I’ve been looking for a nearly new car for a while (recent 520d M-Sport Touring BMW) but I really don’t want to pay the prices dealers are offering and it’s not the sort of car that comes up privately very often.

Now one has just come up at a decent price but it’s a Cat S repair. It’s a good chunk off the price you’d pay at a stealer for an un-repaired vehicle but I’ve not experience of buying such things. If all repairs were done properly (and the suggestion is that they were) is it a good idea and are there any ongoing pitfalls? (more expensive insurance etc)

I’m not worried about the resale as it’s obviously proportionate. I’d just be getting a better car than I’d otherwise be able to justify. (I’m buying on a personal loan rather than PCP as I’m not paying PCP rates of interest and I’d rather own it at the end)

#firstwordproblem obviously but this is STW ;o)

Any advice welcomed.

Gary

It’s all about personal appetite to risk. Sounds like you’re considering all angles. The only other thing I’d check would be insurance quotes.

PS Nice choice of motor

Nope

S is what used to be CatC, i.e. it needs checking before it goes back on the road. If it’s been checked by someone in real life, not an internet expert in knee jerk reactions, then what’s the problem?

Cat S is bad. Structural type damage. I would not drop serious cash into one – if one was give away price and i fancied a punt maybe but Its a big risk (unless you can get full transparency on what was wrong and what was done to fix it – and you know what you are doing obvs).

If it’s been checked by someone in real life

The check that is required is a safety check .

That doesnt mean it has been repaired correctly.*

I have no issue with Cat repaired cars on bangers but quite why youd spend alot of money on one is beyond me, Infact ill go as far as to say id rather buy the damaged car and repair it my self so as to know the damage is repaired to (at least) my (low) standard.

Seen more than one with interesting rust appearing , Rattles that other similar vehicles dont have and one 4wd bmw a colleague had that was damaged to a Cat repair that he had repaired . It passed safety inspeciton and used to eat tires due to a diff that was damaged in the crash.

It’s up at £15k+ vs £23k+ at a dealer for a straight one.

I’ll give it some thought and may get in touch but being as they’ve a few cars for sale I’m now thinking they’re playing at dealing and should be avoided.

£15k for a Cat S? Not with a shitty stick! 🙂

yeah I’m talking 1500 quid – maybe 3 grand for something different.

at 15k id be wanting a folder of before after and during repair photos that i can use to reference my own inspection off.

what sort of warrenty does this CAT S car come with . im not familiar with the particular car but BMW major system repairs for common faults on damaged repairables such as water ingress wont be cheap.

basically go in with your eyes wide open and don’t be swayed by the price.

The check that is required is a safety check .

That doesnt mean it has been repaired correctly.*

I have no issue with Cat repaired cars on bangers but quite why youd spend alot of money on one is beyond me, Infact ill go as far as to say id rather buy the damaged car and repair it my self so as to know the damage is repaired to (at least) my (low) standard.

Seen more than one with interesting rust appearing , Rattles that other similar vehicles dont have and one 4wd bmw a colleague had that was damaged to a Cat repair that he had repaired . It passed safety inspeciton and used to eat tires due to a diff that was damaged in the crash.

Agree with this. If its a Cat S car that would be worth £20k+ I’d rather buy it damaged at an auction for £10k and repair it myself. I watch this guy on you tube who does this sort of thing in the US. Very interesting content for car geeks.

You need to skip the infomercial bit!

That kind of repair is never as good as new , apart from compromised rust protection any welding to the
structural bodywork defeats part of the deformation plan for an impact.
A long time ago I worked in a bodyshop, the advice I got is that anything that needed paint is never as good.
So you get a discount and the vehicle may have been expertly repaired , but unless you witness the repair anything could have been done during the fixup, spot welding is the biggest problem , it may look right on major panels but to do a proper weld it all needs checking/calibrating/maintaining , not sure that happens in the typical bodyshop so instead of a major panel deforming and transferring load into the rest of the structure of the car it simply rips off..

