Yes I'm a dickhead; but, police and legal types advice por favor

So a week or two ago I (distracted by miniVees but still completely idiotically) managed to request £50 cash-back from a self serve check out and then walk off without it; not noticing that I hadn’t got it until I tried to spend some of it the next day. I went back to the store and explained what had happened; they were very unsurprised and said that it happens all the time, and it’s usually handed in. Not this time though. So I’ve had to report it to the police, who have managed to get the CCTV of a woman happily trousering the cash without a thought in the world, before paying for her shopping by card. Brilliant, I thought. The police will just be able to get her identity from the shop/bank, and will knock on her door, she’ll give me my £50 back in exchange for not pressing charges (community resolution?) and the police will get a solved crime tick, everyone’s a winner. Except now the police investigator person is starting to suggest that they can only get the last four digits of the card number from the store and unless a PC recognises this woman I’m pretty much stuffed.

Surely in his digital age this can’t be right? Who should the police approach to find out the full bank details, instead of four useless numbers? It seems a bit surreal that you can pay by card, be seen on CCTV committing a crime, and not get caught? Weird. Any suggestions for directions I can point the civilian investigator? TIA

This is basically a bump

I think that sounds like Police for “We can’t be bothered or don’t have the time.” In fairness to the police the criminal may well not be a repeat offender or a danger to society.

On the other hand if no one knows the details of the card then how does Tesco no whose account to take the money out of?

Exact same thing happened to me. Long story short even though it was all caught on CCTV the copper did not pursue further and got annoyed when I kept referring to it as an ‘easy nick’.

Tesco doesn’t take the money out of anyones account. The bank transfers it from the customers account to Tescos.

I did similar after requesting £50 cashback at an Asda self checkout till and then walking away without the cash. Luckily someone (probably the checkout supervisor) had picked up the dosh and filed it away. I was able to get it back after showing the original receipt.

Hope you get your money back but I doubt anyone will give it much time.

To get card holder details may require a financial search warrant, which can take big hoops to jump through and may not be granted due to the low amount, whether enquiry has been done by the cctv and the severity of the crime.

If you watch the two receipts come out of a card machine whenever you pay, your copy has **** **** **** 1234 on it, but the shop’s copy has 1234 1234 1234 1234 on it.

Tesco’s system will have a record known the full card number at some point, but how or if it stores it I don’t know. What I do know, from experience, is that staff in the local branch are unlikely to be able to get the full card number with the level of access they have to the system. So it’s entirely plausible that the officer has been back to Tesco and they haven’t been able to get that information.

That said, I bet if the woman had walked out and killed someone her details would be found somehow. This might require a warrant and a trip to Tesco head office though.

It is probably possible, but whether the time and beaurocracy required is proportionate is a matter of opinion.

The problem in these matters is all about who could be arsed. Firstly tesco can trace the full number but without the transaction number (do you still have your receipt? It should be the next sequential number) it will require lots of time and they aren’t out of pocket. Then a Data Protection Act form needs to be signed off and sent to the respective bank, who generally if they aren’t out of pocket take an eternity to process the request. If the account holder is identified then hopefully a polite word but after all that investigation, about 3-4 months, paperwork, exhibits, cctv, witness statements and you start to understand why the police might roll their eyes at the suggestion of an easy Nick, especially if the account holder is wise to the law and refuses to play nice. Chances of positive ID and a lacklustre CPS means you’ve lost your £50. Soz.

… didn’t know you could get cash back from self-service tills..

though sounds like it’s not always a good idea!!

It is when it’s free!

Theft by finding is difficult. You/police have to prove there is no intent to find owner, return to owner or place it somewhere (police station etc) where the owner could get it.

The problem in these matters is all about who could be arsed. Firstly tesco can trace the full number but without the transaction number (do you still have your receipt? It should be the next sequential number) it will require lots of time and they aren’t out of pocket. Then a Data Protection Act form needs to be signed off and sent to the respective bank, who generally if they aren’t out of pocket take an eternity to process the request. If the account holder is identified then hopefully a polite word but after all that investigation, about 3-4 months, paperwork, exhibits, cctv, witness statements and you start to understand why the police might roll their eyes at the suggestion of an easy Nick, especially if the account holder is wise to the law and refuses to play nice. Chances of positive ID and a lacklustre CPS means you’ve lost your £50. Soz.

So for £50 the investigation could cost £1000s.

Assuming somebody recognised her and you collared her, she would just claim she picked it up for safe keeping and was planning to hand it in then forgot.

Stake out the place?

When the offender from the CCTV footage comes back, ‘nick em’.

May take a few man hours though….

Asda ones only.

The car park cctv might well show her getting into her car?

Shouldn’t be too difficult – she probably parked in a disabled space 🙂

Morrisons and Co-op too, for starters.

Thanks for the replies, all.

Transaction numbers for mine and the thiefs have been found, and hopefully stored, by the civvy investigator. The woman’s image has been positively linked to the taking of the money, and I’m not bothered about a conviction as such, I’d just like my £50 back and an apology would be nice but if she tried to lie about it then I’d happily assist in her prosecution. The dishonest toerag should have a lesson in good manners by having a Bobby knocking on their door, enquiring about the money that they have demonstrably taken and not returned, putting the fear of a prosecution in her. If I’d have found £50 I would have handed it in, and so should she.

