• This topic has 71 replies, 40 voices, and was last updated 14 years ago by tron.
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  • YOur suggestions for saving money for the NHS?
  • mikewsmith
    Free Member

    shoot smokers?

    mafiafish
    Free Member

    "Massive sentences for drug dealing."
    Untill smoking is banned I find this morally wrong. It's the user's fault if they die not the dealer.
    Why do we have to cut one of the western world's cheapest healthcare systems anyway?

    TheSouthernYeti
    Free Member

    Promote smoking!

    Cut back on treatment for smoking related illnesses though. Let 'em die and we may have found a solution to the pension crisis too.

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    avdave2
    Full Member

    4 million is 0,004% of the budget.

    Well reduce it to 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000004%
    and it will start to work. it' clearly to concentrated.Reduce the money and it will take on magical properties.

    MrTall
    Free Member

    Having just spent 2 days in hospital (I now have type 1 Diabetes – woohoo!!) i would suggest that it may help if patients are charged for meals. Just a token charge of 50p per meal must go a long way to raising a fair bit of revenue. The NHS doesn't pay for my meals at home so why should it pay for them when i'm ill? And at a maximum of £1.50 per day each i can't see anybody having a reasonable excuse not to be able to afford it, after all, do many people exist on less than £1.50 per day for food?

    igm
    Full Member

    Well if 60% of it really goes on salaries, I feel a blanket 10% pay cut might save 6% overall – which is a lot.
    As this seems a little harsh on the lower paid employees it should probably be applied on a sliding scale such that the highest paid individuals get the highest percentage cut.
    Saves cash with no reduction in service.*

    *with the probable added benefit of the flying pig display every night, 'cos politicians will not have the guts.

    dangerousbeans
    Free Member

    igm,

    To be fair, cut everyones wages in the whole country by 10% and put all that money into the service. 😀

    As a few have said there are treatments that do little and can be cut, but there will be a high personal cost for some. Who would want to tell someone that his treatment is expensive and statistically only gives a short term life increase – I do believe that there's someone on the forum in this position at the moment.

    Personally I think his chance to a few more years with the missus is worth a lot more others having extra disposible income to buy xtr rather than xt and a new HDTV.

    AlasdairMc
    Full Member

    Close the fast food restaurants in hospitals as they're really only contributing to increased obesity.

    Increased promotion of healthy lifestyles, stopping the use of obesity as an excuse.

    tron
    Free Member

    Untill smoking is banned I find this morally wrong. It's the user's fault if they die not the dealer.

    It's a bit of an oversimplification to equate the drugs trade with the tabacco one. I certainly don't class the local newsagent who sells cancer sticks as being on the same moral plane as a dealer who may sell drugs using very dodgy tactics to very vulnerable people.

    But setting aside moral arguments, the simple fact is that junkies are expensive. They have to steal an inordinate amount of stuff to get enough money for drugs, they're largely inactive in the official economy, and we have to pay for their treatment. And I am for treatment. It seems rather daft that at the moment the government is so afraid of it that it often employs an ALMO like Turning Point.

    grantway
    Free Member

    Be a good idea to make migrants Who have not paid into the system
    to put at least £ 15,000 pounds before they get any treatment
    and after 5 years they will recieve free treatment.

    Sponging-Machine
    Free Member

    a dealer who may sell drugs using very dodgy tactics to very vulnerable people.

    That's pretty much my perspective on Tobacco companies.

    Zulu-Eleven
    Free Member

    Withdraw NHS treatment from anyone unless their National Insurance Stamp was up to date?

    (theres a nice old fashioned phrase you don't hear any more) 😀

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Some fine ideas in here. I think we may be on to something

    Reduce the length of NHS gowns by 2 inches. Think of the miles of fabric saved and should be a bit of a laugh (which according to the Readers' Digest is the best medicine of all).

    Anyone injured through a DIY related accident should only be provided with the materials to patch themselves up

    Both of these should be adopted immediatly

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    grantway – Member

    Be a good idea to make migrants Who have not paid into the system
    to put at least £ 15,000 pounds before they get any treatment
    and after 5 years they will recieve free treatment.
    Migrants either have to come from a country that we have reciprocal arrangements with ( so we get free treatment in their countries) or have been resident and paying NI for a year to get free NHS treatment IIRC

    tron
    Free Member

    a dealer who may sell drugs using very dodgy tactics to very vulnerable people.

