I thought there might be some decent knowledge on the forum on the subject of leg issues/weirdness in general and how this affects people’s ability and comfort when cycling, ability to use clipless pedals etc etc, and more importantly, how you’ve gotten around these issues and/or fixed them!

So, please share your messed up legs/knees/feet and how it’s affected you/your cycling and what you’ve done to combat this!

**Warning** pictures of horrible, knobbly knees and legs below. Enter at your own risk!!

I’ll start – I have ‘duck foot’ in that my feet angle out at about 35 degrees when my knees are straight. After doing some checks, the alignment issue is in the shin/tibia as my knees are straight in relation to my hips but my feet are very much not straight in relation to my knees.

Pics to illustrate the issue (and they’re worse than this normally, I’ve done some stretches this morning which has visually helped a great deal.

My natural position

Feet straight

Knees touching with feet close together

This has caused a few issues in 2 types of cycling, first on Zwift:

I was having issues with my feet expanding and I was getting severe ‘hot foot’ after 45 mins of any hard session, made worse by there being more pressure on the outside of my foot (cause by straightening my legs meaning my foot rolls to the outside).

I have helped this by using carbon soled stuff roadie shoes to reduce the pressure on the ball of my foot, and also I’ve used cleat shims to angle my foot slightly.

Second, when mountain biking:

I’ve been told a few times I ride ‘knees in’ which is due to the above, when riding with my feet fairly straight, my knees angle in towards the bike and to ride knees out I have to physically force myself to do it.

The other issue is being able to unclip, I often find if I’m sat down or in the wrong position my knees turn inwards a lot before my foot has rotated enough to unclip, even with the cleats angle ‘toe out’ as much possible, and shifted as far inboard to widen my stance.

I’m going to start doing some stretches as a few places seem to say a tight lateral hamstring can cause this, along with a few other issues. Hoping this thread might have some tips too, and the stretches help to improve things too.

Also could a mod change the title from ‘affects’ to ‘effects’? Cheers!

I’m about as duckfooted as that. Thankfully they straighten out a bit when i bend my legs. So my ankles clear the cranks when pedaling. They also move around a lot when moving through the range of motion when pedaling. So i use free floating pedals (Time) have done for decades. Any attempt to use anything else shows up (very quickly) how flawed other systems are when it comes to float. (Also makes unclipping easy, as the release load is very low on Time.)

I wear out cranks when wearing overshoes though.

when riding with my feet fairly straight

Careful doing this, if you’re forcing it, you’ll do damage to your knees, which may, or may not be permanent, or might end your cycling.

Have a guy in our club whose “coach” told him that you should always get your feet as parallel to the centreline of the bike as possible because that was most “efficient and aerodynamic”. He’s had both knees resurfaced and some surgery on other related bits of knee, and all before he hit 30. “Coach” is no longer welcome in cycling circles.

As for me tight IT bands make it worse, so does a lack of stretching. Foam roller works well when i remember.
When i was still racing a massage every 3 or 4 weeks helped massively. They can reach the bits that stretching and foam rollers can’t.

I’m also running shims to angle the cleats slightly (3 degrees in total).
Need to get some new ones as the existing shims are at least 10 years old and i don’t think i can swap them to another pair of shoes/set of cleats!

Careful doing this, if you’re forcing it, you’ll do damage to your knees, which may, or may not be permanent, or might end your cycling.

I’ve not had any knee pain even with zwifting as yet, when I say straight I mean as angled as the bike will allow – basically my heels just clearing the cranks.

I have noticed on the trainer my knees are fairly good for form, straight up and down like a piston.

It’s not a problem in normal day to day life, even running I’ve not had any issues. I can squat beyond horizontal, just have to have my feet angled out a bit. I’m 41 and don’t *touch wood have any knee pain or joint issues. I do wear out the inner area of the heel on my shoes faster than other parts though! The main reason I want to get it improved is to be able to unclip easier (trying clipless mallet pedals after a few years on flats) and to be able to ride in a better stance without having to actively tell myself to do it.

I think the issue is with my hips, but my right foot is heel in, and my left foot is heel out!

When it’s bad it looks like I’m constantly trying to clip out with my left foot, in fact at the start of the year I actually would clip out accidentally in some circumstances.

I think this is all down to my right glute not engaging so my right side gradually drifts backwards on the saddle until my entire lower body is partially rotated, and my feet are just following this pattern

Another duck-footer here. The chainstays on all my bikes show evidence of this and are taped against heel rub. To be comfortable I have to set the cleats up accordingly – I certainly don’t try to force my feet into an unnatural (for me) position.

