Don’t know

I’m going to be blunt with you here and say that doesn’t really surprise me. Anyway, the question was at deviant.

Where is the value in that statement?

that somebody postulated that you cannot do anything about your height, but I am not sure that is correct. Given that over time average heights are tending to increase in the western world and this has been attributed to health and nutrition. Then you could argue that an individuals health and nutrition during growth could influence their height, therefore a person could do something about their height, in early life..
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1570677X03001011
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1095643302002945

What I am saying is that is likely to be a mistake to remove the social stigma against being fat.

I see, so given your intellectual leviathan status, how do you propose those people who are fat through endocrine disorders cope with this social stigma? Do they carry have to carry an NHS verified card saying, its ok to bait the fatty, but not me because I’ve got a note?

I am not sure how much foresight goes jnto the Foresight report (sorry Ernie,, nothing personal). Biology aside, seems like a lot of fancy words that basically present different things that affect an individual’s choice or how they put it, physiological drive. People have essentially made choices in relation to all these concepts for a very long time. Some with good results and some with bad ones.

Yes, there are lots of factors involved but one common thread – people largely have the freedom to respond to nearly all of them. Whether it’s riding a berm, hitting a tennis ball, writing a letter, eating a super-sized mac etc, lots of factors are involved, it it is how we respond that largely determines the result. The human brain has always been remarkably capable at distilling it all down to simple decisions with or without complex maps to help.

Just played tennis (half term) – good choice – but followed this up with a ice cream – bad choice – tempered by the fact that it was a fruit sorbet style one ( ok, moderately bad choice that I could “pretend” was #6 in my daily mix ). No one forced any of these choices in me. I only have myself to blame that the bad choices > the good ones. Still there’s time for a run yet!!!!

Sorry if you meant me,but I thought we’d tried all the fallacies of logical argument (straw men,rhetoric over logic etc) and thought that comparing toys to Mourinho was par for the course.

What do you think would happen were I to consume a say, 500-1000 calorie a day excess in (total) vegetables for a few months, and then swapped over for a few months to a similar excess in (total) butterscotch yumyums? Would I gain more weight on the yumyum diet (as fun as if might be) or on the nothing but veg diet?

When you can answer that DD then you can make your mind up.
I don’t know the answer either, I do know it is complex, maybe the calories in/out crowd are right, I don’t know. I’m not sure how they now as they have not proved anything. i am merely trying to point out that it appears more complex than it looks, and that being bigoted about it does not help in anyway.

I am not sure how much foresight goes jnto the Foresight report (sorry Ernie,, nothing personal). Biology aside, seems like a lot of fancy words …..

No need to apologize THM, that after all was my point. Lots of fancy words when just “bone idleness” would have done.

I see so how do those people who are fat through endocrine disorders cope with this social stigma? Do they carry have to carry an NHS verified card saying, its ok to bait the fatty, but not me because I’ve got a note?

maybe, or a colored walking stick?

But look at the influence of trashy magazines like Hello and how the imagery in them influences a lot of the population.

If Katy Price became fat and made it look good enough that Hello magazine put her on the front cover then I bet the queues outside McDonalds would increase pronto.

But back to my original point – you don’t become fat overnight and you have enough time to figure out that something is wrong and that maybe you should stop eating the stuff that makes you fat, or that you should go see the doctor because you have a medical condition.

But there is another problem because, as we have seen, the NHS might not have the funds to treat you because they are spending so much treating people who haven’t taken any responsibility for their own health.

maybe, or a colored walking stick?

I am so glad I am not as intelligent as you.

In all seriousness,I’m a bit stuck here.I agree with toys etc that bigotry and insult reduce people’s self esteem,making dealing with their problems,including weight,more difficult.I also agree that the nature of a person’s diet,and any medical problems,modify the seemingly simple eat less move more equation,but I know a lot of people who complain about being fat,but do not seem to connect it with their preferred breakfast being two Greggs steak slices,a Mars bar and a diet coke.People seem to abnegate personal responsibility for their problems too easily.

What do you think would happen were I to consume a say, 500-1000 calorie a day excess in (total) vegetables for a few months, and then swapped over for a few months to a similar excess in (total) butterscotch yumyums? Would I gain more weight on the yumyum diet (as fun as if might be) or on the nothing but veg diet?

