Maybe exposing them to it and explaining what they’re seeing is a more beneficial approach over shielding them from it?

I think this is a good approach, only because I can’t decide wether to condemn it or not, if the kids condemn it then thats up to them. I’ll probably end up conforming to their views.

Cougar – I’m not sure even the most experienced parents are qualified. So you may well ahve plenty of valid insight.

One family not watching something feels like a tiny, useless, and insignificant

See also one family driving less or buying less plastic or all manner of small things.

Greipel. Not sure that needs a caption.

I have attempted, as a man, to explain these things to an actual woman. I hear they love that sort of thing.

So watching the end of a TDF stage a few years ago my wife happened to look up during the presentation and was moved to ask “what’s with the women then?” I calmly replied “I dunno, I think it’s a bit of a hangover given it was founded as a promotional event. It’s a bit embarrassing.”

Accumulation of the above is probably why they ended it

Should I also watch and explain Enoch Powell speeches with them in order to expose them to racist views?

Should you pretend racism doesn’t exist?

🤷‍♂️ I don’t know. I don’t have the answers, I have no clue what I’d do for the best in such circumstances. This is one of the lesser reasons why I chose not to reproduce, I don’t want the responsibility and I don’t envy those who have.

Given sufficient degree of cognitive maturity though I can’t immediately see how “talking about stuff” is a bad thing.

Should I also watch and explain Enoch Powell speeches with them in order to expose them to racist views?

Maybe, its history isn’t it, no harm in learning from it.

I don’t think that censoring what your kids watch is a particularly contentious subject. It’s something that almost all parents do for a variety of reasons.

In this case, I doubt my 6 and 9 year old kids would pay much attention to the Monster Energy girls. They would just be something there in the background subtly reinforcing the idea that boys ride bikes while girls stand around wearing skimpy outfits.

I would have to actually pause the program, point out the women, and then I would definitely start to feel like some kind of pervy weirdo.

‘Notice the size of the breasts in relation to the size the waist. You don’t see many women in the supermarket with proportions like that, do you? Now, let’s just zoom in on the buttocks for a minute and I think you’ll find…’

I would also have to explain what objectifying women meant. I would then have to explain about how viewing people as being not entirely human leads to abuse, violence, and assault.

Then we could have lots of fun conversations where I detail all the different ways abuse can manifest itself. Maybe I could just read this article to them and discuss it:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/jul/27/i-was-not-being-loved-i-was-just-a-body-mena-suvari-on-surviving-sexual-abuse-acting-and-american-beauty

Don’t get me wrong, I definitely could explain all this to my kids but the X-Games doesn’t feel like the best ‘teachable’ moment. I’d rather just censor their viewing in this particular case and avoid the subconscious reinforcement of the gender stereotypes.

And avoid giving X-games the viewing figures, of course.

Should I also watch and explain Enoch Powell speeches with them in order to expose them to racist views?

This is the slippery slope logical fallacy, should you watch ISIS beheading videos and explain that?
You have to exercise your own judgement. I don’t think PIT girls presented in context, for discussion, will lead to PTSD or anything else, whereas ISIS videos will.
The discussion may well lead to something good, like your kids writiing to X Games telling them what they think.
As I said, they don’t bother me, but I can see why they represent the patriarchy, thats why I like the idea of men in speedos (oooeer) as I think they exposure may well lead to something better.

Just to clarify, the Enoch Powell point was more about coming up with a ‘teachable moment’ excuse to watch something I want to see anyway and contrasting that with something I don’t want to see (ie old Enoch Powell speeches).

I’m not against discussing things with my kids. I just have to make sure it is actually going to be to their benefit and not just me finding justifications.

well I had to look up rule 34. kinda funny.

That argument up there about reinforcing the idea that girls see other girls standing around in skimpy kit and think that’s the job for us rather then ride bikes or play the sport. It’s a annoying argument. Like every girl and woman I know we can actually see it for what it is y’know? we’re not so blinded by the stereotype that we can’t see past it to the actual sport, and it is a wee bit patronising to say that about women.

Like every girl and woman I know we can actually see it for what it is y’know? we’re not so blinded by the stereotype that we can’t see past it to the actual sport, and it is a wee bit patronising to say that about women.

That’s good.

How do we get that message across to the boys and men?

I was just looking around for some links and stuff about when/how/why podium girls started getting negative attention in the Tour, and bumped into an article from 7 years ago, with much the same arguments about TdF podium girls, and started reading through the comments, for a moment I could have been convinced it was just this thread repackaged, I honestly find it hard to fathom how we are still having discussions about whether or not it should be done away with. 🙁

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/100-tours-100-tales/2015/jun/16/cycling-needs-to-lose-its-podium-girls

And to top it all, a woman comes along and says, ‘you guys are going to do what you want anyway so it won’t make any difference’ and you treat that like a supportive statement.

Umm no

The bit I took as a supportive statement to my view is that it had no impact on her taking up the sport.

