+1 Spongebob.

If paid parking is a problem, how come all the car parks round here are full? If they were free they'd still be full, but with cars belonging to the people who work in the town centre.

I'd love it if the Council announced they were going to make all their car parks free for a week; there'd be mass calls to charge again. Same if they announced a week long free for all on parking.

I also believe that studies have show that those arriving on public transport spend more than those arriving by car.

If we had some intelligent thinking

Indeed spongebob, you're posting on here to get some intelligent thinking done for you?

No. Social housing effectively immobilises a fair proportion of the population.

No. The high price of housing in the private sector does that.

The simple fact is when you allow out of town shopping centres to be built and actively encourage car ownership, the result is some town centres die. You also have to factor in the type of employment in that particular area. As an example, I travel through a number of towns in the south where niche shops can be supported by the population due to the customers wealth, so these shops including high street butchers, greengrocers etc, can live side by side with the supermarkets. (The super markets have spotted this and are now plastering the high streets with metro stores)

But other towns in parts of the country where industry has been closed down or jobs are scarce thus depriving customers of wealth, cannot support such shops and the supermarkets take over.

But why bother going to the high street when you can get your weekly shop from a supermarket which sells nearly everything and as you drive out, fill your car up with petrol from the supermarkets own petrol station?

The money you spend casts a vote for the world you want to live in. Dunno who said that.

El-bent, I bother to shop locally because the fruit and veg is fresh and if I want a ripe pear, I don't have to wait 3 weeks. The butcher knows me by name. The guy in the paint shop once drove my purchase's up to our house, 'cos we live at the top of a hill, all these things make a difference.

Our village has a fantastic scheme, whereby the local shopper can get a card stamped by the shop owner, when the card is full you pop it into a box and every month there is a £100 cash prize draw. To complete the card you need to visit at least 8 different shops, with the card holder shop giving a free stamp on collection of card.

The shops have also been giving away free shopper bags and will be holding a food and drink festival this weekend.

clareymorris – I agree with you.

I was disappointed in Kendal last week to find only one butcher and fruit/veg shop. Luckily there were some decent one's in Ambleside.

It's such a shame we've moved away from the continental Euro approach to shopping and to hateful Yank habits.

Just been to Majorca – everyone buys bread from a bakery, etc. Over here we have killed too many towns for the sake of "convenience" and sh1te tasting food.

Some of us probably work in town centres and can do lots of little top-up shops at the local butcher/bakers/candlestick makers because it is convenient. For the rest of us it is convenient to stop at a big supermarket on the way home from work and do a "big shop". For that we need a car and easy parking.

We all like convenience, but for many of us town centre shopping – and the ludicrously out-dated opening times – is simply too inconvenient no matter how good the pears taste.

Holyhead has been dying for years really despite attempts to get people to go there such as a big metal bridge from the port over the busy road. From what I can see the centre is becoming more residential – nothing worse than boarded up shops.

I bother to shop locally because the fruit and veg is fresh and if I want a ripe pear, I don't have to wait 3 weeks.

A lot of people can't be bothered though. A huge social revolution swept through this country in the 80's that changed how we do a lot of things, one of those thing was how we work and how much we work. Everything else we do has to be shoe horned in around that and since time is now off the essence to people, Supermarkets offer that one shop stop convenience.

We can lament the passing of some high streets and some of the old high street names, but our lack of effort in believing that some things are worth saving has caused this and continues to this day.(you can also blame internet shopping as well.)

Did anyone see that telly programme a couple of weeks ago about food wastage?
The farmers were getting rid of thousands of perfectly good lettuce because they weren't the correct shape for the supermarkets. The eggs were too small because the British housewife has been brainwashed into buying eggs which are brown, perfectly oval and large. The strawberries had to be 2.5 – 3 c.m in diametre. the worlds gone mad.

When all the oil's run out and we only have bicycles, we'll all lament the loss of the butcher, baker and fruit shop.

Mimi rant over.

Mimi rant over.

I agree with you, Mimi.

I didn't bother reading after the predictable Daily Fail style start.

I'm amazed at your psychic ability to be able to quote what he wrote in his last paragraph in that case, cynic-al – is it just that the lady doth protest too much?

II think TJ and Spongebob are both right.. It's planning and parking.