I will talk a confident guess at the yumyum diet bringing more weight gain – plus probably diabetes.

When my sister was at school she had a friend who modeled for one of those teeny mags – in their photo-stories.

She reckoned you could eat loads of fatty foods, as long as you didn’t have much sugar as this seemed to put the weight on. She was stick thin.

It does seem that, for me at least, this holds some truth – it is the sugary stuff that is worse.

ill talk a confident guess at the yumyum diet bringing more weight gain – plus probably diabetes.

Which essentially undermines the calories in calories out model.

It does seem that, for me at least, this holds some truth – it is the sugary stuff that is worse.

So perhaps now that you have learned something, you can apologise for the bigotry and insult?

I am so glad I am not as intelligent as you.

as you thought I was serious then I won’t dispute your supposition…

Exactly my point (for toys’ benefit, I don’t know the exact answer but I know which would result in more gain). It’s a bit more complicated than deviant’s calories imbalance theory. To be fair, I thought we all knew that – but it seems it still gets rolled out (or have I been trolled) by posters who then paint others as being “in denial”.

for toys’ benefit, I don’t know the exact answer but I know which would result in more gain

It’s all right DD I never ask for evidence if it confirms my bias. 😀

as you thought I was serious then I won’t dispute your supposition…

ha ha

What do you think would happen were I to consume a say, 500-1000 calorie a day excess in (total) vegetables for a few months, and then swapped over for a few months to a similar excess in (total) butterscotch yumyums? Would I gain more weight on the yumyum diet (as fun as if might be) or on the nothing but veg diet?

You’ll be taking in an excess of calories with both models and would probably gain some weight….

….seeing as the calories tied up in yumyums is simple sugar you’ll probably not get through that instant release of energy quickly enough and end up putting on more weight than with the excess in veg which is (generally) a slower release form of energy for the body to use.

That was easy….and nothing we didnt already know.

Who on earth is advocating an extreme diet of one food stuff to the exclusion of others?
It comes down to a balanced diet and gauging how many calories you as an individual need for a typical day/week etc etc….then start to tinker if you’re putting on weight (or losing it) against your wishes etc

Nobody is saying that 2500 calories a day of sugar is the same as 2500 calories a day of protein….we know that sugars affect the body differently to fat or protein, the energy peaks and crashes would be hideous
There is an assumption when talking about diet that an individual is not being so stupid as to eat yumyums constantly throughout the day.

🙄

Mixed diet, take some exercise, find what your calorie limit is for maintaining a constant weight….its not difficult.

Grum, from that article you linked to:
Bottom Line: Saying that weight gain is caused by excess calories is true, but meaningless. It tells you nothing about the actual cause.

The article cant make up its mind, in the above snippet it says what several of us have already said: that an excess of calories causes weight gain….it then tries to tell you that this is the cause but actually isnt…or some other mealy mouthed nonsense?….it talks about certain foods filling you up more than others, some foods stopping the hunger signals sooner than others and how crash dieting can cause the body to hold onto fat, that 100gms of sugar will be used differently by the body than 100gms of protein etc etc….none of this is new information.

All you’re saying here is that you can’t cope with any kind of nuanced argument and you need everything to be reduced down to a very basic premise that fits neatly with your prejudices.

Mixed diet, take some exercise, find what your calorie limit is for maintaining a constant weight….its not difficult.

Well it’s getting rather complicated for me now……..I thought you just had to eat less?

Which essentially undermines the calories in calories out model.

which I never proposed at any point in this thread.

Which essentially undermines the calories in calories out model.

It does seem that, for me at least, this holds some truth – it is the sugary stuff that is worse.

So perhaps now that you have learned something, you can apologise for the bigotry and insult?

can’t quite see the link ?

What have I learnt that I did write on the thread myself, that means that I should apologize ?

9 pages of the usual arguments, have we worked out who is actually fattest yet?

Ya gotta love an STW diet thread, they’re great entertainment.

ernie_lynch – Member

Well it’s getting rather complicated for me now……..I thought you just had to eat less?

You do.

….but if you need it spelling out then i’m happy to help.

