Emma82 very well said.
If your kid came home with nicked stuff and you didn’t talk to him and persaude them to hand themselves in then yes I would shop them. How will they learn/know what is right and wrong if you let them get away with it? maybe they will descend into more crime and become the dregs and scum of society. God help your children Yossarian.. and this society.

If taking part in the riots and looting was another addition to a growing list of misbehaviour, and I thought that the legal system was the best way to put him on the straight and narrow then yes.

If it was an out of character act, then no. A criminal record goes way beyond what most people expect in limiting employment possibilities, it could actually increase the probability of criminality in the future. Not to say that there wouldn’t be consequences, just not through the legal system.

I am not so naive as to believe the justice system is fair or just, or even works in a manner which most believe it does.

I don’t think I could say in advance to be honest. Has anyone been in that situation? I think it would depend on what they had done and what their behavior was generally like.

Yeah but all that happens is you lose your home, you declare yourself homeless and the council are legally obliged to find you a home again

If it is succesful you wil be deemed to have mad eyoursefl volunbtarily homeless and they do not need to assist you in any way shape or for. So criminial, incomeless and homeless …if that doe snot make thme productiove law abiding members of society then I will be very surprised

dont recall actually saying that – are you quoting me directly or making it up?

Goes to search thread. I thought it was you but I may be incorrect

You ought to know by now that I’m not at all interested in being in the majority opinion.

Ah well. If you can’t stand out in real life then I suspect this sort of post is the way to achieve fame.

I don’t think I could say in advance to be honest. Has anyone been in that situation? I think it would depend on what they had done and what their behavior was generally like.

This.

I think the days of getting a police man friend round to scare them are gone.

How will they learn/know what is right and wrong if you let them get away with it?

there are better ways of teaching your children whats right than taking them to the police station

maybe they will descend into more crime and become the dregs and scum of society.

maybe they won’t if I do my job properly. Maybe they will anyway. Maybe they will if they get a prison sentence and become disengaged from their parents as a result.

God help your children Yossarian.. and this society.

My kids will grow up just fine, without fear and with a moral code that places family at its heart. I’ll email you in 20 years and give you an update.

and before you say ‘but looting is not as serious as any of the above’, do you think the families of the three that were murdered during the looting activity/the woman who had to jump from the floor of a burning building/the family of the man attacked who died yesterday think ‘oh well it’s just because of the looting, can’t be helped?’. People have lost their lives, their livlihood, will lose their homes etc because of this.

Looting is not as serious as any of the above!

They were seperate crimes. The elderly man who died was assaulted. The 3 boys who were driven into and killed, died as a result of the drivers actions.
I dont know if I would turn my son in, as per others I would decide if I think the law is just and appropriate before making a decision.

You sound like a grass to me. Sorry, but you do.

If I lived in the same street or block as you I’d have you marked as ‘unreliable as an aquaintance. not community minded and likely to create problems rather than solving them’.

I’d be right too, wouldn’t I?

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/another-moral-dilemma/page/2#post-2814298

there was more as well iirc but work calls

If I thought my looter son or daughter was going to be treated to the medieval style hammer of justice being handed out at the moment, then no, I wouldn’t.

so you were incorrectly paraphrasing me then weren’t you Junkyard? 😉

never mind.

Trouble is if you won’t shop your own kids then you can hardly expect other kids involved to be dealt with by the police and punished in the courts as that would be hypocrital right? So those who won’t shop your own kids what should happen to those kids that are caught by the police?

Surfer all of those deaths occurred because they were linked into the looting. What’s so medieval about what is happening in the courts?

If it was one of mine they’d be straight down the nick.

If you don’t report them to the police but you know what they did, you are just as responsible. End of.

Emma – saying that you are just as responsible doesn’t mean you you should shop them. If it was my kids and it was looting, then as I said before no I wouldn’t shop them, but I would also accept responsibility if “we” got found out. I couldn’t do it because of this:

deadlydarcy – Member
If I thought my looter son or daughter was going to be treated to the medieval style hammer of justice being handed out at the moment, then no, I wouldn’t.

And because having children changes your moral outlook – esp in term of right and wrong and black and white.

I wonder if those saying they would shop their kids actually have kids?

TBH if I knew someone who shopped their kid for looting I would consider them to be morally suspect.

I loved the way nick Hancock reported on how to tell if your child was involved yesterday: “are you presetly watching this on a 52″ plasma screen that wasn’t there yesterday. And you have no recollection of buying?” 🙂

My old man was a police officer and the understanding was that if I did something that was serious enough to be more than a telling off from one of his colleagues and would require me to see the inside of the station for a bit and he knew about it, he’d take me to the police station himself. For him it was a double moral thing; firstly personal morals about lawbreaking and secondly that he’d struggle to explain to anyone else why he was arresting their kids if he failed to apply an even hand.

Although he was a police officer so there was an added dimension, I don’t think it’s a bad way to be. If they’re old enough to know better, they’re old enough to take the consequences.

So back to the OP, if I knew my kid had been looting or smashing up a police car (as with the girl in the papers last week), I’d certainly be making sure they owned up to it.

so you were incorrectly paraphrasing me then weren’t you Junkyard?

yes you seen through me with your great vision and insight only matched by your moral code and sense of superiority…would you possibly either forgive me or stop grassing

TBH if I knew someone who shopped their kid for looting I would consider them to be morally suspect.

Honestly, if I knew your kid had come home after burning/looting a neighbourhood business and that you knew too and did nothing, I would consider you to be morally suspect too. The looters did untold damage to their own communities and there are plenty of parents who think that it’s just one of those things; that’s the morally problematic thing.