I’m aware that it’s not crime of the century so not a high priority, but as all it seems to need is a data protection form filling in with a transaction number and a reason and sending to the shops HQ, it doesn’t seem to be too onerous. In fairness to the civvy investigator, she’s kept in touch, obtained the CCTV and obtained the transaction details for mine and the thiefs shopping. It seems to me that the leg work is done already, and she genuinely doesn’t know how to take the next step. She’s done all the contacting me about this; I was expecting the brush off from the start, TBH.

Visit shop same time next week, could be a routine?

I haven’t seen the footage so don’t know what she looks like, unfortunately. (Maybe fortunately; vigilante justice is frowned on in our ‘civilised’ country’ 😆

I suppose cutting holes in a newspaper and standing next to the chocolate bars would look a bit suspect 🙂

It is when it’s free! apparently the perfect crime!

Might have FTFY (though I remain optimistic that I’m wrong)

Does CCTV footage show the cash left in the machine before woman takes it? If not, it’s your word against hers. Can imagine scenario: “Yes officer, I withdrew £500 but silly me, forgot to take it!”

If it was me I’d be sending my DPA form with the transaction number to Tesco head office then. If they can provide the card number it’s easy enough to ID the cardholder, but the bank will want a warrant.

Actually, I don’t agree that you’re a dickhead an idiot. There’s a design fault in the process, and the cashback facility should be withdrawn until it’s sorted.

They’re very quick to tell us “Unexpected item in the bagging area” but not “Don’t forget your cash”.

Last month, there was a similar post on our local FB group, so it was fresh in my mind when I watched the customer in front do exactly the same thing 😯

After calling her back to pick up the cash, I went to talk to the store manager (Asda) . . . who admitted he’d lost £50 in the same way!

Does CCTV footage show the cash left in the machine before woman takes it?

As I’ve said; I haven’t seen footage myself, but the civvy investigator seems to think it’s fairly cut and dry.

People are creatures of habit , go back to the supermarket around the same time next week – don’t forget your bombers .

Actually, I don’t agree that you’re a dickhead an idiot.

Thank you; still feel one though. And it seems likely I’ll be a £50 poorer idiot.

Wish you were behind me that day, Esme x

Thanks TGA. I’ll politely suggest that as a next step to the civvy. Feels she may be just out of her depth a little.

Police can get the details if they want too from the woman’s last 4 digits on the card receipt via the corresponding bank / financial institution by way of a production order.

Take picture of cctv video of the woman and set a few posters up with her face on it and shame her into giving cash back. Just put that you don’t want to prosecute if the cash is returned

What a shame.

Years ago I was waiting behind a guy at a cash machine and when it was my turn there was a massive wad of cash sitting in the machine – it must have been £250 or £300! Thankfully, the guy hadn’t gone far, so I was able to call him back. He said the machine had been slow, and he thought it hadn’t got any money to give him!

I never use self-service in the shops, but I know someone who left his card in the machine for about three days on the trot! They were getting to know him at the customer service desk! I think they told him that they get loads of cards left behind every day, so this sort of thing is easily done. It’s just a pity that the woman behind you wasn’t honest.

Slight hijack but these self serve machines can be a real profit maker.

In Sainsburys, say for example you get one of the lunch meal deals for £3, the till automatically puts the items thorough at full price before discount.

Think it came to £4.25 the other day for me. You then have press the ” go back ” button which then takes the discount off. This is not clear on the screen so it’s easy not to notice.

Fair enough, if you are only going in for a meal deal you know it’s £3 but if you get other items, it’s easy not to notice.

I’m failing to see the “crime” in the op.

I completely get where you are coming from Seosamh77. However, if you replace the word ‘crime’ for ‘dishonesty’ then (hopefully) you can see the issue. You see, ‘finders keepers’ doesn’t have much legal precedent when it comes to easily returnable cash. I’d just like the £50 back. I’d rather just knock on the woman’s door myself and ask her, but all these pesky data protection laws mean I have to ask the police to uphold the law for me.

You won’t get a production order from a bank for theft by finding of £50. You’re more likely to get their details from a loyalty card or the car reg outside. Peoples expectations about use of public resources seems slightly out of whack with reality.

In Sainsburys, say for example you get one of the lunch meal deals for £3, the till automatically puts the items thorough at full price before discount.
Think it came to £4.25 the other day for me. You then have press the ” go back ” button which then takes the discount off. This is not clear on the screen so it’s easy not to notice.

no, no need to press go back. Correct discount is applied automatically when paying at Sainbury. Just that it doesn’t show up as applied until you select how you will pay

so far you have cost us the the tax payer more than £50 in resourses for your mistake !

Suck it up and stop moaning and the let the police concentrate on something useful….

End of thread !

so far you have cost us the the tax payer more than £50 in resourses (sic) for your mistake !

You know what, I’d forgo the £50 or donate it to the costs of the investigation, it’s actually more about the dishonesty TBH. I just don’t think that behaviour is, y’know, okay. I’d happily pop round and sort it out myself, but that sort of thing is frowned upon. I don’t actually think it’s cost the taxpayer very much at all so far; the cost of a few phone calls by a civilian investigator maybe. Maybe we should not investigate any crimes that the victim brings upon themselves; or only involve a ‘petty’ amount of loss, eh? Dishonesty is fine, so long as your victim is a forgetful eejit rather than a wronged celebrity, or something.

to be fair the cost is more than you think id be guessing near to a thousand so far – police looking at CCTV/ cars they got to the supermarket in/person you spoke to on the phone/police investigator/ admin staff/ office space etc and I’ve probably missed lots of other beuracratic stuff off the list…

and no its not okay to be dishonest even though there are many big organisations that are – Starbucks etc and we fuel them by drinking their products.