Lookup Arthur Tussik for an idea of what gets fixed.

I don’t think I’d spend that much on one. To be cat S at that price range means its had at least £15k of damage. That’s somewhat different to a £5k car being written off because someone scraped up the side of it

Stealer? Car dealers are a business like any others. Yup, they’ll try and make a little profit out of you but on the flip side you’ve got a bit of backup from them if things go wrong.

You don’t want to pay PCP levels of interest? PCP rates are usually comparable with personal loans aren’t they? And you can own it / pay off the balloon at the end should you want to.

Personally I probably would buy a Cat S car – but it would need to be around half the value of a comparable one.

Yes I’d buy a Cat S car if I was confident of the quality of repair.

Remember any car could have been damaged “structurally” and then repaired by the insurance company, you would never know. Write off is a financial decision, not a degree of damage.

Having said that you can get a very nice car for £15k, this isn’t anything special just a dull diesel estate.

If it was a 911 or something special you couldn’t otherwise get for £15k then go for it.

autotrader is full of dull diesel estates that haven’t been crashed for £15k.

Some insurers will want a formal engineers report before accepting the risk. If it hasn’t got one there’s scope for a further price reduction.

Never heard of or been asked for an engineers report by any insurer for any of my recorded cars.

Does not affect insurance until they come to pay out again on the car if you crash it, then they will chip you down 20%+ on value.

Its a myth.

Think about it, so long as it has an MOT its ‘safe’ so no different risk to any other car. In fact insurance should be cheaper as the value is lower therefore less risk for the insurer.

Stealer? Car dealers are a business like any others. Yup, they’ll try and make a little profit out of you but on the flip side you’ve got a bit of backup from them if things go wrong.

In theory there’s some comeback but I don’t want to pay up to £4k for a Valet and the impression of some kind of “warranty”. I may have to revise my opinion but I’d rather buy a genuine private than pay for a shiny suit and the forecourt. ;o)

You don’t want to pay PCP levels of interest? PCP rates are usually comparable with personal loans aren’t they? And you can own it / pay off the balloon at the end should you want to.

Not even close and I don’t like the idea of those things anyway. I don’t want to rent a car for 4 years then have to give it back. I’d like to keep this for a while or be able to swap it at any point.

Frustratingly prices seem to have jumped £2k in the last few weeks post shutdown.

so no different risk to any other car

Other than the risk of water ingress , and perforation.

Safe and of the same quality as a non cat s are different.

Wether that risk is acceptable is up to you.

A 5* NCAP from 2018 is probably still better than my 2006 C-Max in most regards ;o)

I’ll probably give it a miss. Thanks for all the advice.

Anyone selling a 520d M-Sport touring and want more than trade in money for it?

;o)

Gary

I wouldn’t touch a £15K cat s with a barge pole.

Not even close and I don’t like the idea of those things anyway. I don’t want to rent a car for 4 years then have to give it back.

That’s not how a pcp works. Firstly you own the car and secondly you don’t have to hand it back. That is one option if you’d like. And usually they have lower interest rates. Mine and my wife’s do and my dad and another mate has them on zero percent interest deals. Despite the low interest rates they are not the most interest efficient way of car ownership due to the interest allpoied to the balloon payment, but the payment structure enables you to own a car you can’t really afford. Either buy a cheaper car conventionally or pay a bit more interest and have a much nicer car. You pay your money and take your choice. Personally I think car ownership is for mugs anyway. A car is a resource not an asset and ownership costs you more in the long run. But each to their own.

As to owning a cat s car it all depends on the repair. If done right it can be stronger and better than new. IF done right. If not it’s basically a cut and shut.

If done right it can be stronger and better than new

How exactly ?

Maybe they have fitted a cage and full harnesses to make it stronger than new?

Why pay £15k on a (steeply) depreciating, possibly problematic and questionable car, when for £1k down and £360 a month you can drive a brand new one for three years? (Cheaper new cars are available)

The maths of loan + higher maintenance + depreciation at that level doesn’t seem to work for me.