The concept of promo girls, or behavior of blokes in general both leave much to be desired, I’m not arguing that point

So I don’t think sports = sexy times. does anyone?

If you’re asking, then yes, women’s tennis is hot as balls, and also, I’ve subsequently found: bloody awesome.

HAve you even seen some of the wrestlers !!!!!

HAve you even seen some of the wrestlers !!!!!

Yes! Forgot about that. Awesome Sunday morning treat. Is it a sport though?

But sshh! Keep it a secret. The puritans are probably out self-flagellating when it’s on.

The bit I took as a supportive statement to my view is that it had no impact on her taking up the sport.

Fair enough, but do you not think that by only taking account of what the women of this forum say you’re introducing some massive Survivorship Bias into your conclusion?

We’re on a mountain bike forum that, let’s face it, is massively skewed towards male participation. Isn’t it logical to assume that any women who mountain bike and weren’t put off by misogynistic marketing are going to not have seen misogynistic advertising as being a barrier to participation?.

Emsz’ experience is totally valid but she comes from a very small subset of the population (ie, women who post on this forum) and it’s not surprising her view might not reflect the majority.

My own view partly comes from numerous discussions with my missus who didn’t take part in any sport until she was well into her 20s. Not because she didn’t want to, but because her parents didn’t support her in it.

In contrast, her brother did almost every sport imaginable growing up. The equipment was bought for him, he was driven to practices, and he was generally encouraged to try every sport he wanted.

You can say you’re only interested in the women of this forum’s views if you want but I think if you disregard the views of those of us who live with people who were denied access to sport growing up because of their gender then yes, you’re much more likely to find views that support your own.

And let’s not forget, we’re talking about an event that has been boycotted by women BMXers since 2019.

No Women’s BMX at X Games | Athletes demand competition, not demos

Like I said, it’s men’s views of women’s participation in sport that I think are the problem and I believe that the people who employ the Monster Energy girls are perpetuating that view amongst boys who will grow up to be men (at least in terms of age). Female competitors boycotting the competition and scantily clad promo girls is not a good combination, imo.

The puritans are probably out self-flagellating when it’s on.

You really are quite an irritating little gammon, aren’t you?

we’re not so blinded by the stereotype that we can’t see past it to the actual sport, and it is a wee bit patronising to say that about women.

Not been saying it about women, been saying it about people.

Someone better inform the ladies that male strippers are no longer acceptable.

I don’t think they’ll be happy.

IS that actually possible ?

Everyone doesn’t include both the men/women who want this type of situation does it ?

you are correct and i also think you are just trying to wind up folk, but i’d call that splitting hairs and it’s an argument you could make about a log of things. bullying, for example. presumably a bully wants to intimidate people if you stopped bullying the bullies would be loosing out.

Do you really think it would be better if there were pit boys as well as pit girls? I can’t help thinking it would actually be even more worse, by that I mean the men could potentially lower the tone even further.

Once as a society we’re past leering at semi clad women and going fwoooaaaar wolf whistle I’d give her one type behaviours, will it be okay for them to return?

Do you really think it would be better if there were pit boys as well as pit girls?

In an ideal world, absolutely.

In practice I suspect it’d drive away more existing viewers due to latent homophobia than it would attract new ones.

Well thanks guys.
After reading this thread I tried to watch Species last night and found the nudity laughably unnecessary after the first transformation scene. Caught up with the end of Umbrella Academy S2 instead.
I used to like that film in a low budget alien kind of way.

Like every girl and woman I know we can actually see it for what it is y’know? we’re not so blinded by the stereotype that we can’t see past it to the actual sport, and it is a wee bit patronising to say that about women.

It is not about seeing past it, it is about the biases if helps to form along with all the others as people grow up ending in the overall situation we have now. It is also not progressive as a whole.

No women in a certain sport, certain job, having certain privilege etc,. no problem they can no doubt see past whatever the issue is and just do it anyway.

you are correct and i also think you are just trying to wind up folk

Sometimes and indeed sometimes in threads like this… But, also, if i’m completely honest, i don’t see this whole discussion as an issue/problem in the same way many do. Maybe that makes me a throwback to an earlier age, or maybe i just don’t actually care… i’m not really sure on the answer. But i don’t see the issue.
However, of course, i’m not looking at it from a female perspective.. but that’s becasue i’m not one and i can’t relate to being one any more than i could being a salmon or a snake… I’m just me.

AS i see it, the girls don’t seem unhappy, they get paid, get their moment in the spotlight and the sport potentially gets an increase in viewers.. i see that as a win win.

Does that detract from women on the whole, heck i don’t know… far cleverer people than me need to answer that one..

I suspect i’m in the minority here, or at least the minority who’ll answer in this way lol. But i’m not likely to change massively, i’m just who i am…. good or bad, right or wrong…

I look at things on TV like the Kardashians… are they exploited ? are they really ? or are they using what they have to make their millions (or more) and is a show like that doing more or less harm than the Monster girls ?