I have knee and feet issues. Knee its roughness and instability around the patella. Cycling has strengthened my quads to the point Its hardly noticable. My feet I have osteoarthritis in my big toes. Walking hurts but cycling does not. Not very helpful. sorry

Don’t force your body into unnatural shapes for your body

knees and feet……… lol, where shall i start.

torn anterior cruciate ligament 32 years ago playing rugby. knee reconstructed.
meniscus tears in both knees, both cleaned out.
torn ligament in right ankle, with a cracked talus bone.
right ankle fusion 6 years ago.
total left hip replacement in 2017.
currently waiting for right hip replacement.

Snapped patellar tendon and ACL three months ago. Rehab is ongoing but can’t flex knee enough to turn cranks yet.
Getting a bit tedious now

Following….

Having knee surgery on Friday. Torn cartilage, damaged meniscus, arthritis in the joint. Snapped ACL, stretched MCL.  I was told I need a knee replacement but I’m too young (58).  The surgeon won’t know until I’m anaesthetised, if he’s able to do the whole lot or just keyhole on the cartilage and meniscus. He has allowed enough time for ligament reconstruction too, if he finds it’s possible/beneficial. I had to get a second opinion to be even considered for ACL reconstruction, due to my age.  Not looking forward to the rehab, but am looking forward to something like normal knee stability and reduced pain. Wish me luck!

I got (back) into MTB after 20 years of medial collateral ligament issues from rugby and football injuries, then trail running. I have restricted ankle flex especially on the left, due in part to football injuries and repeated abuse I think. I also started getting nasty quadriceps DOMS from running.

Riding 3-4 days a week seems to work fine. I think in five years I’ve yet to miss a day of biking due to a riding injury.

I don’t get muscle pains, just a bit of tiredness, except I think it’s odd that I never get any sensation of having used my calf muscles… i’m not sure if that’s to do with limited ankle flex.

So far my surgeries on legs
Right Patella stabilisation on right knee due to repeated dislocations.
Right hip bone shave and cartilage repair due to FAI
Left hip bone shave and cartilage repair due to FAI
Another go at right hip
Torn miniscus shaved left knee
Left knee ACL repair
Oh and left ankle had to be sewn up under anesthetic after a rather nasty interaction with a chainring.

Effects? I ache a lot, especially in winter!

I’ve got a knee replacement (at 48, age is actually irrelevant if you need it), several years prior to that had an arthroscopy for meniscus damage in that knee which never really helped.

After a couple of years struggling after the replacement with quad tendon pain and other swelling I went back to flats from SPDs and the benefit was immediate. My feet used to both point straight forward naturally, after the replacement, which also got rid of the bow in that lower leg my foot now is about 10degrees out. My other knee plays up from time to time, but not near needing anything done yet.

I still get knee pain and tenderness after long or tough/high torque riding especially off road, but super low gears (46/30 front, 11-42 rear) and spinning help there, though I have a habit of forgetting this and still pushing on in too hard a gear for my knee.

I did some of the ‘knees over toes guy’ exercises for a while which helped, but as usual my tendency was to over do them which didn’t help at all! Slant board squats, anterior tibialis raise, backwards walking, single leg wall sits etc. See YouTube.

I’m on this road, damaged the ligaments in both knees pretty badly as a teenager, not sure what other damage might have been done as no-one told me. Healed eventually and then I had no trouble from them until I started getting crepitis in my early/mid forties, worse in right knee. Pain has been increasing over the last few years and after a particularly brutal weekend of ebike uplift about 6 weeks ago I’ve pretty much been off the bike since as the pain in my right knee is too bad for descending. Just had them both x-rayed and am waiting to hear back on how bad it is/ the next step although would think an MRI would be required to really see what’s going on? Bit fearful for my riding future at the moment but at least the weather is crap!

I’m duck footed (or so the wife says) but no issues on the bike clipped in TBH. Never get any issue but I’ve been riding clipped in (all bikes) since I was young when Look pedals came in. My knees tell me within a couple of pedal strokes if I’ve not got the angle quite right. Always hate setting up new shoes !

My consultants didn’t bother with MRI for either the arthroscopy or knee replacement; I did have x-rays though. Possibly due to my location at the time (Shetland which meant a flight to Aberdeen), but also as they said they could see it needed doing so would see what’s what when they ‘were in there’.

That’s interesting @longdog, thanks. I’m also 48 now, how was the rehab following yours? Did you have full or partial replacement?

