Apparently the cargo also contained items useful to the continuation of the intifada by being used to politicise Palestinian children through the use of colourful imagery…

…In other words, such deadly items as childrens crayons.

Exactly how hard do you have to throw a crayola before it becomes acceptable to respond with automatic weapons fire?

You have to throw it pretty hard. That's tricky, so the kids mostly throw stones. The little bastards deserve everything they get if they cross that line. Teaches them not to pick fights with the wrong guy, you see.

HeathenWoods;Typical zionist reaction,we will do what we want,if you complain you are a holocaust denying Nazi.
Hear,hear Ernie.

Lol. You've really not read my posts have you duckman? In every single one I have said that Israel's actions are reprehensible, inexcusable and so on. What I have also said, however, is that let's not forget that Israel exists within a region in which anti-semitism is widespread; a partial explanation for a paranoid state is not an excuse. It's an attempt to have a conversation about the complexities of the situation. Israel's actions are not defensible – it's doubtful if the manner in which modern Israel was created is, in itself, defensible – but it takes a special kind of dualistic naivety to suppose that Hamas, or Syria, or Iran, or Egypt, are, as political entities, in any way, 'better' or less reprehensible and that Israel's actions are without any kind of context at all.

The middle east is in a total mess and levelling the blame at any single country's door is to lose track of the complexity of teh situation.

It uses nazi-style tactics, simple as

No, it doesn't. It uses inexcusable, utterly repugnant tactics but these are not comparable to the tactics of the Nazis. As has been pointed out above the only regime directly comparable to the Nazis was the Stalinist phase of the USSR.

Not every monstrous political regime can be summed up as, "Fascist!" And no one's ever going to understand wtf is going on if they just join in with the chorus every time they sense a chance to reconfirm their own 'radical' 'progressive' beliefs. I'd guess you're too young to remember The Young Ones but you might have seen the repeats. Does this look familiar?

Yes, those protesters should bring their entire family to protest too with babies, old people, parents, etc … then cry foul as loudly as they can by saying the evil empire has murdered them cold blooded. They were hacked to death with machete or something … or being skewered alive …

WTF! You guys do have a twisted mind by being good at either sticking your nose in others business or advocating something that is completely one sided with a die hard attitude. Worst still completely utterly racist.

Oh look … they are from middle east (Palestine) … they need help so we need to risk our lives to help them oh no … they are "brothers & sisters" we need to help them … WTF!

Yeah right … dont even see you doing to the same to the Burmese regime nor protest strongly to the Chinese govt do you … bunch bias no good cowards. So those people in the far east with "funny eyes" do not deserve help but those that do not eat bacon need helping more?

WTF! I say torpedo the aid ship North Korean style will learn you by trying to start a war.

😆 😈 😆

Behold! Ladies and gentlemen, the least coherent post in the history of STW. /thread, we can achieve no more.

You've really not read my posts have you duckman?

And yet you ignore/pretend not to understand what I have posted.

To save you the bother of going back a page, here it is again :

And that is precisely why some of the Zionist State's most vehement critics are Holocaust survivors.

Israel is a racist fascist state, and it uses the tactics of ethnic cleansing, military conquest, occupation, and expansionism.

It also uses the Nazi-style tacit, in violation of the Geneva Convention, of collective punishment of civilians in retaliation for any resistance to occupation.

And again in classic Nazi-style, and also in violation of the Geneva Convention, Israel moves its own civilian population onto occupied territories. Israel uses its civilians as instruments of conquest.

The attempt to break the Palestinian people into submission by creating a blockade and causing a humanitarian crises, has far more in common with the behaviour of a fascist pariah state, than the international norms which we would be right to expect. The Gaza Strip is in effect, an giant concentration camp.

And I for one, will not excuse, or shy away from denouncing, the Zionists …….. simply because of what the German Nazis did to the Jewish people.

