If 50% of the office workers are not there, we’ll have to find lot more jobs for all the service industry folks to do…

The biggest thing I’ve noticed about working from home is that I save loads of money. Simply by taking away the need to commute into Manchester, and all the frivolous spending that it incurs I’m saving at least 5-600 quid a month. That’s a lot of money to suck out of a local economy, and if it turns into a permanent shift away from commuting and working in cities it’s going to require some novel policies to avoid those cities turning into boarded up wastelands.

it’s going to require some novel policies to avoid those cities turning into boarded up wastelands.

Or we could redevelop them so people could live closer to the work and facilities in the city

Simply by taking away the need to commute into Manchester, and all the frivolous spending that it incurs I’m saving at least 5-600 quid a month. That’s a lot of money to suck out of a local economy,

How much of that actually goes into the local economy though? Surely the majority goes to Shell or Arriva / Stagecoach / etc?

And although some of that money will be removed from Manchester city centre, it could be redirected to towns and villages around the cities, creating jobs (pubs/shops etc) to boost our moribund commuter villages and decentralise the economy a little?

How much of that actually goes into the local economy though? Surely the majority goes to Shell or Arriva / Stagecoach / etc?

The profits will end up outside, but the vast majority of the cash will go to pay salaries and rents etc and pay local suppliers. I agree it’s a great opportunity to decentralise the economy and regenerate towns and villages, but there’s a huge danger that deprivation and social decay will set in within big cities. It resembles what happened in the 80s, where a big change in the economy is about to occur. Back then it was industrial and mining communities which became redundant, today it’s going to be city centres. I guess the question is whether history repeats itself and those affected are left to deal with it on their own with no support?

The biggest thing I’ve noticed about working from home is that I save loads of money. Simply by taking away the need to commute into Manchester, and all the frivolous spending that it incurs I’m saving at least 5-600 quid a month. That’s a lot of money to suck out of a local economy.

As a former Credit underwriter and debt adviser, I wouldn’t worry about people suddenly having hundreds of pounds extra a month deciding to save it. Despite what various forums and Social Media platforms might lead you to believe, most people don’t save much, they’ll just find something else to buy.

I know from my own experience of the last 2 months, the committed consumers in my life (my Wife and Mum mostly) have found whole new ways to exchange money for crap.

Unless you physically cant do your work at home then I don’t see it as an issue. Meetings are still plentiful. I’m busy as ever.
Home working is a pretty big intervention in reducing traffic in light of the climate change emergency and has been thought about for years but just needed a push.
Plenty of companies should use it to boost their climate impact.
I don’t see the dis-benefits. Face to face will still be important but that may just have to be organised as and when.

As for decaying cities, believe it or not, some people do generally like living in Cities. Some people REALLY Love shopping in them, socialising etc. Madness I know.

They’ll change, but they always have and rather than assuming change will always be bad, I look at whats happened to Cities and small towns in my lifetime, even if whatever proportion of people who WFH now continue to do so when lock-down ends the shift will probably only reverse a few years of movement that way.

Using Cities as places to have large offices was already on the slide because of the costs, maybe almost ironically home working may reverse that trend in the short-term.

Some people REALLY Love shopping in them, socialising etc. Madness I know.

Well apart from the fact that shopping and socialising doesn’t look like it’ll be returning any time soon, if you take away the footfall from office workers then it’s inevitably going to result in the closure of huge numbers of bars, restaurants, coffee shops etc. Even when they’re allowed to again, no ones going to want to hang out in a city centre which is mostly boarded up.

I only live a mile from the office though so don’t have a crappy commute (in normal times). I also worked shorter hours in the office, generally 7am-4pm, traffic on the business park starts going mental after 4pm (can take 30+ minutes to get out of it at times)

Are you really driving to work? Even though it’s a mile, and the traffic on s so bad it affects your working hours?

If only there were other ways to move from one close-by location to another!