I know damn well what MrsTj would have said about this having discussed the sort of topic many times.

I won’t get much of an answer if i ask her now tho given she is rather dehydrated 🙄😀

But her answer would have been along the lines of ” ghastly misogynistic nonsense that should have been left in the 70s. Shows a lack of imagination. But there are much bigger issues. Pick and choose your battles”

I do find it rather sad that people are defending this on here and using such ridiculous contorted arguement to do so. I’d be interested to know how many of the defenders are single. I bet there is a strong correlation

Just getting back to the actual op, if you and your daughter are interested then the UCI BMX world champs are on at the moment over in Nantes, France. I’d say let’s watch this.
It’s live stream on YouTube at the moment, age group racing boys and girls during the week with the big elite finals at the weekend.
Daughter and son both race and it’s a really inclusive sport with some real inspirational athletes for them to look up to, from clubmates they train with and coached by all the way up to Olympic champions.

Does that detract from women on the whole, heck i don’t know…

Yet here you still are

Yet here you still are

Sorry, i thought this was a discussion forum.

I didn’t know you had to be right to post…

Are you new here?

LMAO at the white knights out defending those defenseless women and making sure the only woman who posted is kept in her place.

*slow clap*

Have you tried reading the discussion? Might help.

LMAO at the white knights out defending those defenseless women and making sure the only woman who posted is kept in her place.

*slow clap*

LMAO at the white knight out defending a defenseless woman who made a point that some happen to disagree with because she obviously can’t make the argument without a strong man leaping to her defense.

*slow clap*

emsz experience is totally valid and added another perspective to the conversation. However, her views don’t invalidate the experiences of women who didn’t find their way into mountain biking. Especially when you consider part of the reason so few women find their way into mountain biking is due to prejudices about what is considered proper activities for young girls.

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/letter-to-my-dad-leticia-bufoni-skateboarding-olympics

You’re contribution, on the other hand, added nothing.

LMAO at the white knights out defending those defenseless women and making sure the only woman who posted is kept in her place.

I do love phrases like white knights, immediately alerts you that the person using that phrase is probably a complete & utter asshat

LMAO at the white knights out defending those defenseless women and making sure the only woman who posted is kept in her place.

I know right!

Turbo-Wringers – “OMG, what we need is a female to give us their opinion!”

Emsz – “Hi!”

Turbo-Wringers – “No, not you.”

🤣

I think they were banking on a kind of female Tj wading in rather than a cool cucumber like Emsz.

The left is eating itself. The fascisim here is palpable, anyone who isn’t woke enough gets insulted or talked down to. TJ, cougar bruce wee, if you want to change minds you need to change tack. Try persuasion and open minded consideration instead of just resorting to bad attitudes. It is quite ugly.
My kids are way better at this than you, but for me right now agreeing with you makes me feel as sick as agreeing with Farage over something. And he looks like someone took a dump in a used condom and cut a split in it for a mouthhole.

emsz experience is totally valid and added another perspective to the conversation.

If any of you had actually said that in the first place do you think I’d have said what I did? You didn’t, you just immediately dismissed her, nothing from any of you except a load of “well yes but…[insert mans opinion here]. Then you wonder why female participation in this sport and on this site is so low. The cognitive dissonance is high.

Have you tried reading the discussion? Might help.

I have, yes. And it’s not a pleasant read to be quite honest.

I do love phrases like white knights, immediately alerts you that the person using that phrase is probably a complete & utter asshat

You sound rather hurt, did that cut a bit close to the bone?

Anyway, Emsz is a big girl, I wasn’t assuming to speak for her, just pointing out the sheer amount of irony an hypocrisy being flung about. If you want to do right for women START LISTENING TO THEM. Assuming to speak for them is just more of what you claim to hate.

I thought the whole thing about being a good ally was a willingness to call other men out and accept challenge yourself? Or does that only count when it goes with your opinion?

I have, yes.

Then you will have read many posts saying many different things from what you’re claiming.

I think they were banking on a kind of female Tj wading in rather than a cool cucumber like Emsz.

Yeah, you’re such an ally of women, aren’t you?

Oh no, you’re not. You escaped from the Daily Mail comments section and now you’ve appointed yourself the official STW Anti-Woke Warrior.

You’re a gammon and your constant whinging about this place being too PC and too woke and too many people getting called out for being racist/misogynistic/homophobic/transphobic is getting old. Change the record or go post on pistonheads.

If any of you had actually said that in the first place do you think I’d have said what I did?

Aye, try reading before commenting next time.

If you want to do right for women START LISTENING TO THEM

Well, I listened to the entire field of female BMXers who are currently boycotting the X-games. Did you?

Sure, the Monster Energy girls aren’t the worst thing going on here. However, when you have an organasiation that is alienating women to the extent that they refused their invitations to take part in the event AND they think skimpy clothing is an acceptable way to promote products then the evidence that they, as an organisation, are actually pretty **** rotten starts to become overwhelming.

The fascisim here is palpable

**** me! The things people spout on here.