https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBPXLDNSLAPEXMECH/planet-x-london-road-sl-apex1

Thinking about this as a Zwift bike… My Parkwood does a fine job as it goes, i’ve got a 32mm Tacx turbo tyre on and it works fine with forks locked out… But would a dedicated road bike with it’s geometry actually work better indoors due to seat/bars/ergonomics etc ?

It won’t get road pedals, will only ever be flats for me. The bike will never, ever ever be used outdoors.

May be slightly excessive gettting a turbo only bike, but hey, lets not go there 🙂

You want a new bike I get it….

But zwift measures output at rear wheel

It doesn’t care if the wheel is on a 20lb bike or a 50lb bike or a shopping trolley for that matter.

Just change your weight in zwift you’ll instantly be better 😉

Put the 500 quid towards a better smart trainer instead?

I think any improvement would be psychological only. I use a Boardman ADV 8.9 on mine and spent most of the time sat up with my hands on the straight bit of the bars – no where near the hoods or drops.

would a dedicated road bike with it’s geometry actually work better indoors due to seat/bars/ergonomics etc?

..The bike will never, ever ever be used outdoors.

This makes me sad

🙂

(Zwift will be happy though)

I use a hack bike collection of parts for a turbo bike – old rear wheel with 4 sprockets on, old fork propped up, etc. The ergonomics feel spot on but it was built of spares – so your first point is valid and it may help for output or training value, just that ergonomics can be done at a far lower cost.

It doesn’t care if the wheel is on a 20lb bike or a 50lb bike or a shopping trolley for that matter.

I wasn’t thinking weight, more riding position.

Put the 500 quid towards a better smart trainer instead?

What’s wrong with the KickR snap ?

I think any improvement would be psychological only. I use a Boardman ADV 8.9 on mine and spent most of the time sat up with my hands on the straight bit of the bars – no where near the hoods or drops.

not needing psychological improvements 🙂 I’m all good on that side 🙂

This makes me sad

Don’t be sad, i don’t like how road bikes ride outdoors, i’ve tried half a dozen now, from full on roadie to CX bikes, they’re just awful outdoors (for me). But i enjoy Zwifting that’s for sure. I have plenty of outdoor bikes and riding 🙂

^ I edited to add something a bit more useful 🙂

Yeah possibly i could lower cost, if something local comes up, if it works OK and if i’m luck on the pricing and sizing. But it’s not like it’s going to be £50 compared to the £500. This way it’s a known new bike, new components and in warranty

Ah of course.

The increased aerodynamics of getting out the wind on the drops.

Oh wait …..

The increased aerodynamics of getting out the wind on the drops.

Oh wait …..

I never mentioned aerodynamics. Not once, not ever. However you must accept that bikes climbing/riding speed are influenced by more than just that ?

I guess it makes sense to train in the position you’re likely to use outdoors, also the available gearing may have an advantage/disadvantage on speed for the same power output?

Not sure why you’re using flats and obviously your choice, but you’d more likely see improvement using a clipless system helping you maintain a smoother power output throughout the pedal stroke (kick and pull etc).

Climbing ? Hang on wasn’t this about zwift a minute ago ?

While in theory I agree with what your saying

The theory is flawed the minute you out it on a stationary turbo.

Once aerodynamics and aesthetics goes out the window finding that ideal maximum power position just becomes a point of moving the contact points till your efficient.

But you want a new bike so buy the new bike…… Itd be as well being a 250 quid btwin job from deathlon though

`It’s about how low you can make your frontal area before the power starts to drop off, won’t make any difference on the trainer but would translate to greater speed outdoors…

Not sure why you’re using flats and obviously your choice, but you’d most likely see improvement using a clipless system helping you maintain a smoother power output throughout the pedal stroke (kick and pull etc).

Just not keen really. It’s historical too possibly as back over the years the turbo bike has also been the commuter/occasional bike and i don’t like anything other than flats outdoors, but the Parkwood never leaves the house now as the T-130 does everything i need outdoors.

I find I spend a fair bit of time sitting upright and not even holding the bars on Zwift and it seems to be just as fast (or slow) that way. So I’m not sure geometry really matters. A comfy saddle is probably the most important part of a turbo bike for me.

I spend most of my time on the hoods. I have heard discussions about sprinting on the drops though so it may be there is a way to unlock more power in that position. I’d be more likely to buy a wheel off turbo and a second hand road bike than a new bike just for zwift.

You sure that 1×11 will give you enough gear range? My zwifting can be quite specific about target cadence for a given power output.

What’s wrong with the KickR snap ?

Nothing, if you had a cheaper trainer like my Vortex it might be a better upgrade.

FWIW I also Zwift in flats and I’ve flicked between an old flat bar commuter and my road bike and I do prefer the feel of the roadie. That said I seem to spend a lot of the time sat upright without touching the bars so it’s not really that logical.

I’m pretty sure the answer is no. As above, you just need the contact points to be optimised for power delivery without the need for aero consideration (contrast with a proper TT or hour record type position where you balance drag against output to find the best compromise)

As long as you can then set up that position zwift can’t tell if it is a dutch shopper or a Dogma

You might be able to consider that a close ratio cassette (for cadence efficiency) and the most efficient drivetrain possible would help, but that’s into marginal gains. I’ve also (idly) wondered if a really heavy rear rim with lots of momentum would be any advantage. IRL no because you have to carry it up every hill and accelerate it out of every corner, but on zwift where you can spin it up at leisure and then just keep it rolling, maybe?

So – save the £500, and fill your tyre with fishing weights?

Maybe a bit quicker because you can haul on the bars more strongly. But it’s still going to be limited by lack of top-end gearing and big gaps between gear ratios, if you’re going Zwift racing. And if you’re not going Zwift racing, why bother? Get a used conventional road bike instead, or something like a Triban.