C’mon, enlighten us!

As for decaying cities, believe it or not, some people do generally like living in Cities. Some people REALLY Love shopping in them, socialising etc. Madness I know.

+1, and to add this, probably the worse thing about city life is the number of commuters coming in. Increased traffic, parking issues, large areas devoted to inaccessible office blocks. Not a massive problem and its part of city life but if we have to lose something in the “new normal”, then losing some of this may not be a disaster.

Hah yes I do :p Part laziness but also it takes me 20 minutes to walk it and I like popping home for lunch but if I walk it I spend most of my lunch time walking and then would be rushing to sort food. Weak excuses I know – for sure if I regularly got caught in traffic I’d walk more often but my normal commute times are 6:50am there and 3:50pm back and then it’s 5 minutes for my commute as I miss the traffic.

I’ve really been though the emotional ringer with WFH, but I’ve mostly gotten used to it now, this is my 8th week WFH.

Someone mentioned the EV discussion above and I agree. At the moment the biggest barrier for me (apart from everyone being at home as well). I’ve used a desktop with dual monitors for years. So I brought them home, 2x 1080 24″ monitors and I use them effectively. I ‘need’ dual monitors, which take up a huge amount of room. I’ve also had to bring my office chair home my back was in bits.

It’s not a post-covid solution, it takes up too much room, it’s causing too much disruption at home and there’s no where else to practically set it up.

Maybe I’m being ‘That Guy’ who won’t buy an EV in case they suddenly want to drive to Timbuktu, but I’ve looked at easy solutions but there’s no where to set up a desk in my house, when I wfh in the past it’s been my laptop on the table, but my back hurts, the screen hurts my eyes and trying to do my job single screen is hard.

Solutions range from a ‘summer house’ with power and rudimentary heating / security for £4k, a single story extension on the side of the house for £16k – £20k or convert the (Concrete pre-fab) garage for about £12k. I don’t have that sort of money in savings so it’s borrow it, or ask my Boss to pay for it.

When I used to consult on WFH for clients we always mentioned the old “move to the country and buy a Mansion for the price of your Suburban house” but now it’s not so theoretical, the boring practicalities of things like telling kids their moving schools, stamp duty and the fact ‘nice’ rural places aren’t that cheap, especially if they’re on the fibre grid have been brought home.

Folk working at home will still want to get out of the house during the day for a leg-stretch, some fresh air, a coffee. They’ll walk past small shops as they do so, maybe buying some food or a magazine. They might meet up with other homeworkers for a chat.

All of these “services” will just be transplanted from city centres to more suburban locations.

City centres will adapt, especially as they become more live-able, not being dedicated to large numbers of commuters. There could be more pedestrianisation as there’s no need to have roads dedicated to commuters. Many folk might choose to move back into the city centres to actually live without all the traffic, noise and pollution.

Can’t wait to get back into the office.

Missing out on so much helpful interactions /learning/sharing that comes from sharing an office space and overhearing conversations etc. You learn so much from other people just by being around them.

Also useful connections are formed with team members e.g. through going for lunch together.

I miss the gentle chat – like you can chat and do some easy work at the same time – I can’ type on teams text chat and work at the same time. So now you either work or chat not both at the same time.

Everything takes longer – even with my super fast virgin cable connection – uploading is slow and connecting to the office systems is bad. Sharing screens and going thru excel models is deathly bad for connections as well.

It is harder to ask juniors to pick up some small tasks as you can’t see them and see who is busy or not!

I miss the exercise of the commute.

I miss the social interaction.

I miss eating lunch that I haven’t had to make!

I work in a team of about 60 people, then we have smaller teams of 2-10 on multiple projects at any time. Our work is highly interdependent on each other.

Yes yes sharing screens and video conferencing works OK, but it is absolutely not as good as sitting next to someone and going through things.