Find your calorie limit that allows you to maintain a constant weight….then eat less of it to reduce your weight.
Its almost like magic and works the other way if you’re trying to gain weight.

Find your calorie limit that allows you to maintain a constant weight….then eat less of it to reduce your weight.

but weren’t you saying that if you eat something that loads you up with calories/sugar quickly then your body is going to need to deal with the excess and will store it as fat, whereas something that releases the energy more slowly might avoid the fat generation stage.

And if you have stored that fat earlier then you might end up eating more than you calorie limit later as you are hungry and it is not so simple/quick for your body to release those fat stores, or at least not quick enough to stop you being hungry.

So eating slow release foods, like porridge, might be beneficial?

but if you need it spelling out then i’m happy to help.

Find your calorie limit that allows you to maintain a constant weight….then eat less of it to reduce your weight.

But you also said :

Nobody is saying that 2500 calories a day of sugar is the same as 2500 calories a day of protein

🙁

So eating slow release foods, like porridge, might be beneficial?

Why the pedant mode?…this might, just might come under ‘mixed diet’ dont you think?

I said in a previous post that only an idiot would eat certain food groups to the exclusion of others, i thought i illustrated it simply enough when i said that only a stupid person would get all their calories from yumyums throughout the day.

With regard to hunger, yes that is often part and parcel of losing weight…we have brains and can decide not to eat when hungry, hunger is not a sensation that has to be acted on, people can exercise some discipline and go without for a while.

🙄

Dont worry boys, one day they will prove that being bigoted is not something you can choose to do, you just can’t help it. So then us bigot baiters will be the bad guys.

Argualympians be arguing….

😐

Find your calorie limit that allows you to maintain a constant weight….then eat less of it to reduce your weight.
Its almost like magic and works the other way if you’re trying to gain weight.

Hmmm…a little more complicated that…

I said in a previous post that only an idiot would eat certain food groups to the exclusion of others, i thought i illustrated it simply enough when i said that only a stupid person would get all their calories from yumyums throughout the day.

So it’s not as simple as how much you eat, but what you eat ?

I thought I said that at the start of the thread ?

EDIT : I did, six pages ago :

ernie_lynch – Member

I thought the increase in obesity was more connected with the fact that we are now eating different food to what we were a few decades ago, rather than an increase in quantity of food…..

Posted 3 days ago

Ha ha Tea and Medals to DD for coming up with that peach of a poser.
two down..

So then us bigot baiters will be the bad guys.

I bl88dy hate bigot baiters, although I am not sure why…

Dont worry boys, one day they will prove that being bigoted is not something you can choose to do, you just can’t help it

I am not sure about that – but anyway.

My fatist tendencies started I think when I watched a documentary about liposuction.

The surgeon had this naked fat girl lying on the slab and he drew on her with felt tip pen along the lines he was going to tuck in, once he had sucked out the fat.

He then proceeded to make a cut in her buttock and push in this stainless steel pipe, like the hose from a dyson, into her and then turn it on. It was a fight getting it in and he had to shove a lot, with her fat posterior wobbling about in sympathy.

The tube from the pipe was transparent and you could see all the light brown fat being sucked out 🙄

Then my girlfriend at Uni was studying medicine and came back and described how they dissected a (dead) fat guy that day, and had to surround the operating table with buckets to catch the fat running out.

That sounds terrible TurnerGuy – have you hated fat people ever since ?

Hold on a sec. I can’t be overweight. I can’t stand yumyums, they have nuts on which make me ill!

That sounds terrible TurnerGuy – have you hated fat people ever since ?

I don’t hate them, just am wary of them…

It wasn’t a nice image.

Something like this, but the women was fatter and the tube he used wasn’t as slim :

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy_drAzlVVQ[/video]

I don’t hate them, just am wary of them..

What are you wary about – that they might spread their fat onto you ?

.toys19 – Member
Dont worry boys, one day they will prove that being bigoted is not something you can choose to do, you just can’t help it. So then us bigot baiters will be the bad guys.

Or put another way agree with toys R us or your a bigot. Bigot appears to be your word for the day…every day!!
I think people who are fat eat to much…opps that makes me a bigot or possibly Toy R us is a fan of censorship?