Enough is enough basically. Plenty of other trails to ride. Stick to Hurtwood & Nat Trust open access areas round SH generally. Respect the land owners, the trails, and other users.

From FB:
——–
Pedal&Spoke were invited to a meeting with the Winterfold Landowner. You may have noticed that many of the Winterfold trails have started to be closed down. The attached picture shows action caused by a small minority of MTB riders who blocked his private driveway. The landowner and his family have also been subject to verbal abuse therefore he has felt it necessary to protect his family and land by reducing MTB traffic. He is not against MTB but with the increased vandalism and rudeness towards his family from riders they feel enough is enough.

Can we please ask that you keep away from the main area of Winterfold and in doing so we may be able to keep the trails in the surrounding areas open. The landowner owns much of the areas surrounding Winterfold and we hope by reducing the traffic on Winterfold Estate we will maintain a good relationship with him and be able to continue to use the wider areas. The following trails will be closed:Switch Backs, 3 Amigos part 2/3, Twix/Drag Queen and All in One. We are hoping that we can re route Evian to the left as the bottom section will be closed and also 3 Amigos part 1 needs to be re routed. Please do not attempt to reroute a closed entrance or climb over any blockage put there.

If you find yourself on Winterfold Estates private road or a Public Footpath please make every effort to find alternative routes away from the area. Please can you share this with as many groups as you know and pin to the top of your pages.

Why don’t they just put a big ol’ fence up?

Never knew any of it was private land, thought it was some big national park or something ooops. I live in Wales now anyway, but the point I’m trying to make is it was unclear to me where one plot of land ends and the other begins.

D*ckheads. Gives all of us a bad rep.

Thanks for that DK.. have shared and steered cleared of Winterfold for the time being.

Jack – Lots of small signs posted around the private drive. Folks have just chosen to ignore it. Plus where the trees have been dumped on the above pic is just off a Public Footpath… doesn’t help that riders choose to ignore the original intention of that recently built trail (i.e. climb back around the switchback avoiding coming down on to the road) but instead found the easiest solution.

Why don’t they just put a big ol’ fence up?

Cost?
the knowledge they can’t patrol it and prevent breaches?
an apparently misplaced belief that other people will behave responsibility if you treat them like grown ups?

All things considered, we (mtbers) have got off lightly there. Shame about switchbacks as I still have to master two of the corners and Evian. Rather than reroute, perhaps that should simply be left alone for some time now.

I will have to learn to master Eric instead!!!

Thanks for the post DK. Hope people, respond sensibly

I mostly ride on my own over there, is there any actual map or anything of where we can/can’t ride?? It seems like even the areas we can ride are a bit of a “grey area” so no-one likes publishing anything which makes navigating around the real no go areas very tricky.

Will do. There is no need for idiots to put trees over his driveway. I was originally annoyed at the tracks being blocked but after a lengthy thread some weeks back I can understand Jim’s POV. Lets not let a few trails closing ruin the access we have for all the others.

Horatio stick to Pitch / Holmbury and the South Side of Reynards.. plenty of riding to be had.

Just leave Winterfold be for the time being till some agreement is reached by possibly P&S and JMcA

Oh right, I haven’t been down there for yonks. Hmmmm sounds like nobbers being nobbers to me, there are loads of other trails in them there hills.

I’m not 100% certain on the ownership but I believe the red area is the main Winterfold Estate that’s of concern and should keep out of. End of Evian dumps into this, Switchbacks, Twix, 3 Amigos 2/3, SS even are all in this area.

South of that is Hurtwood land.

However it’s important to note that while the new Hurtwood land owners (inc Jim) are keeping to the open access agreement, they won’t tolerate idiots and uncontrolled digging (any digging there without permission is actually illegal, even if overlooked in the past). Of all the SH, only Summer Lightning, Yoghurt Pots & BKB are accepted & funded trails (sort of official, or at least accepted by land owners. SL being the only one with sign posts).

