Hilly race for me today, 10:40 Team ZWC Hill Climb Battle – Watopia Mountain 8 went up the KOM reverse, had planned on forwards, only ever done the reverse once, thought ill do 20 minutes as hard as i can and recover on the down and try and chase anyone down on the flat, which is sort of how it went, did about bang on 300w for 20 minutes up the climb, kept 3/4 B’s in sight, about 10 seconds in front, knew id be able to bridge on the downhill, then it went right up to the radio tower, and i was shot, power dropped and the 3/4 got away, over a minute, long gone, got passed by another B and a couple of C’s, but then had fun on the down and flat chasing them down, got 2 of the C’s on the downhill and hauled another in on the flat, who stayed with me for a couple of km, but i kicked with 400m to go and he couldn’t follow, couldn’t catch the B, was 30 seconds in front, decent workout, last of 6 in B on ZP but they were not very far down the road,

https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=246906

https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=246940

La Guardia for me, 6 lapper.

End of lap 5 me and another guy lost the wheel of group and that was that. We got caught near the line and both lost a place or 2…. but worked VERY hard and as requested by the STW training experts i stayed on for 12 mins at 50-60% FTP and did the fatigue training.

Dead now !

@mtbqwerty assuming you’re not a monster you should be fine. Although if it’s a singlering 30T maybe not ;0) I ran an old triple with 42×11 which was nowhere near maxed out on cadence.

LOL @weeksy I don’t think many/any are claiming to be experts ;0) It just seems to be consistent advice from various sources. Your power looks like it’s coming back too.

Expert enough for me mate. I’ll take that.

Power was decent yes, but that 4-5% to the line hits me hard, I averaged 176bpm for race with my max ever being 184, so almost flat chat all race lol

Back in training for me.  Used Zwift as the workout course for a 30s test.  After 3 1000w activation sprints and a 550w “80%” effort I thought I’d flunk the test, but 7 mins of recovery later and I averaged 692w beating my prior record. Felt a bit sick at the end.

On Wednesday is where it all starts to go wrong for my power profile – the 5 min test.

Lol that’s massive !!!!

692W! Ouch. Nice work.

Nice work Kryton 💪🏻 Even better as w/kg too no doubt 😎

@weeksy Well done 👏🏻 Keep a note of the HR/wattage. The same power will get easier as time goes on in which case you know you’ve bumped up your ftp and you can go harder still 🤣

I find the TR version of that idea incredibly rewarding to complete. Hardest Z2 you’ll ever do!!!

TBH, only the first 4-5 mins were really tough, after that i settled in at 144bpm and things seemed fairly OK.. I wasn’t working in ERG etc so the power was up and down, but was trying to keep it consistently in the 140-160w bracket. Strava actually states about 170 if i look at that section on the graph.

May need a slightly longer race then to really empty the tanks.

Found the one I was thinking of. An hour of 90 seconds Vo2 intervals followed by 30 mins Z2 had my HR at 155bpm/220w for the Z2. The Z2 ride earlier that week had me at 220w for 124bpm !!!

They are really effective sessions 💪🏻

How do people find the ramp test vs normal ftp? I failed to complete an FTP last time but found the ramp test more achievable, however 285 to 312W was a much bigger jump than i was expecting.

How do people find the ramp test vs normal ftp? I failed to complete an FTP last time but found the ramp test more achievable, however 285 to 312W was a much bigger jump than i was expecting.

Best thing is to forget the previous test and use the 312W as the benchmark for your next FTP test. I think a ramp test will tend to leave you high but is useful to establish a base level for future tests and improvements

Ramp test significantly overestimates my FTP, if I’m honest. But then again I’m lazy and reluctant to actually do the 20 minute one more than once in a lifetime.

I would have previously agreed with that but my last Trainerroad ramp test was -20w on the NP I’d been managing for 1h15 in real rides. So I ignored it and carried on training at my self assessed number.
I think whichever one you choose, you need to use it to help inform your training rather than treat it as gospel.