"Bath who run a really good park and ride"

Hmm. If I'm alone it's cheaper, but slower, to use the P&R. Otherwise it's cheaper (and quicker) to drive-in and park.

The eggs were too small…

I didn't get that bit – whilst the average housewife might not want them there are many other egg users – e.g. cake producers – who would like them at a nice price.

I tend to agree with Parking/Planning comments, However I think maybe you are looking at the problem to closely. Personally I think the real issue is a complete inabilty to think longer term. As a nation we seem to be thinking on a shorter and shorter term basis.

Im not sure how you change it – Politicions seem concerned only with their term in office, As soon as companies become succesful they get floated at which point the directors focus is mainly the next set of results.

China on the other hand, seems exceptionally good at playing the long game, Appears to be using the recession to invest/takeover Greek ports, building infrastruture in Africa, new rail link to Mid-east.. blah blah

*remembers this is cycling forum and shuts up*

if you don't like the way councils run things… get yourself elected as a councillor and change it! I did!

Admirable jj55

I very much doubt Id get elected! Everyone seems to want results now without allowing time to implement strategies… hence my concern :s

loco motive understandable comment but if we all stood back & worried about what others thought and waited for them to do something nothing would get done

Here are words that have inspired me.

People are unreasonable, illogical and self-centred,
Love them anyway.
If you do good, people will accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives,
Do good anyway.
If you are successful, you win false friends and true enemies,
Succeed anyway.
The good you do will be forgotten tomorrow,
Do good anyway.
Honesty and frankness make you vulnerable,
Be honest and frank anyway.
What you spend years building may be destroyed overnight,
Build anyway.
People really need help but may attack if you help them,
Help people anyway.
Give the world the best you have and you'll get kicked in the teeth,
Give the world the best you've got anyway.

I hate to bang on ( honest!) but really it is a planning issue – the netherlands refused planning for out of town shopping – with the result their town centres still have the butcher the baker and the candlestickmaker

We as a country have been too in thrall to big business who prefer huge out of town malls for economies of scale. In the Netherlands the social aspects have been much more important hence following policies to keep towns centres and diversity I shopping alive.

Parking and car ownership is far more expensive than here and parking in towns is impossible. However the town centres thrive – why – because there is no megastore outside the town centre sucking life out of it.

I agree with the planning comments, unfortunatley some towns are owned by the supermarkets who inhabit them. I'm sure we are all aware that some of the biggest land owners in the UK are Tesco's Asda etc etc and they exploit the planning laws.
I live away from the towncentre (thank god) of Gateshead, for the last 10 years the council have been going to pull down a carpark, 60's concrete monstrosity famous for Get Carter 40 bloody years ago, however the council have sat on their hands whilst Tesco decide what they are going to do. The redevelopment of the town centre is being managed by Spenhill and they are 'working with'/leading by the hand the council into getting what they want from the town centre for their client Tesco (Spenhill are the development arm of Tesco)
Every year at the council elections the same old lines get trotted out by labour councillors, 'look what we've done on the quayside, look at the Angel of the North'..yeah that's fine thanks but the towncentre looks like Basra on a bad day.

JJ – nice words, how do you find being a councillor? I'm considering running at the next election as I'm fed up with the lack of vision from our local council. Did you run for a party or independent? Can you actually make a difference, or are you totally restricted by red tape?

"It's never been the same since they got rid of the giant pencils. "

Drac – will we be saying the same about the concrete lego people around the Haymarket in a few years time?!

I also believe that studies have show that those arriving on public transport spend more than those arriving by car.

Probably to make it worth their while going into town on public transport. I live 10 mins from town, it would cost £12+ to get the three of us in on the bus. Even taking into account petrol and parking charges that's still easily double what it costs to drive. Sad and selfish I know, but maybe cheap public transport would help too.

White101 – I know Tescos have run rings round the Gateshead council. They've done the same in Sunderland too on the old Vaux Brewery site. Can't remember how many years that's been closed whilst Tescos have tried to wendle there way in despite numerous rejections. Good to see the old car park in Gateshead is coming down now, maybe it'll start the ball rolling.

If there's one thing movies have taught us, it's that the zombies will head to the out of town malls.

If there's one thing movies have taught us, it's that the zombies will head to the out of town malls.

That's cos that'll be where most people will head cos you can find everything you need in a secure environment…