What’s the difference between these two, bigger pistons on the saints? I presume they both play with normal xt m8000 levers. Cheers

they look pretty much identical to me – aren’t they both 15/17mm pistons ?

XT has smaller pistons, and I believe one piston slightly smaller than the other, there’s a reason why -lower power for the initial bite to stop smaller tyres on Enduro bikes locking up too easily, or perhaps I dreamt that, anyway different, but probably not that noticeable to mere mortals.

Sorry STW did print they were different but retracted it.

Update: The original information we received about the difference in piston diameter between the Saint/Zee brake callipers and the new XT 4-pot callipers was incorrect. We can now confirm that the piston diameter is the same between all Shimano 4-pot brake callipers.

So being cynical you could say that the M8020 brakes are what people have been doing for years, mating XT levers with Saint or Zee Calipers, but at least they’re branded XT.

If, like me, you already have M8000 brakes and fancy 4 pots, I’d buy Saint or XT calipers depending on what what cheaper, or even Zee, because I think they’re the same only they don’t come with Finned pads. There’s also some sub-Deore 4 pots that are designed for e-bikes, they’re not as nicely machined, but they’re internally the same (some debate over whether the pistons are ceramic or not) will take finned pads and are cheap as chips.

Thanks p jay. Love my saints, but my new bike has xt 2 pots so think I might end up swapping calipers.

Just fitted some new xt 4 pots on Mrs Stu’ bike and they’re not as powerful as the saints on all our other bikes.

Just fitted some xt 4 pots on my bike and they are as powerful as the saints on my other bike

Got a mixture of Saints on some bikes and a couple that have XT/XTR with Saint calipers and I can’t tell any difference in power and performance. Swapping the calipers is the cheap option but you will need new banjo bolts.

how long ’til a new saint groupset appears?  This one seems to have been around for ages

they are saint calipers with XT levers.  The XT levers don’t move as much fluid as the saint ones for a given lever pull.

Thanks guys so the answer is they are the same calipers but with a different amount of oil being pushed against the pistons.

they are saint calipers with XT levers.  The XT levers don’t move as much fluid as the saint ones for a given lever pull

is that a good thing or not 🤔

how long ’til a new saint groupset appears?  This one seems to have been around for ages

You might be forgiven for questioning the basic need for saint as a group anymore given the general crossover in parts and usage with XT… Everyone’s an enduro gnar-ranger these days, XT seems to be the group of choice for many (if buying shimano).

The same might be said of Zee (vs SLX)…

Yeah OK if DH is your bag, but again are DHers holding on to 10speed? Or instead opting for chopped down 11speed (with say 7 sprockets)?

they are saint calipers with XT levers.  The XT levers don’t move as much fluid as the saint ones for a given lever pull

Dunno if that’s true or not, but if it is then XT would have more power as smaller master cylinder = more pressure (but less flow)

You might be forgiven for questioning the basic need for saint as a group anymore given the general crossover in parts and usage with XT… Everyone’s an enduro gnar-ranger these days, XT seems to be the group of choice for many (if buying shimano).

Saint cranks are obviously tougher

Saint mechs likewise (and I think it’s the only mtb mech you could get in road cage lengths?).

Saint shifter had a different clamp and paddles so it could be run outboard of the lever, not sure if that’s still the case since they went i-spec.

It does seem a little dated compared to SRAM’s offering though, but it’s probably a very small market for shimano, maybe they’ll release something with a variation on their new road freehub?