My highest ever ftp was after a 20min test and in hindsight I think I’d gone so deep that it wasn’t a true reflection of what I could do, because the next block of training was horrendous and I had to knock 10w off a couple of weeks later to get through workouts.

Found the one I was thinking of. An hour of 90 seconds Vo2 intervals followed by 30 mins Z2 had my HR at 155bpm/220w for the Z2. The Z2 ride earlier that week had me at 220w for 124bpm !!!

They are really effective sessions

what’s the thinking behind this? is it just to add volume but in an effective zone? or is there some adaptation benefit of staying on after riding hard?

I’m sure I’ve heard about them talk about it in the TR podcast, probably Nate?

TBH, only the first 4-5 mins were really tough, after that i settled in at 144bpm and things seemed fairly OK.. I

yer i get that, i do 5 minutes easy after races but any longer and my minds wondering

I think the theory is something like, in the race you use up all your glucose/glycogen stores, so when you do a base level ride stright after you’re doing it on empty… which helps with …. somethin 🙂

Yeah, i think in reality its probably more like 300.
Just seems odd that averaging 250/min (going from 100 to 400 in 16 mins) over the ramp test gives the same ftp as averaging 328W for 20 mins?

this podcast ep1, has info about zwift racing and plateauing

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-never-going-pro-podcast/id1471654841

I’ve plateaued without doubt, but doesn’t change the enjoyment i get from the racing… Could i improve if i trained with a lot more structure, probably… but i wouldn’t, because i’d have killed myself by the 2nd workout/session.

Racing on Zwift gives me something ‘else’ even if it’s not the best training. I must admit, I’d like to get a gold again that’s for sure. I’m missing trophies badly…. but tactically i’m struggling to work out what else to do in a race. For the first 1/2 i’m comfortable every race, but not that comfortable that i could be in the group ahead (if there is one, there often isn’t) but after that 1/2 way point a ramp up in pace often kills me.

To date, I’ve found the Zwift Ramp Test overestimate my FTP by ~10% compared to 95% of a 20min effort.

I sometimes use it simply as a quick, low fatigue workout, it’s far kinder than doing Emily’s Short Mix based on my most recent 20min FTP figure.

Under normal circumstances, I can just complete the 400W interval on the ramp test, on a very good day outdoors having not done many efforts, I can just about average ~500W for 1min after focusing on 1min efforts for a few weeks.

Sadistically looking forward to some turbo sessions after a short break, but equally, the break has encouraged me to try and get a routine of daily outdoor 30min+ hill rep rides going again in this cool snap.

Just done my first group ride. It’s to get me eventually into doing some racing. That’s the ultimate goal.

I rode an E getup event. “Herd” I think it was.

It was bloody hard once it got into the mountains. Don’t think I’ve been up a 14 % gradient before. Most of the race I was solo,couldn’t hold on to the large groups. Did manage to get a bit of drafting from the odd passer by though!

Finished in the top 16% of my category or something it said?

Basically I was well happy as I wasn’t last. Chuffed!👍

Not tried the ramp test or (a power meter outdoors). I only use FTP to guide power for training so I suppose it doesn’t matter what you do as long as you are consistent. I know people who adjust their turbo vs. real world power zones accordingly.

I think I enjoy the FTP test but then I also like time trials and hill climbs so I’m probably an “outlier” on the fun graph.

I use the TR ramp test which is slightly different to the Zwift one I’ve seen. The step up is a percentage of current FTP rather than a fixes amount (assuming I’ve looked a the correct Zwift one previously).
Much prefer it to the 20 or 8 minute FTP tests as I’m unlikely to do those. I’d say it was fairly accurate when accompanied by doing TR workouts afterwards. They are hard and I sometimes have to knock a few % off or even pack them in but external stress factors are also affecting performance. When I feel fine I generally don’t fail them.
My outside FTP doing a TT was within a few watts of the tested one albeit on a different Power Meter.
Consistently using the same protocol is a key element.
But also consider as above it won’t suit everybody.

So this Zwift racing lark, how is it translating for you guys in real world events & rides?