A little while back there was another racist pariah state – in the form of the Apartheid Regime. The people who made up the backbone of that regime were the Boers, and they too were a people who had experienced persecution, slaughter, and concentration camps. But never at any time did I think it in some way, excused the racist and brutal behaviour of the Apartheid State. The Zionists are not special.

.

And I have already suggested that if it makes you feel better, I will replace the "racist fascist state" with "racist state which uses nazi-style tactics". It makes no odds to me.

Now, do you want to challenge that those examples which I give are not "nazi-style tactics" ?

Northwind: "Er, what? Nobody's ever claimed it's carrying nothing but food aid that I've seen, but building materials are absolutely neccesary aid for Gaza, and aid that Israel has been blocking- needed to rebuild houses, hospitals, sewers, water systems and general infrastructure."

Torpedo regardless … trying to be clever … fair and square no discrimination.

😈

ernie_lynch: "Israel is a racist fascist state, and it uses the tactics of ethnic cleansing, military conquest, occupation, and expansionism."

You need to bow down to Dear Leader Kim the peaceful loving dear leader because the whole world is trying to invade his dear country and you should ask him for forgiveness. Ask him to bless your mission.

So you are going to wipe Israel off the world map with your peace loving kind hearted aid aren't you?

You are so sweet with all your Nazi talk.

😆

No. stupid question.

What the blazes is Chewkw talking about?

Lifer – Member

What the blazes is Chewkw talking about?

The die hard bias attitude of those who went ape shite by crying foul because they could not breach the blockage, then trying to get the world media to portray them as victim of merciless state.

I say torpedo them trouble makers by stirring up nonsense.

😆

Ernie, you carry on misapplying historically specific terminology; they have become pretty much meaningless terms through misapplication so who am I to stop the trend. As far as I'm concerned it's enough to say that Israel is a paranoid and reprehensible state, there's no need to insistently call them fascist or Nazi-like. There are very real fascists and neo-nazis opposed to Israel and by lazily calling israeli fascist or nazi-like you muddy the waters and hide the activities of actual, real fascists and neo-nazis.

And that is precisely why some of the Zionist State's most vehement critics are Holocaust survivors.

And many more of its other most vehement critics are neo-Nazis who use the cover of liberal hegemonic antipathy to Israeli violence to insinuate an anti-Semitic agenda; you keep dodging that one Ernie, why can't you admit that, yes, there are anti-semites who would love to see Israel burn?

Just in case duckman happens along again: I have long seen Israel as a rogue state that acts with little regard for human rights and do not defend any of its actions. But at the same time I'm not about to pretend that it isn't surrounded by states who would seek to eradicate it and, seemingly, most of its people. It's a mess out there and I don't thinking standing on the sidelines shouting, "Booo! Fascist!" Is really getting to grips with the situation. I'm still lolling at the zionist accusation, you were pretty far off the mark with that one.

Ernie……..blah, blah, blah………anti-Semitic agenda….blah, blah, blah, ……..more blah, blah, blah

Opposition to the Zionism and the Israeli State is not based on racism against Jews. So don't go pulling this
"anti-Semitic" card bollox on me.

I couldn't give a monkeys if some of the people who are opposed to Israel are members of the BNP. I will continue to denounce Israel as I see fit, and I will continue to support the Palestinian people in their struggle.

And I will also continue to denounce the tactics of ethnic cleansing, military conquest, occupation, and expansionism. I will highlight the similarities between these tactics and those of the Nazis. I will continue to denounce Israel for violating the Geneva Convention in the Occupied Territories.

I will condemn the bulldozing of homes and the systematic destruction of ancient olive groves and all other forms of collective punishment. I will condemn the annexation of East Jerusalem and the building of settlements on Occupied Territories. I will condemn the racism at the very core of the Israeli State.

And I will continue to praise the courageous stand of many Israelis and Jews against the barbaric Zionist State. Tonight, as we sit in comfort and safety before our PCs, there are brave Israelis in custody who were on board the Aid Flotilla for Gaza. And they, along with their Palestinian colleagues, won't be amongst the foreign nationals who are being released as the result of international pressure. I don't know what fate awaits them, and I don't suppose they do either, but I do know that I am humbled by their bravery and courage.

