Hi, i have some XT brakes, bought in 2018.  (m8020)

Initially loved them , but the wandering bite point is here to stay it seems despite several bleeds etc. Has anyone  in a similar situation warrantied them? Are the new ones  (M8120) better?

Ta!

I think the warranty on XT components is 1 year (2 years on XTR) so unless you bought them late last year you may be out of luck. I sent back my XTR M9020 brakes back to ChainReaction for the same issue, replacements haven’t been any better. I have no experience with the latest M8120 or M9120 versions though.

Warranty is 2 years except XTR and Dura-Ace which gets 3 years.

Ah Cool!

Have you tried doing a bottom-up bleed?

And checked you rotor’s not worn? That can give same feel IME.

Perhaps try with a new one if not sure. And check your pads as well obvs.

I did get a Zee warrantied at a similar age for this issue though, FWIW.

This is what totally put me off Shimano brakes. It’s happened on every single one of the 5 sets I’ve had over the years and nothing has cured it. Zip tieing the levers to the bars over night makes them feel ace for the first descent but it soon comes back. I sent my last set of XTs back to crc for a refund. But that’s CRC, generally no quibbles with warranty because they can absorb it. Not sure what Maddison would do with a set returned via your LBS.

I did see this video shortly after I swore off them for the last time. Totally different way of bleeding them from the syndicate mechanic. Got to be worth a try.

How to Bleed a Shimano Saint Brake with The Syndicate’s Marshy.

I now have 3 sets of XT8000s. Only one ever had this problem and it was cured by a good bleed, never to return. I just followed the Shimano instructions.

I’ll happily pay the postage if somebody wants to send me a “broken” one they’re not using anymore.

cheers. I do the ‘Marshy’ bleed . I have some saints and they dont have this issue.

It’s not *that* problematic actually , most annoying for manuals as you don’t quite trust the rear to know how much throw there is in the lever to stop you going off the back.  It is consistently inconsistent, one longer pull, then they are good again. Don’t brake for a few seconds and then it is back to one longer pull, then they are good again.

Geex will be along in a minute to tell me i am doing manuals wrong

I think the problem is fluid level in the reservoir. The reservoir is very small and if the pads wear you get air in the system. If you top up the reservoir regularly you don’t get the wandering. Easy to do with the yellow bucket. Once the air is in, only a bottom up full bleed will do….

Yep, pushing everything up from the bottom with a syringe made my Zees feel like new again.

Just done both my XTR and XT brakes from the bottom, as above you need to keep an eye on the reservoir level as that is where problem starts.

Bleed them properly from the calliper with the bleed nipple at the lowest point and with the proper non-return insert in the lever end funnel and they’ll be perfect.

I now have 3 sets of XT8000s. Only one ever had this problem and it was cured by a good bleed, never to return. I just followed the Shimano instructions.

100% this on both pairs of mine.

@steve_b77

proper non-return insert in the lever end funnel and they’ll be perfect

could you explain a little more, i don’t quite understand. Non-return insert ?

https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/technologies/component/details/one-way-bleeding.html

The only time mine wander has been due to air in the system & a marshy bleed and/or a lever bubble bleed resolves.
The air bubbles in the pipes gets hot & expands I believe which changes the bite point.

Had this develop on some M8000’s. bled bottom up, took air out of the lever. Still weird.

tried the pads in, lever at multiple angles trick, overfill quick fix, as per epic bleeds guide. did something, but didn’t cure it.

final caliper off, bleed block in, push from bottom up with about 3 times the volume I thought I’d need.
seems to have sorted it, though I’m still not 100% convinced. will find out on sunday..

if that doesn’t work, I’ll try the Marshy method.

Bleed them properly from the calliper with the bleed nipple at the lowest point and with the proper non-return insert in the lever end funnel and they’ll be perfect.

The worst thing about getting a dud XT brake caliper is not that you have a duff brake, it’s all the people on the internet telling you that you are using it wrong.

Some people just can’t accept that there’s a problem with some Shimano brakes. I’ve personally had 2 duff sets (Saint and SLX) that were impossible to set up correctly. There was nothing I didn’t try. I’ve been working on my own bikes for nearly 20 years, bled and fettled hundreds of brakes in my time. I just gave up on them. They would be absolute perfection in the workshop but the lever would pull to the bar on the first squeeze on the trail.

I’ve had V4’s and E4’s since with no issues.

For balance, my girlfriend had some Deore brakes which were mint. Very impressive for the price.

I have warranties a few sets for leaking pistons over the years to CRC, even when I wasn’t sure it was that problem. I just keep a spare caliper in stock nowadays as some last 4 years some 1 year but they inevitably all go eventually. Actually need to fix one this weekend that was perfect after a bleed a month ago…

https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/technologies/component/details/one-way-bleeding.html

So this looks like Shimano have finally admitted there was a problem and have done something to sort it and I only have to buy new calipers! Balls 😂

The cheaper 4 pots (Deore) don’t seem to have any problems, which was why I went for some over Saints/XT/Zees. You could buy a pair of the calipers for about £50 from Germany and use your XT levers.

JP

Survivor – one way bleeding has been around for about 9 yrs now (3 generations of XTR/XT/SLX have had it).

The varying bite point issue was with early M9000/20 and M8000 levers. Fixed in later production runs, but now due to that known problem – all vaguely similar problems – almost always due to poor bleeds – are blamed on an issue that is irrelevant but an easy target.

Certainly fixed long before M8020 4 pots were released.

I found gravity bleeds the most helpful on mine. Whether Marshy style or Shimano style didn’t really make any odds.

https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/dm/DM-BR0005-13-ENG.pdf