Difference being faster?

I currently have tubed vittoria rubino tyres (25) on open pro rims (32, 36) on hope hubs.

Nice strong wheels and rims and fine for the riding I do.

The issue is riding occasionally with mate who is about 2mph average faster – so thinking of “cheat” means to get gap down so we can ride at about same pace for both parties enjoyment.

Any thoughts – dont want to spend huge amounts for too small a gain.

Cheers

Sit on his wheel. It’s much cheaper! 😉

At what speed are you going where your mate is 2mph faster? You would both have to be going very fast (30mph?) to see even close to a 2mph improvement from wheels and tyres

🙂

Cruising at 15-17mph

Would tubeless make a big speed difference (road)

Yep: tubeless would mean you spending hours in your workshop trying to get the damn things seated and up to pressure, so you’d have to ride faster to catch everyone else up!

More expensive wheels would be a bit lighter, might be slightly more aero, but realistically the easiest way to keep up to speed will be to be a bit fitter yourself sadly

https://www.merlincycles.com/vision-team-35-disc-clincher-road-wheelset-179495.html combined with something like GP5000s and latex tubes could help.

Any thoughts – dont want to spend huge amounts for too small a gain.

1. Get fitter
2. Stay on their wheel.

When I went from standard rims to aero Zipp wheels I was quicker, but they were the best part of £1,200. To this day I am not sure if they are faster or look faster ?

+1 for better tyres.

Get more aero?

Helmet? Body position?

Some more aero rims might help. If nothing else they look bling.

Going from alloy wheels with rubinos to 50 mm carbon wheels and gp5000s is worth about 0.5-0.75 mph on my commute.

You won’t get 2mph from wheels alone.

If you google ‘rolling resistance’ you will find a website where the rolling resistance of tyres has been compared. Im guessing that you may save c.20 watts on a nice pr of tyres and latex tubes as recommended above.

Ian

2mph is pretty much what you’ve get from optimising absolutely everything you can, except for fitness.

Deep wheels, ultra low RR tyres, aero frame, hidden cables, shoe covers, aero clothing/helmet etc etc
That *might* get you *almost* there, but will cost serious £££££.

Either get fitter or sit on his wheel where he’s stronger than you.

Wheels:

’15-17mph’ is quite a difference. 15mph is quite docile, 17mph is nudging on reasonably pressing on. If you’re riding at a 15mph average ride, they won’t really make difference

17mph, they’ll definitely make a *bit* of a difference. 0.5mph maybe?

Aero wheels come alive over 20mph. Well designed ones (eg zipps) keep your momentum when going fast, eg 23+mph staggeringly well, where shallow box section wheels feel like they’re fighting against you. Riding slowly you don’t really get this effect, which is really the main benefit of ‘aero wheels’

Tyres:

GP5000 or similarly fast tyres (high tpi etc) will **definitely** help if you’re coming from heavier/slower.

Bigger and better tyres run tubeless will probably help, IMO. I am nearly 90kg and modern tyres and wheels (tubeless Pro One and 19mm rims) allow me to run at 55psi, which would have been unthinkable on my old bike where I used to run 95psi. This means on rough roads, which is most of them, the tyres soak up much more buzz and I do think it’s faster. Not sure it’s worth 2mph on your average speed mind.

You’re going about this all wrong. Just make him slower. Keep buying him food/beer and every stop, just lower his pressures a little and pee on his wheel bearings. MUCH cheaper.

GP5000 tyres and latex tubes feel and ride great. Relatively cheap upgrade so start there but also look to get in some structured training on Zwift or something else. Just being able to hold a constant cadence for over an hour will see your average improve.

Deep section wheels look cool and sound great – FWIW that’s all I really care about.

Aero helmet and tight jersey would make more difference, then tyres/ thin tubes maybe.
The rolling resistance site is a bit risky as you have to also factor in real world use, puncture proof etc, it’s very tempting to buy the fastest tyres until you realise they’re super thin

Just tell him to slow down ?

Raise your handlebars up.
Yep, seriously up, whack in a 10 or 15m.spacer.
Tjen ride on the drops alot more of the time.
This will force you to be more aero on the bike. You are the wind brake, not 1″ of rubber.

GPS 5000 as wide as you can and latex tubes.
I rode a lot with a group quicker than me, the first hour I was always dying and it took this long to warm up effectively cos I was forced to go too fast too early.
My tip would be do a half hour gentle warm up before you go out with your mate, then hang on to that wheel.