I will never forget the bravery of Mordechai Vanunu ……still to this day, he is paying the price for his courageous stand.

http://beta.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/article443950.ece?homepage=true

ernie, not meaning to put gasoline on the fire, so to speak, but just how many times have you been to Israel or Gaza? Have you even been there at all? 🙂

Whoops,sorry Heathenwoods; That was meant for Norton. 😳

Some interesting opinions going on here. It appears to me that some STWers look at the Mid East problem with little understanding of the other sides problems and concerns. That's a good way of achieving not a lot, just like the whole middle east issue itself.

If you look at the troubles in N.I (more complex issues in Mid East but similar issues)you had two sides that couldn't live together and it took an amazing individual (Mo Mowlem) to bring them together. She had an amazing determination to find a solution and to me was a very inspirational lady. A determined, forward looking individual like Mo to bring people together, coupled with focused international pressure on all sides will bring a solution to the problem as no matter how fascist, racist, violent, hateful either side happen to be or regard the other side of being has to happen. We can't turn the clock back now so people in the Mid East have to live together.
The "aid convoy" fiasco could have been avoided if Egypt and Israel had invited the ships to dock in one of their ports and they could have requested that the UN inspect the cargo. Then Israel/Egypt could have temporarily lifted their blockade and forwarded the "aid" on. The supply of arms can be limited if the USA/UK and Iran/Syria quit their blinkered support for either side etc etc.

What is needed is the political will power ON BOTH SIDES to sort the mess out and until that happens it will be business as usual in the Mid East, unfortunately.

IMHO 😀

Opposition to the Zionism and the Israeli State is not based on racism against Jews. So don't go pulling this "anti-Semitic" card bollox on me.

If you read more carefully (like, with your eyes open) rather than jumping to assumptions you might have noticed that I'm also critical of the Israeli state, that I've said all along that its actions are reprehensible. But what I've also said is that there are vehemently anti-Semitic elements amongst the critics of Israel; at no point have I said that all criticism of Israell is anti-Semitic. Do you seriously believe that there is no anti-Semitism involoved in *any* of this? Either you're sticking your head in the sand, have no idea of the world beyond little England, or really, really don't want anti-Semitism discussed for whatever reason.

I will never forget the bravery of Mordechai Vanunu

Nor will many other people, your point is caller?

What is needed is the political will power ON BOTH SIDES to sort the mess out and until that happens it will be business as usual in the Mid East, unfortunately.

+1!

Hw; The abuse that Israel is getting is because of recent history.I associate the COUNTRY with the acts,not the religion.Most of the posts on the beeb website yesterday did the same thing.Trying to suggest that the condemnation of the last few days is anti-semitic is an increasingly tired old excuse that is trotted out by the likes of that absolute arse of an Aussie spokesman that they use.Mind you,having visited it,they can't even get on with each other.Having a common enemy (that is in little position to fight back) must be handy for the Israelis.

it cant be anti semitic as both parties are semitic.
To cry racism when people object to Israeli actions is cheap and meaningless..I noticed that even Radio 4 has had Israel citixzens on justifying ehat Israel did bit has not had an interview with a protestor. It is clear that no one here is learning from history and it is shocking to see Israel committing it's own atrocities and oppressing people in the name of security. The violate iNternational law and UN mandates and are a law unto themseleve. Certainly if this was a Muslim nation doing this to Jews we would see a different response from the West.

I'm afraid that Israel will only stop taking pre-emptive action that violates international law when forced to do so by trade embargoes led by the US.

Until then we're pissing in the wind.

