My lightweight XC race bike has Level TLM brakes. I wouldn’t say they’re rubbish, just that they’re rubbish compared to the 4-pot SLX brakes on my slack, messing-about bike. Never had 4-pots before. Holy moly! So that’s what brakes should be like!

Now I want the same feeling on the race bike, but nice and light. Getting hold of Shimano 4-pot brakes right now seems difficult. Was thinking XT more than XTR.

Looking at Hope or Magura, but it’s been a very long time since I had Hope brakes and I’m not sure what’s what.

Any recommendations for lightweight XC 4-pots, possibly a bit below Trickstuff in the cost stakes?

Did not brake the forum.

I would try sintered pads and a larger rotor first. That can make a surprising difference.

I have Zees on my short-travel FS bike, but it is fairly slack and not a race bike.

Those Levels are a step down from the Guides, aren’t they? Guides are barely adequate for XC in my experience, and Shimano 2-pot brakes are noticeably better than them.

So, I’d say get some Shimano 2-pots with 180mm rotors. They’re pretty punchy, I used to use resin rather than sintered pads to tone them down a touch.

Currently got sintered pads and a 180 front rotor. The difference in feel between the 2 and 4 pots is remarkable, and I don’t think it’s just a Sram/Shimano difference.

Well I’ve not used Levels, so it’s conjecture to an extent, but I’ve only ever seen them described as weedy and inadequate.

You must have a mate with some 2-pot Shimanos? Have a go on their bike. You might be surprised.

There’s more difference in modulation between 2 and 4 pot Shimanos than in outright power, IMO.

Formula Cura, even the two pot are meant to be as good as most 4 pot brakes. I know my RO’s are as good as a lot of 4 pot brakes

You must have a mate with some 2-pot Shimanos? Have a go on their bike. You might be surprised.

I’ve got 2 pot XTs on another bike, I know what I want here! Just after some wisdom around other contenders.

fwiw, my 2 pot 8000 xt’s w/resin feel better and stop better than my 4-pot 9120 xtr’s w/metal

that said, I’m looking for some 4 pot calipers to swap onto the boxed 8100 xt’s I have ready for my next build because I still want 4 pots on the 170mm bike…

I’ve got 2 pot XTs on another bike, I know what I want here!

No, I know what you want!

Haha, sorry if I was being pushy. You do indeed know if you already have a set of XTs.

4 pots and XC don’t necessarily compute for most manufacturers. All the XC brakes I’m aware of are 2 pot.

If you want 4 pots then:

Sram Guides / G2 – I’ve used guide R’s and with uberbike race matrix I thought they were quite decent. Less grabby than Shimano and less prone to seals randomly dying / variable bite point.

Formula Cura 4 pots – getting a lot of good comments on forums but I haven’t used them

Magura MT5’s or the trail version which has 4 pot front / 2 pot rear

Shimano – guess the higher versions are the lightest

Hope E4

In terms of weight I’d imagine G2 rsc / Shimano XTR are probably the lightest of all of those.

It’s not the number of pots that’s making the difference, it’s just that one is a brake you like and one isn’t. Number of pots is mostly a marketing thing- there can be some advantages over a single pot of the same area but mostly not. And there’s disadvantages too- twice as many seals to gunk up and cause unequal pressure and movement and whatnot.

That’s probably not totally helpful since it turns “what XC 4 pots” into “what brakes” but really it’s the correct answer- figure out what it is about the SLXs that you like and then find something that does the same in a more XC brake.

MT-5s are allegedly 255g minus the rotor compared to 410g for an XT 4 pot. Must be something to do with their plastic, I mean Carbotech(!) construction

Mind you, being Maguras they’ll never bleed properly and thus will give you similar stopping power to a set of Tektro V brakes running Kool Stop pads in the wet on chrome rims.

If you absolutely positively want 4 pots I’d go for the XTs (if you can get them), but as others have said I’m not really convinced on the need unless you’re a fat lad hitting long decents, a lot, on a heavy bike. Sintered pads and big rotors will have a more dramatic effect than the number of pistons.