And the ‘flexibility’ that can f right off – I don’t WANT you spending the afternoon riding you bike, only to email me at 11pm for something I’ve been waiting for all day… that needs to go to a client ASAP. Likewise I don’t want you sending me emails from 5.30am and wanting an immediate response from me because you need to get all your work done in the AM because you look after the kids in the PM. We ave core business hours for a practical reason.

I already had an OK home working set up – but to work full time at home I’d want a larger and more professional office set up. So where is that space going to come from? Who is going to pay for the screens and the chair etc? Not work that’s for sure they have made clear…

For some personality types, and for some jobs, WFH 100% is great. Not for me.

They might meet up with other homeworkers for a chat.

Can’t really talk about work with random other home workers! Most people have confidentiality issues.

Folk working at home will still want to get out of the house during the day for a leg-stretch, some fresh air, a coffee.

I’ve swapped my walk (from work) to the local coop to buy a sandwich to a walk (from home) to a different local coop to buy stuff to make sandwiches at home. If anything I’m probably spending slightly more making my own sandwiches…

I miss the exercise of the commute.

+1

Very much this!

Can’t really talk about work with random other home workers! Most people have confidentiality issues.

LOL. Why would you want to talk about work?

I miss the exercise of the commute.

So, go for a run or ride wherever else takes your fancy. Why be constrained?

Maybe it’s just a personality-type thing that some folk can’t imagine a different level of freedom and perhaps need a more defined lifestyle?

So, go for a run or ride wherever else takes your fancy. Why be constrained?

Maybe it’s just a personality-type thing that some folk can’t imagine a different level of freedom and perhaps need a more defined lifestyle?

It does seem crazy how much some people like the lack of freedom. I suppose you could get up at the same time, ride half way to work then ride home and start work. You will still get your commute in. Or you can do whatever exercise you fancy, whenever you fancy it (currently this is a little restricted, but it won’t be forever).

I’d consider all my colleagues to be my friends (not my best friends, and we may have disagreements).

Thats fine for now, and pre furlough, we could still get on and have virtual social interactions on teams, whatsapp etc.

If this is forever though, eventually there will be new colleagues, who we wont know from Adam. they wont be able to join the banter, and they’ll be second class citizens.

Eventually everyone will move jobs or retire so 40 years of being sat in your spare bedroom with no socialization will be the norm.

I’ve got my hobbies, close friends, family near by. (none of these under current lockdown, obviously). Some colleagues with kids have said that work is their only adult interaction most weeks. They would suffer hugely from this.

I miss the exercise of the commute.

So, go for a run or ride wherever else takes your fancy. Why be constrained?

Maybe it’s just a personality-type thing that some folk can’t imagine a different level of freedom and perhaps need a more defined lifestyle?

Everyone’s situation is different, I know when I was self-employed before I had kids I still ‘commuted’ I left my house, jumped on my bike and rode a 60 mins loop, I especially liked crossing the bridge over the busy road full of near static traffic.

I’ve been doing it for 8.5 years now. 3 days at home, 2 in the office. Absolutely love the WFH bit. The office bit sucks donkey balls.

The biggest problem is trying to schedule all the necessary face-face stuff for the limited office time, in combination with everyone else’s diaries and the screwed up train pricing system which very much limits when I can afford to travel.

I’m an antisocial sod at the best of times (social distancing is an awesome concept IMO), so I’m quite happy being sat at home on my own. Missing out on the office scuttlebutt can occasionally catch me out, but I’m very happy to exchange that for the ability to focus on what’s in front of me, without countless trivial interruptions. The big benefit is time efficiency. Its not so much about “skiving off for a ride” as being able to get all the daft domestic chores done (shopping, washing, cleaning) during the natural breaks in the working day or while waiting for info on tasks, that then mean your evenings are completely free. Equally, as it takes most of my lot a long time to get going in the morning (in at a very loose 9.00ish, coffee, chat, catch up with emails etc), nothing is usually happening to bother me before 10.00, so leave the house before 8.00, get 20-25 miles in on the roadie, swing past the coffee shop and the bakery for beans and bread on the way home, at my desk for 10.00, work until its all done.