Right I think this is my final post on the subject,we (the rest of the world)need to pull this situation into some kind of sustainable line.
Israel needs to stop expanding (of course they need to hand back a lot),palestine/gaza need more than a postage stamp sized piece of land to stand a chance of building any kind of self sustaining economy .if we stopped blindly supporting israels position it could be one less thing for the islamists of this world to hate us for (I've always liked the view from the moral high ground,may even take the bike up there for the ride back down)
I don't really care about changing any of your minds,it'll make no difference there are a few blokes around the world that could, but they don't give a toss for the views of a plumber from essex. Good luck chaps im of for a ride with the kids

The IDF should simply nuke themselves. Deals with a lot of problems and would amount to a novel PR coup. Can't be any worse than the latest foot/uzi interface.

Foot/Uzi Interface…I like that

Trying to suggest that the condemnation of the last few days is anti-semitic is an increasingly tired old excuse

Nope, that's not what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that amongst it, anti-semites and neo-nazis are present and that it's useful to be wary of the way in which some of the 'criticism'* is an excuse for wheeling out thinly veiled nazi sympathies and straight forward prejudice. I'm not talking about the liberal european press but some of the Arab and/or Muslim groups as well as smaller crypto-nazi groups/individuals in the West.

I summed up my point pages ago: sometimes the enemy of your enemy is also your enemy.

You know how we always get those videos of Hezbollah or Hamas celebrating a suicide bombing or whatever shown on the news? Anyone seen this video on the news of Israelis celebrating the attack, outside the Turkish embassy in Tel Aviv?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdhKqGoMJms&feature=player_embedded#!

Nope, that's not what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that amongst it, anti-semites and neo-nazis are present and that it's useful to be wary of the way in which some of the 'criticism'

Yeah, I think we know what you're saying. I haven't a bollocking clue what your point is though?

Are you saying we should stop criticising the Zionist expansionist state because a crowd of fringe nutters are jumping on our holier than thou bandwagon?

I will never forget the bravery of Mordechai Vanunu

Nor will many other people, your point is caller?

I was hoping you'd ask me what my point was……..thank you 8)

Mordechai Vanunu is back in the news this week. Well actually he isn't…… that's the point – he should be.
Because he is one of Israel's leading dissidents and the Israeli government have just thrown him back in prison.

But he doesn't make the headlines and the TV news because the agenda is set by the US and Israel. And it is unacceptable to say or report bad things about Israel……..the Jews suffered terribly under the Nazis – doncha know ? People who criticise Israel are anti-Semitic and racist.

If Mordechai Vanunu was a leading Iranian dissident and had just been thrown back into prison by the Iranian authorities, then he would probably have made top billing on BBC news. But then criticising the Iranians isn't racist, you see.

If course the irony of all this is that it is the Palestinians, if anyone, who are the victims of racism – not the Israelis.

If only the Palestinians spoke with that Harvard educated accent which Israeli government spokesmen invariably seem to have …… instead of making those strange rasping foreign sounds.

If only the Palestinians looked more like Europeans, just like Israelis invariably seem to do, instead of looking like the pure Semites which they actually are.

If only the Palestinians didn't look so much like dirty Arabs……..then perhaps, we might feel more sympathetic towards them about having their lands stolen.

Far more of the anti-Palestinian sentiments smack of racism than the anti-Israeli ones.

Anyone seen this video on the news of Israelis celebrating the attack, outside the Turkish embassy in Tel Aviv?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdhKqGoMJms&feature=player_embedded#!

Thats terrible what a thing to celebrate that country really has some evil people.

tyger – Member

ernie, not meaning to put gasoline on the fire, so to speak, but just how many times have you been to Israel or Gaza?

I've been waiting for you to appear on this thread tyger………where you been geezer ❓

Although I have to confess that it was hardly worth the wait ……..is that ^^^ really the best you could come up with ? 😕

No mate, I've never been to Gaza, why's that ? Do people with strong Palestinian sympathies like me end up being pro-Israeli after visiting Gaza ?

Of course the irony of your suggestion is that the Israeli authorities probably wouldn't let me into Gaza. Certainly it is practically impossible for foreign politicians, humanitarian workers, human rights inspectors, and even the UN, to be allowed onto Gaza.