4 pots do look cool though.

Amateurs.
8 pots?

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/sram-new-brake-testing-2-calipers.html

My downcountry bike bought last year came with Guide RS 4 pots. New to Guides having been riding 2 pot 8000 XT previously. Both bikes with 180 rotors upfront. Guides seemed a smidge less powerful initially, but I think that actually they’re less grabby with more modulation rather than less powerful. I’ve grown to like them a lot. Bit more faff bleeding and cleaning pistons, but not a deal breaker.

As already recommended above, the two pot Formula Cura has bags of power, enough that they have been used on World Cup DH bikes. They do a carbon-lightened version now also, if your budget allows, but the normal ones are fantastic value

I use Formula Cura 2 pots on my big full suspension bike and they’re great – I’ve been wary of brands like Formula because Magura and Hope aren’t any good but they’re really the business. Very powerful, more powerful than the 4 pot Sram Guides on my race bike. I’d recommend them over almost anything for the same weight.

I don’t quite get it, unless you’re a right biffer, given that it’s a lightweight XC race bike, I presume you’ll be running lightweight XC race tyres, no?

So if you slap a set of 4 pots on there you’re just gonna overwhelm the grip of the tyres and lock-up & skid all over the shop, not utilising the mahoosive brakes to their ability, thus ultimately wasting them.

I reckon it’s just the brakes you currently have are pap, I personally wouldn’t bother with sintered pads on that type of bike as you’re never gonna get them hot enough to warrant the compound, something like Uberbikes Race Matrix is ideal, saying that the stock pads that Shimano 2 pot XC brakes come with are immense.

I had XT M8000 (2 pots with 160mm rotors) on my last XC race bike and they never struggled to stop me once, even belting down the Fort William Red XC WC descent time after time for 12 hours or more. I’ve got XTR M9100 (2 pots with 160mm Freeza-tech rotors) on my new XC race bike, now these aren’t even servo wave like the previous XT, but are just as powerful.

Timely thread – the Deore level brakes on my new (to me) Top Fuel are a little underwhelming. Probably not helped by the Shimano “Resin Pads Only” level discs which don’t seem to have a great reputation.

I’m tempted by the new Hope XC / Downcountry brakes, but they’re a sizable investment (and black brakes would look better, IMHO)…

@toby change rotors and change pads to a different compound like the Race Matrix, the Deore 2 pots are essentially exactly the same functionally as their more expensive (lighter and more twiddly bits, unless you get XTR and they need allen keys for everything) counterparts.

The rotors are fine to be honest, just change pads and change the rotors when you wear them out

@steve_b77 Cheers, they guy I bought it off did mention some aftermarket pads he’d fitted (EBC?), but yes, fresh pads are an obvious (and cheap) starting point. I wasn’t sure how much difference the discs themselves would make.

Part of me was hesitant to throw good money after bad. Part of me wanted to justify new shiny things 😉

Discs, virtually naff all IMHO, they just wear out quicker due to being a bit softer. If you can get them go for Uberbike RaceMatrix

Aside from pad changes, maybe a bleed too….if you really want a load more stopping ooomph, then have a look at the magura trail sport. You get a full fat big 4 pot front and a regular 2 pot rear. Not that heavy and they definitely a step up from a 2 pot front and rear set up. They also come with the stubby 1 finger levers, so you won’t need to do any upgrades from stock with the levers.

Cheers all.

Race Matrix Pads incoming – I was really impressed with how well they worked on the gravel bike, so hopefully pads will do the trick.

I’ll leave the rotors for now, then. I don’t think they need bleeding, there’s no sponginess to them that I can detect, just don’t seem to have much friction. Hard to explain, but they’ve neither got the bite of the Zees or the progressiveness of the Hopes that were on the two bikes I’ve replaced with this one.

Oh, and I’ll put those Maguras on the shortlist if I do still want to upgrade. Thanks.