We bought our house based on us both home working, so have an office each. I built my desk myself; using my grandfathers old mahogany office chair; plenty of room for a twin screen set up. I’m very reliant on having good IT support, as if that falls down, I can’t do anything productive. Over the last few years there’s been more of a move for all our project managers to be fully functional on the move, so they can be productive from coffee bars in between meetings, or at home out-of-hours, so we were all in a good place once the lockdown hit. The only problem being that the events industry is currently non-existent!

Again, I’m not sure anyone is saying working from home or in the office has to be a permanent every day of the week fixture? Why do we polarise every discussion on here to the extreme positions?

Some days I want to be in the office for meetings or general interaction, some days I want to work at home, some days it may suit me to do a bit of both.

And anyone who wants to go into the office for the exercise commute – that shows a lack of imagination – ride half way there and back before logging on at home?

Eventually everyone will move jobs or retire so 40 years of being sat in your spare bedroom with no socialization will be the norm.

Only if you choose to sit in your bedroom for 40 years

I myself will choose the rowing/running/cycling/open water swimming groups. Which I mostly used to miss pre coronavirus, that is until I started WFH.

I’ll also choose to go for lunch at the local cafe/pub. Catch up with all the other people carrying dog faeces in bags in the local parks. Grab a up of tea with the neighbour whilst he welds together his truck….again! Maybe even do a spot of gardening on my lunch break!

I‘ll also take the opportunity to do almost all of my food shopping on the local high street, particularly the greengrocers, but the fishmongers and butchers are there for you too. They need the business as much as any place near work!

The office bit sucks donkey balls.

😂

LOL. Why would you want to talk about work?

Why would I talk to some other random home workers full stop? I have actual real friends to talk about non-work stuff with 🙂 Speaking with colleagues over lunch/coffee is a key thing that is missing form the WFH environment for me. And of course we talk about work with colleagues, there is generally something interesting going on (obvs we like our work or we wouldn’t do it!).

So, go for a run or ride wherever else takes your fancy. Why be constrained?

Maybe it’s just a personality-type thing that some folk can’t imagine a different level of freedom and perhaps need a more defined lifestyle?

I am getting actual exercise sessions in every day, but in normal life I’ve fast-walked for a minimum of 40 mins a day as part of my commute to/from the tube station, or biked for 40-50 mins a day to/from the office – before I’ve even done my ‘real’ exercise sessions. Plus all the walking around the office, to/from meetings and up and down the stairs in a 14 floor block – it all adds up you don’t have to think about it or plan for it, and you’re being obtuse to not recognise that. I’ve really noticed how rubbish it is being so sedentary in a small house and only going out once a day for exercise.

I guess this sedentary WFH lifestyle is maybe more similar to many office workers ‘norm’, especially if people drive to work then just plonk at their desk every day?

Also its not like I’ve gained any extra time WFH – any savings in commute time has been more than eaten up by additional workload – see my earlier post about more projects, process taking longer, and missmatch in colleagues working hours sapping my own free time.

If this is forever though, eventually there will be new colleagues, who we wont know from Adam. they wont be able to join the banter, and they’ll be second class citizens.

I also think this is an important point.

It is easy enough now to have a friday social on Teanms, or to catch up with a coffee with a colleague virtually now – because we have pre-existing relationships forged though natural social interaction.

I am unsure how it would work with new people if most were to habitually WFH.

Obviously some people don’t give a shiny fig about social interaction with their team – but actually quite a lot of people seem to really care about team interaction and feeling like part of a community.

Again, I’m not sure anyone is saying working from home or in the office has to be a permanent every day of the week fixture? Why do we polarise every discussion on here to the extreme positions?

This is a key point. My organisation (one of the big IT consultancies) has a formal policy of “work where you need to work”[1].