Latex tubes are nice but be warned you definitely have to keep topping up the air before each ride.

Good tyres and latex tubes will be faster for sure, but not 2mph faster

You’ll save a bundle by ensuring you are in an aero position, and importantly aren’t wearing baggy clothing, even it’s its baggy ‘road cycling’ clothing

Aero for the win…,

All been said already but a change in wheels is going to be barely noticeable on a practical level.

By far the biggest thing slowing you down in the wind is you, so if you can work on your position, do that first.

You’ll get quoted all kinds of power savings for various kit but that’s mostly at TT pace (circa 30mph). Sitting in the wheel will trump any kit savings and probably get you 2mph. If that’s a struggle you’re fighting a losing battle.

Wheels will make a difference, but not hugely noticeable until you’re beyond 40kph / 24mph and then you’ve got to actually get wheels that are actually properly aero. There’s no point putting a big ass tyre on a rim so it forms a lightbulb shape, the tyre needs to blend as smoothly as possible to the rim to get any actual aero benefit.

Tyres vary hugely in they’re drag, take a look here to see the variation across brands and ranges, it’s as much as 15W @ 40kph from the very best to a pretty decent Vittoria Rubino Pro!

the biggest gains are to be had from making the biggest lump of non-aero thing (you) more aero, and that starts with a helmet, then skinsuit and so on.

To put it bluntly you’re not getting 2mph unless you’re going to be riding say 50mm deep aero wheels & fast tyres on aero bars bolted to an aero frame & handlebars in a skin suit and aero helmet everywhere, but if you wear the helmet incorrectly – flappy straps, wrong angle – you’re instantly negating any small advantages anyway and much like wheels the faster you go the bigger the gains, given that the measure of air resistance is roughly the square of velocity.

Position can help massively as demonstrated here, being on the drops is generally not as aero as on the hoods with your arms at right angles and as flat a back as you can get

Just get some nice fast 28mm tyres with latex tubes to begin with. That is by far and away the best value option and will give you excellent returns in £/Watt. Make sure they are at a suitable pressure for your weight (use one of the online calcs). Tubeless won’t offer any speed advantage over latex tubes but will obviously help with punctures. Depends if you can be bothered with the extra faff – I don’t think it’s worth it on a road bike personally.

If you’re using latex tubes then be sure and buy a NON tubeless tyre, otherwise you might as well go tubeless!

I think the logic is (was tested and proven on some GP5000s) that non-tubeless construction + latex tube was marginally lower RR than tubeless construction+ no tube.

I just run latex tubes for an easier life and regular tyre swaps between rollers and outdoors 😎

More on topic – biggest immediate gains I’ve ever enjoyed were working on position and saddle choice. Once I got it nailed I was more aero and with a happy pelvis/hips I could recruit glutes easier and felt like I had access to more power.

Put your wallet away and just ride your bike more, really focus on holding the wheel and staying close to the rider in front. Or just sit up and let him go, if he wants to ride with you he should slow down a bit.

Narrower bars and practice holding the pro flat forearms position.

And to add some perspective – I am not even 2mph slower when riding my fixed gear bike with riser bars on marathon+ tyres (with a lowish gearing) when compared to my CX drop barred geared bike with supple and light 33c tubeless tyres.

In other words a 2mph difference for same effort is much bigger than it sounds.

If you want to buy stuff that may make you a bit faster then go for it, but dont expect miracles as has been said.

This thread has probably said everything, apart from asking what terrain you are riding and where your difference in ability becomes an issue.

If he is dropping you on climbs then some super lightweight wheels might help a little but realistically not the difference between being dropped or not.

If he is dropping you on the flats then you need to learn to hold a wheel better. Flats are where an aero wheelset will help most, but its benefit will be negligible if you are sat on his wheel.

You also need to ask what type of ride you are doing together, is it a gentle ride where you are chatting side by side or is it a balls out training ride? If the former then he should be happy to slow down, if the latter then just sit on his wheel and let him do the work.

This sort of scenario comes up all the time in dysfunctional groups, the stronger riders attack on the hills dropping the weaker / heavier riders, the weaker guys kill themselves, but then once over the top the stronger guys sit in and let the weaker guys do the work until the next hill, and so it repeats. If you’re the stronger ride you need to do your work when it benefits the group (on the flats), not when it allows you to swing your c0ck the most and if you know your not the strongest, stay off the front!