    That's pretty much my perspective on Tobacco companies. [/quote]

    I know of someone who's a drug dealer. Amongst other things, he convinces his female customers to become prostitutes, with him as their pimp. I really can't see the equivalence. When I say very dodgy tactics, I mean preying on the vulnerabilities of abused teenagers and the like. Not giving out free jackets that say "Drugs are ace" and sticking their names on Ferraris.

    Be a good idea to make migrants Who have not paid into the system
    to put at least £ 15,000 pounds before they get any treatment
    and after 5 years they will recieve free treatment.

    Several EU laws make that impossible for much of our immigrant population. For what it's worth, illegal immigrants often work under someone elses' NI number, so they do end up "paying into the system".

    Zulu-Eleven
    Free Member

    Augustus – surely if we're going to skimp on hemlines, it should be by reintroducing proper nurses uniforms?

    westkipper
    Free Member

    More seriously, one of the ways that the NHS could save money long term isfor goverment to restrict or discourage car use*.
    The timebomb that we are beginning to see in this country of obesity, heart disease, diabetes and others is not unrelated to the low exercise, convenience lifestyle that is only made possible by mass car use.
    * It'll never happen though.

    tron
    Free Member

    More seriously, one of the ways that the NHS could save money long term isfor goverment to restrict or discourage car use.

    Kind of agree. I don't think we need to restrict car use. Just encourage other ways of getting around. Cities tend to have some bike stands, but small towns don't. The other thing that's needed is to remove the fear / threat of crime. I can see a lot of people driving short distances due to that.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Zulu – I don't think me crickey, and dangerous beans will really suit that uniform

    tron – every £ spent on treating junkies saves £7 in criminal justice ( I have seen quoted)to say nothing of what preventing illness in them saves.

    Another area where what looks like a sensible saving would actually cost the country more in the long run.

    I would just give all junkies as much smack as they want – it would be cheaper for the country and would legitimise a cash crop in afghanistan

    zaskar
    Free Member

    5th you only have 2 years to live so we're not operating on you unless you pay £2 million up front in cash in 30 minutes.

    BillyWhizz – Member

    My suggestion – A big fine for people who make Dr's appointments and don't turn up. According to my local surgery, it averages 170 appointents a week.

    The only exceptions would be people who have a Dr's note excusing them . . . .

    Can I fine the surgery for messing up my appts too? only fair right?

    theboatman
    Free Member

    Hospitals to do half day closing on a wednesday?

    mafiafish
    Free Member

    Car use is a good point. further subsidy of cycle to work and an increase in cyclist favourable traffic law would be great.

    grantway
    Free Member

    Not so Barclat Augustus
    We dont get reinburst or do other countrys give us free treatment
    as when we are in other countrys this country requests you to take
    what they call a medical passport so when you need treatment abroad
    they have some means to claim from other than that they may refuse treatment.

    My wife works for the NHS and had many years working in the private sector
    But not in medical but in finance.
    What she says is unbelievable firstly at the moment the NHS are breaking and splitting the departments to try and save money but take a look at this.
    In the offices each department has the below.
    The Directors get in the region of £ 100,000 a year
    and then you have a sub Director on around £ 60,000 per person
    Then you have the secerteries IE PA £ 80,000. per person
    then the office staff approx 4 person plus at around £ 24,000 per person
    Also you may have a few contractors brought in for short projects
    on around £ 800.00p plus a week.
    Also if a Director is brought in from another part of the country the
    NHS on top of there salary will pay for accomadation IE Hotel,Houseor
    appartment which will average between one week to several months.

    Also you have to consider the rush to get PFI funded buildings and boy
    the charges are stupid.
    Firstly you have the contract of maintainance the contractor here does not do the work but gets in outside contractors to do the work.
    And basically with these new buildings the NHS maintanance team IE
    in your area cannot do any drilling in the property and any works
    you have to right a works sheet on how to assemble a cabinet to work in these new buildings.
    Idea of cost to put a picture up on the wall will cost the tax payer
    on the new rate of £ 65 pounds this was last year charged £ 80 pounds.

