  Don’t compete, eke out your energy with an aim to be on the back of the pack at the top.

Then use that your power on the flats with a big gear as you go over the top and they all take a breather.

Unfortunately the draft /gearing is a little unrealistic in Zwift to make that stick but perhaps you’d at least conserve a little energy that way?

I’m also a member of the relatively poor 1min power club, but I have a logical explanation for mine… I don’t regularly train inside or out at doing 1min intervals!

Some of my turbo sessions last year, when not racing on Zwift and usually using RGT, involved doing 1-2min reps of trying to hold 400W+ inbetween similar recovery periods while climbing Stelvio Pass. Just as my lurgy was taking hold in March, I managed a 527W effort up one of my local inclines, which I’ve come nowhere close to since… Losing ~2 months of training for the following lurgy and then something similar for a self-imposed knee tendon strain, the best I’ve managed recently is 405W up the Paterburg “wall” before blowing up horribly.
I’d love to do a 500W+ 1min again, even just as a one-off during a ride, but realistically I think I’m a long way from managing that.

I’ve been paying more attention to doing more frequent 30min+ efforts of late, because I think I got too fixated with 20min efforts and using the 95% figure for an ftp estimate, which is bringing about some positive adaption… On Monday, I did my best ever 39mins of 284W during London stage 1.

I don’t believe for a second that all other riders out there train and interval for 1 min power like this, they’re not there sessioning climbs, well, I don’t think so anyway.

At the beginning of this year my “build training” was Sprint, 30s, 1 mins and 3 mins intervals repeats.   Its the equivalent of XCO, cross, Crit vs XCM, Bolt vs Farrah.

XCO/Crit – laps of short climbs or features, acceleration out of corners, overtake manoeuvres and sprint for the win.

4-24hr gives toward lower power but you train toward power sustained over a long period.

Thats why I’m doing 4hrs on Zwift in Z2 tomorrow, I’m building mitichondrial support for later training in Z3/4 to support longer distance at higher powers.

Wasnt the most ideal route for it, but did some short intervals up the timed inclines and a couple of sprint zones on the Richmond UCI route, such a lap of two halves, almost pancake flat and then a brutal roller-coaster towards the end if you fancy torturing your legs.

Crit City events for this event only “world” have finally been scheduled, gutted to only check times when I got in from work at 1425 to find a race there at 1430. Next one at 1730.

Not sure what I’m going to do yet this afternoon, stage 3 London times are a bit sporadic today, might put on some virtual weight to take part in the Clydesdale race at 1505.

There’s a new Crit circuit for the fat lads!!!

https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=278423

Gutted to not have won it if I’m honest. I should have powered harder in the last 500m. Shame too as the winner is ranked 10th in C overall rankings and would have been a great scalp for me. But can’t complain, looks like it should bump me up the rankings too.

Didn’t think I’d have any legs after a very wet and muddy rude yesterday but they seemed happy to go round in circles.

I don’t believe for a second that all other riders out there train and interval for 1 min power like this, they’re not there sessioning climbs, well, I don’t think so anyway.

Well, for a start, everyone has different physiological start-point, so some riders will have a naturally higher one-minute or five-minute power relative to their FTP / 20-minute output, so they can either kick harder, or maintain the same power but without working as hard. So that’s your baseline.

Beyond that, some people are going to train using interval sessions that both aim to increase their AC (one minute power), but also to produce it repeatedly and to be able to recover faster from that effort while somewhere around FTP.

I don’t race on Zwift, but I do quite a lot of interval stuff both because if you don’t do top-end work, you lose it as you get older and, it also translates quite nicely into hilly mountain biking, where you have to kick hard over a short, technical climb say, then recover again.

Some people are wired that way. Some aren’t. But if you don’t train it, you’re stuck with whatever your natural level is enhanced by any coincidental training / efforts you make. That’s how I see it anyway. Personally I kind of like the process, there’s something quite interesting about the way a relatively small amount of intense, targeted work makes a significant difference. If I were you, I’d probably do that stuff out of curiosity and see where it goes, but I get that you’re not really motivated by training. Then again t might make your races more interesting 🙂