Would these carriages be locked at both ends to prevent male passengers accessing them en route or would they be tagged onto the end of an existing train with access only via the back door?

They will be like womens toilets in pubs and you have to go with a friend

True, but taking a moment to reflect.

The proposed strategy of ever increasing deployment of growing numbers of CCTV, officers, etc, seems like a slightly unfortunate direction to be forced into.

Hasn’t an effort to get society to alter of it’s own accord, got a place in the ranking of desirable solutions?
Of course and not only has it a place, it’s likely the ideal solution. Where no matter how pissed up or frustrated a Man may be, that he’d never think to stoop so low.

Social stigmatism of such behaviour, just as we seem to have managed with drink driving, is a worthy goal?

Very true, but how many times does drink driving actually have a victim? People still drink drive, you will always have that one idiot that even after all the awareness training will still go and get in his car smashed.

My unit has discharged a few repeat offenders due to drink driving, that’s even after being punished by both the civilian and military justice system. Some people just don’t learn or care no matter the ‘stigma’.

As a sidebar, having sex with children carries a fairly hefty stigma, those offences are still on the rise. Repeat offences have increased.

Effective policing is part of the solution, you can’t do that if there are no officers to be seen. Having cops on stations and trains would definitely provide deterrent and reassurance.

Last year Transport Minister Claire Perry told the Conservative party conference she was open to the idea of bringing them back to the wider rail network to reduce sex attacks.

I wonder if there were gasps of horror from her audience when she made the announcement.

I certainly don’t remember the media going into overdrive over it.

And last year’s Conservative Party Conference was less than 12 months ago so I think I would have remembered.

Effective policing is part of the solution, you can’t do that if there are no officers to be seen. Having cops on stations and trains would definitely provide deterrent and reassurance.

Fair enough, yes, we might not, sadly, be able to achieve blanket compliance through social stigmatization alone. So yes there will likely always, unfortunately, be a need for some police presence.

Which would bring us back to matters of cost. Which reminds me of the bbc article posted by Cougar where it reports that people complained of the Womens only carriages not being used or under subscribed.

So to the point about increased cost of additional policing. I say it’s a price well worth paying.

Proof that my solution to the problem has already been thought of.. Queensland, Aus.

I’d agree with most of this, Cougars post back on pg 3.

Cougar – Moderator
Here’s the thing.

The sad truth is that some men are a bit rapey. Some women are a bit vulnerable. Put the two together and it’s probably not going to end favourably for the lady. It would be a very, very poor state of affairs if politicians – nay, if everyone – didn’t support the concept of investigating ideas as to how we can improve that. The linked article states (rightly or wrongly, I don’t know) that “43 per cent of women aged between 18 and 34-years-old living in London had experienced sexual harassment in public spaces.” That’s a terrifying and depressing statistic.

Segregation is not the answer, you need to attack the problem at source. Education is the answer. Convictions are the answer. Making this sort of behaviour socially unacceptable is the answer. However, some of “the answers” are somewhat difficult to achieve, so I can see why something like this proposal might be being considered.

It’s also worth bearing in mind that at this stage it’s just an idea. There’s a tremendous gulf between “election candidate has made a suggestion” and implemented policy, despite what a Daily Mail headline might have you believe. Essentially, this is how debate is sparked (just as on STW) and “is this a good idea?” – “no” – “all right then, next order of business, Homeopathy in the NHS…”

But, I do have an issue with:

some men are a bit rapey

Surely a man is a rapist or he isn’t? Either he has non-consensual sex with a woman or he doesn’t? For me the phrase “some men are a bit rapey” almost suggests that it’s not as serious a crime as it is. Sure that’s not the intention, but it comes across as flippant.

[/quote]

For me the phrase “some men are a bit rapey” almost suggests that it’s not as serious a crime as it is. Sure that’s not the intention, but it comes across as flippant.
This +1

More police doesn’t reduce crime, forces been have cut back as crime rates have fallen. I think the proposal is futile and it won’t protect anyone on the platform. Northampton council introduced single sex swimming and saunas to appease/appeal to ethnic minorities. This opportunity was quickly taken up by sexual orientation minorities, which was even more offensive to the ethnic minorities. Pretty quickly it all went back to mixed sessions. Isolating women doesn’t protect them it oppresses them. Look at countries that ‘protect’ in this way like Saudi and India, misogynistic cultures where it’s horrible to be a woman. How would women be seen who were in the mixed carriage? Asking for it?
I think people are safer in mixed crowds, even if that might not be such a vote puller. Women should not be isolated and punished for being women.
Btw the last time I looked offences against children, like murder, are fairly constant, they are not increasing

I don’t claim to be speaking for all women, and I haven’t had “a cursory glance on the internet” so this isn’t a well researched and peer-reviewed thesis.