And I can't think why………….it's not like it's a concentration camp ……… is it ? 😕

I'll tell you of one person who has been to Gaza though, that's Richard Falk.

Richard Falk is an American professor of international law at Princeton University. He has been to Gaza as United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights and United Nations Special Rapporteur.

And even though he is a UN official, the Israelis have expelled him and banned him……what other country would do that sort of thing eh ?

But anyway, let me tell you what conclusion the American professor of international law, United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, and United Nations Special Rapporteur came to. Well funnily enough, it's the same as me, ie, that the Israelis use Nazi-style tactics.

And I'll tell you something else that's funny. Richard Falk is a Jew. And a proper Jew too…….he even looks like one, as this photo shows :

Here is some of the stuff he has had to say :

"There is little doubt that the Nazi Holocaust was as close to unconditional evil as has been revealed throughout the entire bloody history of the human species.

Against this background, it is especially painful for me, as an American Jew, to feel compelled to portray the ongoing and intensifying abuse of the Palestinian people by Israel through a reliance on such an inflammatory metaphor as ‘holocaust.’

Is it an irresponsible overstatement to associate the treatment of Palestinians with this criminalized Nazi record of collective atrocity? I think not. The recent developments in Gaza are especially disturbing because they express so vividly a deliberate intention on the part of Israel and its allies to subject an entire human community to life-endangering conditions of utmost cruelty.

It is helpful to recall that the liberal democracies of Europe paid homage to Hitler at the 1936 Olympic Games, and then turned away tens of thousands of Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi Germany. I am not suggesting that the comparison should be viewed as literal, but to insist that a pattern of criminality associated with Israeli policies in Gaza has actually been supported by the leading democracies of the 21st century."

Read more here :

Slouching toward a
Palestinian Holocaust

I haven't a bollocking clue what your point is though?

My point is that Israel has acted disgustingly but I'm not about to pretend that it is the only political entity in the region which is despicable however easy it is to lose sight of that in light of Israel's actions. And that's the problem with both the actions and the reactions, we live in a simplified age of good guys and bad guys – public reaction is valued more highly than analysis. So, yes, an emotional and empathic response is only right and unavoidable but we see 'opinion' shaped by this knee-jerk reaction: Israel acts horribly so *it is all their fault*. It's not. They carry a large part of the blame and Israel is governed by a vile regime but, then, so is the Palestinian Legislative Council.

My point? A bit of balance. I'm anti-Israel but then I'malso hearing alarming noises emerging in the 'outrage'. Few things are as clearcut and simple as they're being presented.

My point is that in all the vitriol directed at Israel is a vein of racial hatred which is galvanised by recent events (check out the Stormfront, Davidicke forums and so on to see what I mean) and which

My point is that in all the vitriol directed at Israel is a vein of racial hatred……

That really is unadulterated crap.

People of all races and colours (including Jews) throughout the world, have been united in their condemnation of Israel.

In fact, this incident has indisputably broken down ethic and racial barriers. One quick simple example, on the humanitarian aid flotilla which left Cyprus, there were Greek and Turkish captains.

Yes, two nationalities and sworn enemies which have gone to war over Cyprus. And yet, the captain from Muslim Turkey and the captain from Christian Greece were united and determined in their mission to ship humanitarian relief to the people of Gaza.

And btw, the Irish Prime Minister has warned Israel of "the most serious consequences" if the Israelis injure any Irish citizens on-board the MV Rachel Corrie.

The only actual racists in this tragic story are the Zionists.

And it really is unbelievable that should claim condemnation of Israel plays into the hands of Neo-Nazis. The Austrian, Dutch, and British far right for example, have little time for Israel, they are far too busy vilifying and spreading hatred against Muslims.

In fact, the BNP doesn't even bother to mention the incident on their front page, have a look :

http://www.bnp.org.uk/

Not that I would give a monkeys if they did……..the BNPs opinions do not dictate my moral judgement.