IF the crime was very serious and IF all my attempts to put them back on track had failed and IF I thought that being punished by law would be worth giving them a criminal record, then I might consider it.

Some of you lot sound as if you’d have your kid banged up for nicking some pick ‘n’ mix.

Surfer all of those deaths occurred because they were linked into the looting. What’s so medieval about what is happening in the courts?

The first of the two will be prosecuted for murder/manslaughter. The man didnt die as a result of the offender looting. Looting didnt kill him the physical assault did.
I didnt mention the term “medieval” I think DD did and he’s big enough and ugly enough to answer for himself.

Would I shop him or her? Probably not tbh. Would I complain if Junkyard did? No, probably not either. But I’d give him a hiding and shop him for being morally suspect.

Some of you lot sound as if you’d have your kid banged up for nicking some pick ‘n’ mix.

Well they’d want to let the judge decide – surely that’s the point?

yes you seen through me with your great vision and insight only matched by your moral code and sense of superiority…would you possibly either forgive me or stop grassing

😆 it is hard to be cross with you, junkyard

Well they’d want to let the judge decide – surely that’s the point?

The point is whether or not they’d shop their kid for this sort of offence, which is fairly trivial in my view.

it is hard to be cross with you, junkyard

I find if you keep trying, it’s manageable. I try to get cross with him once a week – now that he’s morally suspect, it’s going to be easier.

Breaking into a shop and taking stuff is trivial?

Anyway, a point of the law is to be independent and consider all relevant facts right?

surely that’s the point?

I would decide first then defer if I deemed appropriate.

Breaking into a shop and taking stuff is trivial?

Anyway, the point of the law is to be independent and consider all relevant facts right?

Who said anything about breaking in?

If you place so much store in the law, will you turn yourself in the next time you break the speed limit? Clearly not, so the point is that it’s a judgement call.

I do have a problem with the epithet grass . basically in my view anyone who calls some one a grass as an insult is a bit morally suspect.

There are two distinct groups of people who get called Grass:
1) professional or lifestyle criminals who make a few quid or get a bit of lea way by informing on there fellow villains. These in my view are proper grasses viewed as scum by other criminals as they go against the villains code. Viewed as scum by right thinking people because they are lifestyle villains and hypocrites to boot.

2) members of the public who witness crime won’t stand for it and tell the authorities and or give evidence in court . that is not a bad thing it is avery good thing and a corner stone of civilised society.

Someone who labels a witness a grass is someone who should be “marked as ‘unreliable as an acquaintance. not community minded and likely to create problems rather than solving them’.”

The danger with Cameron’s knee jerk maximum jail time cut off their benefits and evict them rant is that as people perceive criminal justice to be unfair they will chose not to cooperate and give information so criminals will go unpunished.

Who said anything about breaking in?

Oh, so if they broke in first you would hand them in then?

Oh, so if they broke in first you would hand them in then?

Maybe. I’d have to be pretty sure that handing them in was the only way likely to get them back on the straight and narrow. Saddling your kid with a criminal record isn’t something to be done lightly.

Indeed but doesn’t it get cleared at 16? Certainly after a period of time anyway.

Still, other’s here seem to think that handing kids in is morally wrong which seems odd and is perhaps a broken society thing?!

no, crankboy, No!

Someone who labels a witness a grass is someone who should be “marked as ‘unreliable as an acquaintance. not community minded and likely to create problems rather than solving them’

the OP on that thread didn’t witness ANYTHING, it was all heresay – which you would have gathered had you read the whole thing…AND the comment was in relation to this:

A neighbour? God I hope not, I’m far from a snob, but I work hard & I’m happy to say I don’t need or want social/council housing, I work hard to live in a nice town with decent schools for my kids, yes I am fortunate, but I do put in the hours to make sure I am.

which struck me at the time of being EXACTLY what the worst kind of curtain twitcher says to justify themselves, and usually they aren’t community minded unless it serves their own purposes.

I wouldn’t shop anyone in to the police, I certainly wouldn’t do it to my own kids!

if a crime has been committed then its up to the poo lice to solve it on their own doing the job they are paid for.

Still, other’s here seem to think that handing kids in is morally wrong which seems odd and is perhaps a broken society thing?!

You could turn the argument round and say those handing in their kids can’t be bothered to instil discipline themselves, and are happy to let the police do it instead. Handing in your kid should be very much the last resort.

if a crime has been committed then its up to the poo lice to solve it on their own doing the job they are paid for.

No such thing as society right?

Honestly, if I knew your kid had come home after burning/looting a neighbourhood business and that you knew too and did nothing, I would consider you to be morally suspect too.

Luckily for my kids I take their liberty over your opinion of me.

You make that statement as if I wouldn’t try and stop them or as if I wouldn’t have to carry out some sanction to sort them out. But I wouldn’t hand them over to the morally suspect police.

You could turn the argument round and say those handing in their kids can’t be bothered to instil discipline themselves

How long on the naughty step for a 42″ Plasma?

mudshark – Member
No such thing as society right?

no such thing as me helping the poo lice 😉

The real question here is…
What the flippin’ ‘eck were the kids doing there in the 1st place?

So if the kid had broken an explicit instruction to NOT be there and then meandered in with looted goodies = kid should be expecting to get shopped by parent.

If kid had been out looting and parent knew = hardly the kind of parent to shop their kid.

If parent doesn’t know where kid is of a night = hardly the kind of parent to shop their kid.