I mean, like if you’re averaging say 300W on a Zwift “ride” and that’s a similar perceived effort (or even measured) how is that translating in pace on the road and off road (harder to judge), where are you positioning in race cats etc?

If not racing, but replicating power output, what are the average speeds, strava rankings etc as a method for real world measurement comparison?

Nice work Kryton 💪🏻 Even better as w/kg too no doubt

Cheers lol.  I’m in weight loss mode at the moment so currently that’s 8.8w/kg and at target weight it’d be 9.2w/kg.  And that’s the baseline for improvement.

Steveb_77 I’ve found my Zwift races to be under my real life comparable Watts which I attribute to the turbo heat / cooling / rolling resistance thing.

Of the few races I’ve done I’ve averaged about 3.3wkg but I’m about 3.7wkg outdoors in xco.

I’m faster and more powerful than I’ve ever been utilising consistent indoor use over last 2 winters on Zwift and Traineroad. I’m using racing this year to replace a session a week and hopefully keep interest in training longer into Spring rather than getting a bit bored by end of Feb.
I could really do with more volume but I don’t have the time to consistently get outdoors for 4 hours.
Just racing will get you to a level but then you’ll likely plateau and not get any faster

Got one of those bargain, Smart 43″ Argos Hisense Ultra 4k tv’s today. £249. Got to say, even sat near the screen the picture quality in 4k is bloody good. Fortunately the pc can run this res fine, Zwift is hardly state of the art graphics… The difference coming from HD is pretty stunning.

Combined with a £12 table from eBay and an el cheapo wireless keyboard and mouse.

I’m assuming you live alone Poopscoop?

My missus’d go bonkers at wallpaper like that 😀

That room is room 101. I’m allowed to go feral. Biking is just one of about 4 hobbies in there. If I showed you how much is packed into the room you might pass out.

I close the door when we have company…😆

Ramp test tonight 1 watt more than my best 20 minute effort in last weeks race.

Sorry guys, another daft question…

If I want to climb the Epic KOM, which is the shortest route to get to it? Want to have some energy left by the time I get to its start.lol

Thanks guys!

Choose the Pretzel I’d say. That will take you straight there from the main Watopia start/finish banner.

If I want to climb the Epic KOM, which is the shortest route to get to it? Want to have some energy left by the time I get to its start.lol

What trainer are you using? It isn’t that bad for a climb as I have a Tacx Flux so it cant simulate the gradient so all that happens is the avatar goes very slowly whilst I pedal away but it isn’t anywhere near as tiring as a similar gradient would be in real life (this is due to the trainer not the in game physics)

I’ve always used “Mountain” or the steeper “Mountain8” to climb up to the radio tower.

Debating event for today.

There’s the 14:35 i can just about get home and kitted up in time for. Sand and Sequoias though which takes in the Titan climby bit and i struggle on massively.

There’s also the 16:10 which is on the much flatter Tick Tock course, which suits me better, but is a chunk longer….

Which of my weaknesses do i pick to train today… distance or hill… Short and fast is far more ‘me’ …. but i guess training on my not strong suits helps….

If you get better going up this will help your flat work as well as flat is typical lower intensity.

Though to be fair so will getting used to going longer.

The titans rollers do give you the option to practice efficiency over the rollers. If you power up to a higher rpm as you hit the bottom before the incline kicks in you can often drift to the front of a pack without having to dig into to hard on the steeper bit. You can easily grab seconds worth of road doing that.

Ok, I need to beat 320w over 5 mins tonight and my physiological power is poor over this duration.

Any (general) tips other than imagine I’m going up a big hill?

Krypton, what I do is start off at my comfortable cadence, so about 88 to 90 and in the drops. Last two minutes I’d then go to the tops and use a slower cadence simulating a hill climb.
I’m on a Wattbike so it’s nice and easy to increase the resistance smoothly without losing power.
Not sure that’s an approved technique for a test though?

1 more post to hit 12,000.

12,000 posts – that’s an impressive topic Weeksy.

I bet you never expected that 3 years ago when you started it?