I struggled with paying £8k for our car, and I (did) 25k+ per year in a big family car making leases or PCP daft money. I’m a huge second hand fan, but £15k of cold, hard, cash on a Cat luxo-barge with expensive parts?

I wouldn’t.

You’ll get absolutely nothing for it if you decide to sell it. Dealers and clued up privateers will do a check so you might get a mug who doesn’t check.

Not for that much though!

Its highly unlikely that a cat S BMW has been repaired using the correct repair methods. Structural damage would include damage to the chassis or other box sections. BWW use special high strength steels for these components. This type of steel cannot be safely repaired, and must be replaced using cold techniques Ie they are bonded and riveted, the do this you need a self piecing rivet gun these cost in the region of £4000.

All the suspension components are aluminium any damage to a front wheel that requires an adjustment of the geometry would require all the suspension the steering rack and lower column replacing to comply with the repair methods.

The chances of someone buying a cat S BMW at a salvage auction and safely repairing it and selling it for a profit at a significantly lower price than an unprepared car are nil

Never heard of or been asked for an engineers report by any insurer for any of my recorded cars.

Personal experience with a £50 car from a neighbour. The V50 had Cat “something” repair noted on it and in the interests of disclosure I told the company. They declined to quote unless I submitted a full engineers report.

Your experience may differ but it is not a myth!

No matter how well the repair has been done there will always be something that’ll give it away. I looked at a Cat c Mini a while back, nice car and good price but it had a chipped casting low down at the front of the engine – new engine to fix it which they obviously hadn’t spent out on.
It also had funny tyre wear which a simple four wheel alignment should easily sort out (according to the seller)…..

Just how bashed up must it have been to be uneconomical to repair?

We had a car from a main dealer that was not Cat anything but over the year we had it it became clear it had been in an accident and fixed. The car was never right, let in water, excessive wear of the rear tyres and plenty of other niggles. Got some of the faults fixed under warranty then traded it in. It cost £12k and from memory we lost about £5k when swapping.

I would be reluctant to spend anything other than bangernomics money on a car that had been bumped, let alone Cat registered.

I would be reluctant to spend anything other than bangernomics money on a car that had been bumped, let alone Cat registered.

you have no idea that a car has been bumped unless it has been cat registered. it just gets repaired then, at some point, sold on

No matter how well the repair has been done there will always be something that’ll give it away.

I have a porsche 944 written off with a small dent to one, small panel, that was readily available. It would have been completely possible to repair it with zero trace. £5k was the repair quote on this

I live between huddersfield and bradford. The amount of shoddily repaired cars that i see pass my house is increadable. The fact that you can see them as they wizz past at 80 mph only makes me realise that i wouldnt touch one with a bargepole.

Note that not all cars are even registered as damaged.

£5k was the repair quote on this

yes but its a 944 . not a nearly new car – Be surprised if unless its a 1 owner museum piece if it would get 5k on the open market.

different car to a 15k near new car thats been busted up enough to be written off.

equally there are bumps and there are bumps.

My big vans been in a couple of bumps. was very easy to see where they had done the paint work and the corners they had cut. but it wasnt 15k – and becasue i could see where they were it was a calculated risk as to the repairs they had done vs missed out.

Like the chap above who spotted a chipped engine block – its very rare a car thats had a good amount of damage will have been repairs to as new because everyone these days is mike brewer/edd china the arse is out of that market – Big market in non classified damaged repairable on ebay and trade books – i dont believe for a minute these are correctly reported – how ever the folk that do this often if not always leave obvious clues if you know what your looking for.

yes but its a 944 . not a nearly new car – Be surprised if unless its a 1 owner museum piece if it would get 5k on the open market.

I got rid of it years ago. it’d be worth a fair bit more than 5k now though – the cheapest (s2) with similar milage on autotrader is £11k (and thats a less-desirable convertible).