We’re either at home, in one of our offices, on a client site, or anywhere in between and nobody cares as long as the work is delivered and the client is happy with it. As a result, 270,000 people upped sticks and moved home a few weeks ago, and when this finishes they’ll all go back to where they need to be in order to deliver their best work. For some this will be home, for others on-site, for others the office and it’ll vary from day to day. There is rightly no one-size-fits-all.

[1] And “wear what you need to wear” as well, which is nice.

Surely the point is that hopefully many more people will be able to work from home a few days a week if it suits them. Those who have to commute will then benefit from reduced commuting traffic / less crammed trains.
I’ve worked from home for 7 years, 2.5 as an employee, 2 as a one man band, and 4 as a 2 man band. Prior to that my commute was 1hr each, and prior to that I could walk or ride into the city centre office. Each has their advantage that suited me a different times of my life.
After 4 years of meeting in person a few times a month a using Google hangouts as a virtual of by business partner and I finally decided we needed to get a shared office if we were to progress the business. In a case of epically bad timing we moved in to the office 2 weeks before lockdown!

Obviously some people don’t give a shiny fig about social interaction with their team

*Puts hand up*

I couldn’t give a stuff about interacting with my colleagues. The vast majority of them are shallow attention seeking idiots or corporate clones who continually use phrases such as ‘reaching out’, ‘resonating’ and ‘engaging’. WFH allows me to avoid all these people and the inane banter (I really don’t care what you did at the weekend!) and just get the bloody work done in the least possible time. I also save £20-30 a day which I would have spent on train fares, coffees, lunches, snacks etc. It’s like getting a £500 a month pay rise for not having to be surrounded by idiots all day.

LOL. Why would you want to talk about work?

Must be me then, but I spend a lot of my non work time thinking about work, working through problems. In fact, most problems get solved when I’m not at work; I find mulling ideas over is far more productive than actively thinking about them…

Surely the point is that hopefully many more people will be able to work from home a few days a week if it suits them. Those who have to commute will then benefit from reduced commuting traffic / less crammed trains.

This, I suspect work will become more flexible rather than everyone just staying WFH.

I know from my own experience of the last 2 months, the committed consumers in my life (my Wife and Mum mostly) have found whole new ways to exchange money for crap.

This made me laugh although my spender seems to have calmed down for the moment.

WFH is extremely difficult for single parents, especially without any available childcare. I wonder if this shift in working practices will mean that less women work in positions and industries where WFH will become the norm.

WFH is extremely difficult for single parents, especially without any available childcare.

How did they manage when they were told to be at an office?

WFH is extremely difficult for single parents, especially without any available childcare.

How did they manage when they were told to be at an office?

Agreed.

I lot of us are moaning about trying to work with kids at home, but it’s doable, it’s certainly more doable than taking sub school age kids to a normal workplace.

Obviously some people don’t give a shiny fig about social interaction with their team

Me

Nor do I think about work outside of work. Work is work, home is home and I never mix the two

corporate clones who continually use phrases such as ‘reaching out’, ‘resonating’ and ‘engaging’.

I find this harder to deal with at home.

In the office I can switch on my glazed look, remembering to nod gently every 20 seconds or so while looking out the window and thinking about more interesting things as that sort of “we are pivoting to engaging in that space” BS is in it’s natural environment.

At home it’s jarring, hearing assholes coming out with that sort of guff in my house.

When people were required to attend their place of work grandparents helped out, schools were open, and wrap around care was available, it’s not now unless you are a key worker. This leaves the primary carer (mainly women) at a disadvantage as they are trying to balance work with the additional responsibilities of care and education.

I think people are taking a longer view than just during the current pandemic.

All those support mechanisms will return.

In the office I can switch on my glazed look

Switch Teams microphone to mute

Ensure sufficient tilt on laptop screen, and therefore camera

Grab iPad

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