I went on plenty of Women Reclaim the Night Marches in the 1980s and 90s – the idea behind that movement was that women shouldn’t have to feel afraid in public spaces, and the way to stop that happening was for women to be around in public spaces at night, not hide as home due to fear.

Those of you who say you won’t let your daughters go out at night are contributing to the problem, sorry. Please don’t make them feel afraid just because they are women !! Its just not fair.

So on behalf of this woman, this is a REALLY BAD IDEA.

s – Member
I don’t claim to be speaking for all women, and I haven’t had “a cursory glance on the internet” so this isn’t a well researched and peer-reviewed thesis.
I went on plenty of Women Reclaim the Night Marches in the 1980s and 90s – the idea behind that movement was that women shouldn’t have to feel afraid in public spaces, and the way to stop that happening was for women to be around in public spaces at night, not hide as home due to fear.

It’s almost as if there being lots of women all together in one place inspired confidence for others to go out too. Can’t think where there might have been a discussion on that basis.

For me the phrase “some men are a bit rapey” almost suggests that it’s not as serious a crime as it is. Sure that’s not the intention, but it comes across as flippant.

It was flippant, but not for the reason you suggest. I didn’t intend to suggest that it wasn’t a serious crime, rather quite the opposite; I have a tendency to use an “amusing” (arguably) turn of phrase to try and make serious subjects easier to talk about. Sorry if that came across as insincere, it’s just my writing style I’m afraid.

hels – Member

I went on plenty of Women Reclaim the Night Marches in the 1980s and 90s – the idea behind that movement was that women shouldn’t have to feel afraid in public spaces, and the way to stop that happening was for women to be around in public spaces at night, not hide as home due to fear.

Sincere applause!

More police doesn’t reduce crime, forces been have cut back as crime rates have fallen.

Have crime rates fallen, or have crime rate figures fallen? Not necessarily the same thing. (Cf. hospital waiting lists.)

dn’t intend to suggest that it wasn’t a serious crime, rather quite the opposite; I have a tendency to use an “amusing” (arguably) turn of phrase to try and make serious subjects easier to talk about. Sorry if that came across as insincere, it’s just my writing style I’m afraid.

I wasn’t looking to cause offence or cast any aspersions either. From your posts I wouldn’t have thought there was any intent to be flippant on that subject. We do need to talk about rape and sex crime in general and I very much understand your desire to make it easier. Too often it is still brushed under the carpet and victims still feel at fault and feel shame. It’s got to be brought out into the light.

Have crime rates fallen, or have crime rate figures fallen? Not necessarily the same thing. (Cf. hospital waiting lists.)

Yes, the National Crime Survey is a very good at showing trends because it is based on public experience of crime rather the police figures.

When a teenager sitting on a crowded bus, a young male adult next to me started stroking my hair. Nobody intervened. I reacted in a gobby manner whilst feeling terrified.

😐

hels – Member
this is a REALLY BAD IDEA

Which was the general consensus during the article broadcast on this morning’s radio 4, today program.

As far as I could tell, the women were all saying it wasn’t what they felt they wanted nor would it address the real issue.

There was some sloppy reporting about this being Corbin’s idea, etc.

I expect the iplayer will have this morning’s episode for listening to. IIRC (I was on the M1 at the time) the article was broadcast between 8 and 9am (the last 1/3 of the program).

Most crimes are reported by victims, therefore variations are significant. How they are recorded may change periodically but I doubt to the extent that they would give the appearance of a major fall or increase. With the introduction of specially trained officers to deal with the victims of rape, reporting went up and this was in a context of overall falling crime rates in the developed world (I think Belgium is/was an exception). The responsibility for the massive fall in crime rates in NYC has been claimed by both left and right, an interesting debate.