Grey shaded areas are Hurtwood land.

The attached picture shows action caused by a small minority of MTB riders who blocked his private driveway

I don’t know the area so this might well be a stupid question, but how does anyone know this? All I can see is a pile of branches on a track – in the absence of people in bike gear bearing cheeky grins, who decided it was done by mountain bikers, and on what evidence did they reach that conclusion?

What a shame.

I don’t know the area either, but it seems to be well loved and well ridden.
I may be wrong, but it seems from previous threads that the land owner has been extremely accomodating in the past, which makes it even sadder.

I honestly know very little of the demographics down there, scale, opportunity for riding, density/type of trail use etc.

I presume the official ‘bridlepaths’ etc that are marked on the maps and run through the estate are still ok to use?

Rights of ways are fine

I honestly know very little of the demographics down there, scale, opportunity for riding, density/type of trail use etc.

Scale of riding around Peaslake area is huge. Typical weekend will see car parks overflowing.

Stats back in 2011 found that 700 people were riding BKB in a day, and it’s a lot busier now than it was then.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130210203052/http://www.friendsofthehurtwood.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=167:amazing-hurtwood-mountain-bike-statistics&catid=23:news&Itemid=269

Typically a lot of people rocking an enduro look and riding similar bikes, but wide variety really as there’s something for everyone.

Very dense with trails, although concentrated particularly around Pitch and Winterfold.

Thanks for the post DK. Hope people, respond sensibly

you have two hopes and Bob is dead

I presume the official ‘bridlepaths’ etc that are marked on the maps and run through the estate are still ok to use?

if they are on the definitive map and not subject to a closure or other restrictive order they are open

What’s the situation with Leith Hill, Redlands area, Ranmore Common and the area around Mickleham and Box Hill?

The access issues in this area are a long time brew, going back to 1929 when the Bray estate took the very open-minded decision to open up access to its land over and above what the Right to Roam bill provided. This led to the creation of the Hurtwood Control, with all the rather amazing freedoms we and other recreational users enjoy in that area.

One of the catches is that this activity (and also some rather unfettered and enthusiastic building) has always spilled over into neighbouring areas that aren’t under HC management.

The amount of trailbuilding / use has also put a great deal of pressure on the Control itself: it has a remit to allow *all* kinds of use (horses, pedestrians, even for a while husky sled racing) and is obliged to act when one typen of user starts to impede the enjoyment of other users. It also has suffered from a funding crunch as local authority spend and central government support has dried up.

I’ve been involved on and off (quite lately, due to parenthood, off) with some of this stuff since about 2000m, and I’ve ridden in the area for longer than that. Ther have alwauys eben problems, frustrations, reconciliations and advances over the years. Often it’s come down to things that a small group of riders have done, and a resulting lack of communication between users, managers and owners. The way to keep trails open is twofold: responsible use (all of us) and good communications (as many of us as can be involved).

This is probably preaching to the choir, but please, everybody, respect the wishes of landowners. They own the land we enjoy riding on, and aside from Rights of Way, their good humour, tolerance and relationships wih their insurance agents is all that allows us to keep riding the less recognised stuff. Charlie’s first rule, and all that.

What’s the situation with Leith Hill, Redlands area, Ranmore Common and the area around Mickleham and Box Hill?

Leith is still good, Redlands and Ranmore have had some recent closure from what I heard but it is 2nd hand news so could be wrong

Like others say above, it looks like we’ve got off lightly here. Unfortunately the dickheads won’t abide by the “new agreement” and will no doubt antagonise Jim as much as before.

What’s the situation with Leith Hill, Redlands area, Ranmore Common and the area around Mickleham and Box Hill?

All fine from what I know, other than Redlands which is still off limits. Bit of logging happening in a few parts, resulting in the odd trail, eg Waggledance / Regurgitator being a no go. They’re rideable, but you might well upset peeps in the vicinity.