    On average the NHS matainance skilled guy say an electrician is paid
    in London £ 520.00p per week We pay double for these new PFI buildings.
    And the NHS for some reason are trying to get rid of there own maintainance teams My wife thinks its down to them shown as fixed charges
    and paying Holidays and sickness pay as with the contractor you dont
    But MAD as you will always need maintainance.
    Also with the above buildings you will find that the Hospital will close wards because after all the costs etc they shut them as they cant offord the running costs from the contractors.

    After all the above charges you then may get your appointment.

    uplink
    Free Member

    Clone Harold Shipman?

    Coat, door – don't bother seeing me out 😀

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    rantway – Member

    Not so Barclat Augustus
    We dont get reinburst or do other countrys give us free treatment
    as when we are in other countrys this country requests you to take
    what they call a medical passport so when you need treatment abroad
    they have some means to claim from other than that they may refuse treatment.

    simply wrong.

    owenfackrell
    Free Member

    Money could be saved if when trusts are allowed to develop and get work done ( ie new buildings) the goverment give the trust the money and allow them control over when to pay the contractors so that defects can be picked up and rectified rather than as it is now, that you have to pay them by a certain date to get the money.

    joemarshall
    Free Member

    I've been a visiting health tourist scumbag* in Australia, New Zealand and France, without paying any cash except prescription charges, cos of the reciprocal agreements that we have with them.

    Well if 60% of it really goes on salaries, I feel a blanket 10% pay cut might save 6% overall – which is a lot.
    As this seems a little harsh on the lower paid employees it should probably be applied on a sliding scale such that the highest paid individuals get the highest percentage cut.
    Saves cash with no reduction in service.*

    I'm not convinced that cutting people's pay by 10% has no effect on how well or efficiently people do their jobs, or how many people apply for the jobs as people quit or are replaced. I reckon if you read up on it, you'd probably find that great big pay cuts have a positive impact for the first few months, but the massive deterioration in morale probably reduces the efficiency and ups the turnover of staff enough to outweigh the advantages pretty quickly.

    Joe

    *I've had bizarre accidents and put myself in A&E whilst working / on holiday in those countries

    woody2000
    Full Member

    With regard to NHS pay cuts – doesn't it just set up a bizarre vicious circle? Let's not forget that the NHS is one of the largest employers in the country, reduce pay and you also reduce tax income, so possibly a little self-defeating.

    brack
    Free Member

    1.Get rid of the utterly riddiculous response times…as stated earlier an over resourcing total waste of finances!
    2.Introduce a payment system for all emergency treatment – if the 'emergency' required an ambulance and was necessary then the payment is refunded (this would take a simple decision by the A and E Doctor).This would dramatically reduce a massive proportion of the dross that our highly trained Paramedics have to break their necks to get to in 8 mins.
    3.Integrate the out of hours GP service closer to other services – at the momment they are a law unto themselves and seem happy to take their inflated overtime wages but simply burden other health professionals with their wriggling and visiting avoidance.
    4.Now this one really is basic!! All medical attendances by ambulance crews should be forwarded onto the patients GP – it may not stop unnescessary A and E attendance but at least this way someone is monitoring the situation.

    5thElefant
    Free Member

    With regard to NHS pay cuts – doesn't it just set up a bizarre vicious circle? Let's not forget that the NHS is one of the largest employers in the country, reduce pay and you also reduce tax income, so possibly a little self-defeating.

    You seem to be suggesting we pay state employees extra so we can tax them? I like it. I think all bin men should be paid £1,000,0000,000,000,000,000 a day. At 40% tax we'll be able to pay off the deficit in no time!!!

    woody2000
    Full Member

    Not really, it was more of a question than a statement though. What I meant was that just cutting staff pay isn't a simple calculation, we have to take into account lost tax revenue. Cutting 10% off the wage bill will demolish morale in the NHS (if that's possible), but won't save 10% in real terms, so is it worth it?

    tron
    Free Member

    woody2000 – pay cuts impacting on the general economy

    There is a multiplier effect associated with government spending – the nurses, doctors & building firms paid out of the NHS budget do not hoard all of their cash from wages. So the cash gets spent in shops etc. and an initial spend of £10k may end up having the effect of generating £20-30k in the economy.

    The problem is that the the multiplier is linked to deficit, and there's something of a tipping point where the deficit becomes so large that people anticipate tough times (ie, high tax to pay off the deficit) in the future and increase their savings, removing the impact of the multiplier. I'd argue we are already there, and that's why we can't spend our way out of the problems we have.

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