Aside from all the issues mentioned above, one of the biggest problems with wind turbines (and solar) is that they don't really reduce our requirement for 'traditional' power stations. We still need to be able to produce the same amount of electricity when there's no wind so we'll end up with lots of power stations that will keep being turned on and off all the time which makes them much less efficient and more prone to breaking down. It's similar to the current issue we have with peak demand periods but at least they are fairly predictable.

Sadly the government just seems to be worried about its media perception and so has jumped on the things that the general public know about – wind and solar – whether or not they are the best solution is irrelevant. It would be far better spending it on getting people to reduce their energy needs – to me this seems easier to achieve, 'using and wasting less electricity will save you money' can't be too hard to get across? And what about more efficient energy production like the combined heat and power waste incinerator in Sheffield that is at least 30% more efficient than standard power stations.

Wind turbines might be part of the jigsaw but it's a far far smaller piece than is being sold to us by the government and the media.

ooOOoo, it's worse than even that – all the losses in extracting, refining and delivering the fuel to the forecourt.

"We still need to be able to produce the same amount of electricity when there's no wind so we'll end up with lots of power stations that will keep being turned on and off all the time which makes them much less efficient and more prone to breaking down."

It's been estimated that wwe can achieve 20% of total electricity demand without significant investment in extra back-up. Power stations are kept in "spinning reserve" so they're not turned on and off as such.

It's been estimated that wwe can achieve 20% of total electricity demand without significant investment in extra back-up. Power stations are kept in "spinning reserve" so they're not turned on and off as such.

Well some much cleverer people than me are pretty concerned. See report here.

Also don't forget the costs of the electricty, you'll still be paying for the building and maintenance of those power stations that are there waiting for the wind to drop in your electric bill. Add that to the cost of the wind turbines that you'll be paying for and you'll have some very expensive electricty. Thinking about it that might be a good way of reducing peoples energy usage?

Secondly have you thought how many turbines will be required to produce 20% of our energy requirements? Whitelee Wind Farm near Glasgow which is brand new has 140 turbines and has been realistically estimated to produce enough energy for 35,000 homes. I reckon that would mean that we will need getting on for 100,000 across the country! I hope you like the look of them.

Jeez ransos you are right there. Imagine the inefficiencies when we have 3 ton SUVs running from tar sands!

Did someone mention subsidies for wind power?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/oct/19/nuclear-tax-on-power-bills

and what's the hidden carbon cost of constructing a nuclear power plant, plus extraction, transport, enrichment of uranium, storage of waste and decommissioning old plants?

coffeking i'm a simplified sort of a bloke the simpler the better for me
ransos theres shitloads of evidence about as to how bad concrete is the point was that dont kid yourself their clean as clean cos their not g

mjb just read youre posts thro again wellsaid!!

"ransos theres shitloads of evidence about as to how bad concrete is the point was that dont kid yourself their clean as clean cos their not"

I'm well aware of the environmental impact of concrete. In case you hadn't noticed, it's also required for nuclear power stations, coal power stations, tidal barrages…

But that wasn't your point. Do you have any evidence that the carbon impact of constructing wind turbines is never paid off?

However we end up producing our electricity in the future it is going to cost us more in electricity bills or taxes (or probably both).

Off Shore Wind Turbine Taxes

Just another reason why in the short term, money would be better spent getting people to reduce their usage and waste, whilst making current generating methods more efficient.

mjb, these people don't seem to think that intermittency is a huge problem for wind power, in terms of carbon or cost:

http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/electricalengineering/newsarchive/intermittencyreport

Of course, the more we do to reduce demand, the fewer wind turbines we will need.

Distributed small scale generation.

If people are generating their own power they're more likely to manage their consumption more effieciently.

Actually a good way of reducing global carbon emissions would be to shoot an American (actually that's a bit harsh, maybe just sterilise them) as they produce twice as much CO2 per person as Europeans 😀

If people are generating their own power they're more likely to manage their consumption more effieciently.

+1

dave +2
ramsos came from someone much better read and intelligent htan me but no i wont waste time searching for evidence to support a discussion on a bike forum suffice to say i beleive it to be true but if you think how little they contribute to the national grid (working on 20% being the governments target figure and in my mind very unlikely to be hit) it would seem to be beleivable also non of the things you mentioned profess to being green alternatives g

grumm – really agree that the best approach is to reduce power use not to simply produce more but do you really believe there is any chance of that happening?

Once electricity gets really expensive yeah.

Distributed small scale generation.

If people are generating their own power they're more likely to manage their consumption more effieciently.

I agree but sadly the government is again pushing the solar and wind options which have even greater problems than their larger scale counterparts. An even cheaper option would be to give everybody one of those little clip on meters for christmas and tell them to wander round the house and turn things on and off to see what affect they have on their energy consumption.

Here's an interesting article on Germany's renewable energy programme (which the UK is using as a role model)

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,606763,00.html

The section at the end says it all…

"When reduction of CO2 emissions is more cheaply achieved through insulating a building than using a wind turbine, that is where we should concentrate our support." When it comes to climate change, everything else is secondary to reducing CO2 emissions.

Bring on the "climate global change warming" we don't deserve the earth. The only sad thing about the end of the human race is the other creatures we are taking out along the way.
Keep building the wind turbines as it makes the terminally selfish believe that we are doing something so they can carry on just the way they are. Can you imagine what the future is going to be like?

Call me cynical but no government out there is going to do enough in the short term to change our lifestyles significantly enough to even make a dent in global warming. if they try they'll be lynched. Low lying areas are going to flood, temperatures will rise and the weather will get more chaotic.

The big question is whether we want to make things worse by having loads of wars over energy security at the same time. Be green if you want, it's a good moral standpoint, but it won't make a jot of difference to the planet.

btw, the Scout Moor windfarm has now been repaired, there was an issue with (lack of) oil in the gearboxes, which have had to be replaced on a number of turbines.

I just about see 4 of them from our house and I think they're an amazing site. Yes,they're not 'THE' solution, but they are a source of renewable energy.

And, as Mark said, they are amazing when you ride directly under the blades when they're spinning at full tilt!

On scout moor they provide easier access to a wider area of the moors, for the damn Motorcross bikes who distroy all they touch.

I agree, they are making a mess!

We need thinking like this;

Why are out power needs every increasing? Because we are all massively wasteful. We make more effort than most in this house but I bet there is still a lot of waste.

a lot more than we need wind turbines (I actually agree with grumm on something :D)