Ranmore

Really, which part? Abba Zabba and surrounding area?

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

You build up impressions of places from posts, but it’s nice to have some context.

I’ve been up Snowdon and to Lichtenstein more often than I’ve visited Surrey, but the riding sounds fun.

We’re used to hardly seeing anyone out on the trails apart from a few honeytraps and at trail centres.

Good luck.
🙂

SM – don’t go by what I said on Ranmore it was 2nd hand news passed down.

Redlands, Ranmore, Mickleham are all sensitive. Redlands in particular is out of bounds and signs go out every now and again saying to keep to rights of way. Ranmore has had similar about illegal digging not being tolerated. Mickleham has Stick Man 😉

Even Wolvens Lane after Summer Lightning has issues as technically you shouldn’t be on the “ancient” bank. Though it’s impossible to ride the lane especially when wet. Hence moves to try to direct people after SL back towards the tower.

I don’t know the area so this might well be a stupid question, but how does anyone know this? All I can see is a pile of branches on a track – in the absence of people in bike gear bearing cheeky grins, who decided it was done by mountain bikers, and on what evidence did they reach that conclusion?

Given the verbal abuse he’s sustained from some MTBers who have decided that he HAS to allow them onto his land then it’s a logical assumption. Of course it could be local anti-MTB people running a false flag operation to get him to ban people from his land who are already banned from his land.

Basically it’s the only rational conclusion as to who put that there.

I’m concerned this will just shift the problem and we will see a spate of new trail features going up on the other more accessible hills. Some people just have to have things their way I suppose.

Redlands, Ranmore, Mickleham are all sensitive. Redlands in particular is out of bounds

and signs go out every now and again saying to keep to rights of way.

That actually applies to pretty much all of England. The Hurtwood is very unusual in being ‘open access’:

As The Hurtwood allows public access by a Deed of Dedication, this supersedes any current legislation on public ROW. This effectively means everyone is allowed everywhere unless we specifically deny it; which we have done on particular paths near the villages.

Anywhere else, legally, you should be keeping to rights of way – a bit of privately owned woodland is no different to a farmer’s field. National Trust land is owned by the NT who tend to be very tight about access.
http://www.ramblers.org.uk/advice/rights-of-way-law-in-england-and-wales/basics-of-rights-of-way-law.aspx

Likewise digging in someone’s wood in which you’re (in theory) trespassing, is legally no different to digging in your neighbour’s front garden.

Whether a lot of ‘unofficial’ trails actually do any harm, and whether a bit of time with a spade to improve drainage and stop erosion from water run off is a positive impact or negative is another matter. For all the fuss about the banks on Wolvens Lane one idiot in a 4×4 will do more damage than 20 years of people riding a bike up it – there are a couple of sections which have just been destroyed.

Rusty – the SH are my main MTB area – along with the Lakes. We are very fortunate to have such incrediible riding accessible to us all. The variety in such a small area is remarkable and it is easy to combine days out with a very large variety of riding in it. I am always amazed when people talk about large number of cyclists. In all the years I have cycled there, the overwhelming impression I get is, where the hell is everyone? Yes some CPs are full but once you are out on the trails I am often riding all alone – at times this is dsconcerting eg, on more challenging and hidden tough routes/features.

The one thing I have noticed in more recent times has been the increase in gap jumps in the middle of well-known trails. Perhaps it started with the one on Super Nova and then spread to Captian Clunk, Evian wtc (not in chronological order). The was always IMO going to end in tears in both senses and it seems this is the case, Plus the sense of entitlement among some riders to do as they please without thinking of the consequences – one owner of another bike shop shocked me on first meeting by his desire and encouragement to test the boundaries on access as much as possible.

The results are clear….

We have been very lucky to ride such a great area, some have pushed that luck too far, let’s hope not irrevocably so….

Ranmore has been pretty much untouched until a few years ago and now there are loads of trails appearing. Not a big problem, but some of the trails extend onto footpaths around Polesden Lacey which really isn’t good.