I’m also wondering if years of clips have been slowly damaging my knees. I changed back to flats for the last ride before I decided to take my bike to bits while I find out what’s going on, the midfoot position and also riding slightly duck footed was immediately more comfortable and took load off the knee

I’m very bow legged from apparently walking within six months. Been using Time XS Carbon pedals since 2006, still have them on commuter, but bought my first ever pair of 3-bolt pedals (Time Xpro 10s) in ’19 for the road bike… Didn’t realise how badly I’d set them up despite looking ok, ignored the early warnings niggles on a ride outside and didn’t ease up, mega sore on outside of left knee the next day and had to take things very easy for well over a month after adjusting cleat a bit.

@davosaurusrex I went in thinking I was getting a full replacement, but my surgeon (cyclist and one time Team Sky team doc) decided I could get away with a partial when he did the op.

I was off work for 4 months after the op. Work was as outdoor access officer so needed lots of driving and hiking. Rehab went well, but I was a bit too aggressive with it which lead to a massive flare up and super scary swelling at 10 weeks when I thought I’d be back at 12 weeks, hence the 16 weeks.

I had good range of motion before the op, just massive pain 24/7. For rehab I did all the recommended physio like a full time job. Got on the turbo at the end of week one just managing to turn the pedals over with no resistance for 5mins with seat up high to get ROM.

I basically did as much as I could of the recommended exercises, plus what ever walking and turbo I could do. It was after swimming that my knee went daft, I was seriously worried with the swelling and pain and went back to the hospital to get checked. Later down the road I did single leg balances/RDL and ‘knees over the toes guy’ stuff.

It was a good while before I could stand in the pedals and I have done some long road and mixed rides since (100-160km), but always suffered a lot afterwards with pain and swelling, changing to flat pedals has resolved that, but other health issues are limiting things now.

As for walking. I’ve walked a max distance of I think 16km off road since the op, but usually I feel it after 5/6km. Going down hills, especially rocky and/or steep ones can be fairly crippling and I use poles. Camping isn’t much fun any more with squatting and scrabbling about. I did a an over nighter backpack with around 10km each way off piste once and was fairly buggered after that.

I need to lose a lot of weight now which would help more…

Doesn’t sound super fun! Thanks for the info. I’m certainly not that bad as I’m not having pain anything like 24/7 but it’s deteriorating. I’m hoping arthroscopy of some description might help but does sound like it’s delaying the inevitable in many cases

I need a knee replacement too but as it is it doesn’t affect my cycling. But walking, yes. I’d love to be able to run, play rugby and football again but that’s a distant memory now.
Controlling weight is much tougher, so in the winter lots of weights, swimming and occasional rides. Have turbo set up but not keen as it’s boring.
Just add I’ve had 5 knee ops in the past through sport so the knee replacement will be the daddy of them all, so I hear.

@longdog knee arthroscopy is one of the recognised ‘low benefit’ procedures.
Research suggests it’s not necessarily a good option unfortunately:
https://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j1982

Yeh I can’t say it did an awful lot for me. It did improve things for a handful of years, but was never great. It was only 8 years later I had the replacement.

I’m convinced that my multiple arthroscopies contributed to my need for knee replacement. Much like dentists giving needless fillings.

Knees and feet are the same orientation as the OP, but cycle with feet relatively straight forward and never had an issue. A small amount of float helps in the cleats. That means the knees come closer to the top tube when cycling* but as I said, never been an issue – and that’s for over 12hrs at a time.

What I did notice most is that I used to have pain outside the knee. This is an ITB inflammation caused by over extension. That was cured, not by surgery (MRI scan showed “obvious cartilage wear…”), but by lowering the saddle a cm and moving it forward on the rails so that the ITB was not over extended. Then all problems just vanished.

Cycling is not load bearing and the strains are low compared to other activities. It is, however, VERY repetitive, so provided the biomechanics are right, there should not be any issues. Fit matters.

*As in some pros would wear the paint off the top tube when cleats were fixed.

Well, according to the GP the X-Rays aren’t conclusive enough to diagnose osteoarthritis but there are enough changes to term it “Early Degeneration” and say they are almost certainly going that way. So, for me it’s targeted physio and pain management, steroid injections if required (will avoid them as much as poss, always seem to me to be a sticking plaster that lets you do more damage), ice baths after riding etc. So not brilliant but could be worse, will try and keep pedaling for a while yet, I hope.

As in some pros would wear the paint off the top tube when cleats were fixed.

I had that until i started using the cleat shims. Both my training bike and my old race bike have patches on the top tube where the lacquer has been taken off.