BTW, I typed in the words "Gaza" and "Israel" into the BNP's search function and got : "Your search yielded no results" Do they really care that little ? 😕

However, I won't deny that the American neo-Nazis are so backward that they still mainly talk about "**** and Jews". But so what ? That is hardly a justification for keeping quiet about the barbaric treatment of the Palestinian people at the hands of the Israelis ffs

ernie_lynch: "People of all races and colours (including Jews) throughout the world, have been united in their condemnation of Israel."

What a load of shite! 😆

They are more likely to be seen as a bunch of trouble makers sticking their dirty noses into others business deliberately to create tension. They are so self-centred (delusion) to the point of willingness to scarify their children, babies, and some old people (ya the old man who shouted victory) in the name of being seen as "victims"

BBC is such a joke that people in the other part of the world started to question their credibility each time Israel was involved. Well, no credit really since it's one sided most of the time.

"In fact, this incident has indisputably broken down ethic and racial barriers. One quick simple example, on the humanitarian aid flotilla which left Cyprus, there were Greek and Turkish captains."

LOL! I see skeleton in your closet.

Turks govt = wipe the Kurds to Kingdom Come. Yea right … vile govt.

Oh ya … some of the activists on the "messy cruise" are from countries in South East Asia that continue to persecute people on religion, race, gender and sexual preferences. Worst still these people cannot even stop abusing their own minority yet they cry foul so loudly wanting to be seen as "whiter than white". Vile … such a vile bunch of low lives … Equal rights? Human rights? You must be an ape man to think they give a damn …yet, on this particular trip they are "brothers & sisters" … vile, vile, vile.

"The only actual racists in this tragic story are the Zionists."

Unfortunately no. What the world has just witnessed is a bunch vile political and religiously twisted minded no good that try to create tension by using babies, old people etc, to breach the blockage.

I say torpedo them … that will learn them vile twisted minds.

😈

No need to go in to prehistory and try to right every wrong, to understand this situation – don't attack people who aren't attacking you. Simples.

chewkw;are you on the glue?

I'm not sure he needs glue, or if does he's on it almost all the time.

Anyway, this thread has been ernie at his absolute best. Chapeau.

I usually LIKE Ernie's posts,he is in fine form.(Talks poo about Iraq ever being a democracy mind :wink:)

DrJ – Member

No need to go in to prehistory and try to right every wrong, to understand this situation – don't attack people who aren't attacking you. Simples.

Or they can go through proper channel/port and let the Israeli army/police search the ship for weapons. But do they want that? Obviously not because that means no more media attention or "me victim, you aggressor" …

duckman – Member

chewkw;are you on the glue?

LOL! No, wish I was so I could numb myself enjoying the bias one sided views but somehow I think those on the "mercy/messy cruise" are on some sort of illegal high …

BigDummy – Member

I'm not sure he needs glue, or if does he's on it almost all the time.

Anyway, this thread has been ernie at his absolute best. Chapeau.

Who needs glue when you have bias one sided affair eh!

Yes, ernie at his best with his funny outlook of the world. Really enjoy reading his stuff. He is a very good entertainer.

😆 <- glue moi?

So why has Israel seized all mobile phones, memory cards and cameras etc from people on the ships if they've got nothing to hide?

grum – Member
So why has Israel seized all mobile phones, memory cards and cameras etc from people on the ships if they've got nothing to hide?

Simple they are telling lies and are trying to hide the truth.

DrJ – Member

"No need to go in to prehistory and try to right every wrong, to understand this situation – don't attack people who aren't attacking you. Simples. "

Or they can go through proper channel/port and let the Israeli army/police search the ship for weapons. But do they want that? Obviously not because that means no more media attention or "me victim, you aggressor" …

The ship was searched many times for weapons, and the flotilla agreed that it should be searched again by a neutral organisation. Of course they wanted media attention, but they probably weren't expecting to be shot or beaten and kidnapped.

Note that, contrary to the claims of the USraeli side, the cargo has NOT been transferred from Ashdod to Gaza. The usual horrible lies.