Ok for Night riders, but anyone blasting down some of these trails at weekends is going to encounter some NT Walkers/children exploring the local footpaths.

Should probably get this clearly posted up in all the car parks as not everyone who visits will be on this forum.

I heard about this a while back, what a bunch of idiots for doing that, you don’t poke the bear. The crap he has had to put up with over the years i’m surprised there aren’t automated machine gun turrets in the woods. 😆

Seriously though, there is no need to do any more digging up there. there are a lot of self entitled idiots who think they have all the rights to do what they want up there and it really winds me up. Some of them who should know a lot better..

Just enjoy what is there.

I may be wrong, but it seems from previous threads that the land owner has been extremely accomodating in the past, which makes it even sadder.

no, he’s always hated MTB’ers, i along with others were run-off a fireroad by him in his Range Rover back in early 2000’s, then got out with his shotgun and got a tad shitty with us.

Nonetheless, can’t condone trees over his private road, that’s just going to agrivate him. Also MBR/MBUK/PB have got a lot to say for this, they are the most arrogant pricks i’ve met and always up for an argument, i’ll put my bets on it’s them that have caused most of the agro.

Redlands in particular is out of bounds

When I lived in the UK I got asked to leave Redlands a couple of times when riding there. Both times I apologised and was polite and got out of there as it’s not worth the hassle of any aggro when you know you’re out of bounds.

I’ve had a similar thing Sui, finger jabbing in my face, while hes holding a shotgun. He doesn’t deserve a lot of the shit he’s given (abuse and trees felled on his drive) but he doesn’t do himself any favours.
What’s worrying is the rumours he’s bought quite a lot more land around the area.

He doesn’t hate bikers, far from it, what he hates is people effectively riding in and treating his back garden as theirs, can’t say i blame him. the fact they are on 2 wheels is irrelevant.
He’s always been pleasant when i’ve met him, but i’m not the sort of person to get angry for being told i shouldn’t be there and i’ve always been on Bridleways (when we’ve crossed paths), NOT fire roads, which are not Bridleways…

I’ve never encountered the man but surely if he was holding a shotgun in his hand while being aggressive why wasn’t it reported to the police?

jayouz – Member
I’ve never encountered the man but surely if he was holding a shotgun in his hand while being aggressive why wasn’t it reported to the police?

cos its the countryside, people have gun. He was just a **** to get out of the car holding it whilst having a winge. not really worth calling rozzers over, after-all we were on his land.

If you were on his land or not it doesn’t matter, threatening with a firearm is illegal if someone had actually reported it the first time the chances are he wouldn’t have a gun permit anymore so wouldn’t have been able to repeat it.

If someone was on my land and I pulled a gun I’d expect to be arrested for it.

Leith is still good, Redlands and Ranmore have had some recent closure from what I heard but it is 2nd hand news so could be wrong

You are right re Ranmore…with more closures to come. North side of Ranmore Common Road though…those trails that are in SSSI. Those on south side of road ok for now.

He can claim he has a legitimate use for the gun, and it’s your word against his. He is a rich man, (I’m not) and has expensive lawyers. Funnily enough, he was a lot more polite and nice when I met him, and he had the hurtwood ranger guy with him 😀
I do add, i am always nice and polite to him, he’s not worth arguing with.

“Pulled a gun” 🙄

I hope people are sensible and stay clear for a good while until things calm down. I first started riding there 15 years ago, it is so so much busier now and apps like Strava mean the “secret knowledge” or hours spent exploring can be short circuited and this increases traffic. The extent of the building and the types of more jumpy trail features just add to the problem.

Whilst quite a bit of the area is open access a large amount is not, idiots jist chise to interpret the whole area as their public access playground.

The trees accross his drive appeared shortly after he blocked off some trails on his land. Does not take a genius to work out it was idiotic MTBers who did that.