If you’re using flats on the turbo you’ll probably see gainz in road SPDs and half decent shoes.
You can probably/possibly/maybe put out more power on the MTB than you can on a road bike in a seated position as you are more upright and this is your normal riding position.
I’d be getting a old MTB frame with a road chainset on to save the wear and faff on your main MTB.

I’d be getting a old MTB frame with a road chainset on to save the wear and faff on your main MTB.

The Parkwood that’s on the turbo isn’t my main MTB. It has been outdoors 2-3 times in the last year (and has done 10,000+km on Zwift)

OK, so we’ve scrapped the idea on the bike… fair enough, no problem.

Bought this pair of shoes/pedals to try. I did used to do SPD-SLs but as i say, it was too much of a faff as i used that bike outdoors too, but i’ll give them a whirl when they arrive.

Weeksy, I’d agree the position is better.  However, if its just for Zwift, buy a cheap road bike from eBay.   I have an 8yo Giant Defy permanently mounted to a Elite Direto.  I’m pretty sure the headset is rusted with sweat yet is functionality capable.   You don’t need a new bike, unless you’re wanted to take it outdoors.

I’m going to borrow a road bike for a day or 2 from a mate and do a few races to see any benefits or not. We’ll see what comes from that.

Super clean drivetrain too.

I think it comes down to whether you are riding the turbo to get faster when you ride outside or just because you enjoy it and want to be as good at Zwifting as you can be. If it’s the former then keep everything as close to the bike you ride outside. If the later then get a road bike but that Triban would be better with the narrower gear ratios.

I think it comes down to whether you are riding the turbo to get faster when you ride outside or just because you enjoy it and want to be as good at Zwifting as you can be. If it’s the former then keep everything as close to the bike you ride outside. If the later then get a road bike but that Triban would be better with the narrower gear ratios.

That was more cut and dried in previous years, i was doing the odd longer event like the SDW etc and used the same bike on both the Turbo and the rides outdoors. However the T-130 is plenty fine for the SDW so i will be using that and as such, there’s a fair difference between the turbo 29er HT and the Outdoor bike anyway. But could be argued that both being XC based MTBs they’re closer to eachother than say a Road bike and the T-130 of course.

The Turbo/Zwifting stuff is of course to make me quicker outside, but only from the context of improving my overall fitness. Zwift racing is a massive part of my riding, i’d say a pretty large chunk of my riding is on Zwift and a large chunk of that is in races rather than rides.

In that case get a cheap second hand road bike with close ratio gears for the turbo and use both bikes on it depending on what you want to do on the day.

Before I say this I’d like to point out it’s absolutely pointless trying to go faster on a training tool by anything but training to put out more power. But…

-The position might not be the most efficient. If so, muck about with stem length, bars etc (even upside down risers if necessary).
-1×11 might not be as efficient as you’re running a smaller chainring and consequently a smaller sprocket for the same wheel speed. Bigger chainrings are more efficient.
-Closer spaced gears might allow you to be at a more optimum cadence which might increase your efficiency although I’ve read studies that found no efficiency drop for +/-20% cadence.
-You could go for a faster tyre – ideally one intended for velodrome, bit faster as you don’t have a breaker strip then. I don’t imagine a turbo tyre would be optimised for anything except wear rate.

It sounds like you already have a dedicated turbo bike that’s a far better training tool than any of that would be though – for training you want a position as close as possible to your outdoor bike.

It sounds like you already have a dedicated turbo bike that’s a far better training tool than any of that would be though – for training you want a position as close as possible to your outdoor bike.

Without buying a 2nd Whyte T-130 i’m not going to get a million miles closer than we currently are.

the only downside to that is, whilst it may be optimal for training in that context, it may not be optimal for performance.

However, it’s £500 cheaper 🙂

Without buying a 2nd Whyte T-130 i’m not going to get a million miles closer than we currently are.

so spend £500 on a direct drive turbo and use the whyte.

TBH in some ways that’s not completely daft as far as ideas go but not sure training on a FS bike is that bright an idea… But then again, it’s not that silly either of course.

The subject started more as a Zwift Performance thing though. But i do get the points above

Train as you ride outside unless it’s restricting your power output for Zwift racing. Comfort is more important I think. I love my road bikes but an MTB is more comfortable in a static position. The only benefit of curly bars is you can change hand positions.

Spend the dosh on a 4iii powermeter or power meter pedals so that it’s measuring your output before drive chain inefficiency takes effect. Ideally one you can transfer onto your outside bike(s). I can see you getting into Peleton;)

Spend the dosh on a 4iii powermeter or power meter pedals so that it’s measuring your output before drive chain inefficiency takes effect. Ideally one you can transfer onto your outside bike(s). I can see you getting into Peleton;)

Nah, that’s getting into crazy talk. I’m all for a bit of Zwift racing, but training in power zones, training to specific requirements, that’s not me.

Racing on Zwift and knowing roughly what power i can or can’t maintain is one thing, that’s taking it way to extremes.

Fair enough. Keep your dosh for a nice outside bike then if I were you. Maybe refresh the contact points if you need to. It’s only a matter of time before someone comes up with a Zwift specific saddle!

Keep your dosh for a nice outside bike then if I were you.

LOL what’s wrong with a Whyte T-130 ?

Maybe a bit quicker because you can haul on the bars more strongly. But it’s still going to be limited by lack of top-end gearing and big gaps between gear ratios, if you’re going Zwift racing.

Yep, I think you’d be better off with close gear ratios – I swapped my Kickr cassette for exactly this reason – and tweaking your contact points and particularly the relationship of your saddle / pedals.

My take is that drops are pretty much redundant on the turbo and you probably make less power when you’re tucked down, that’s certainly the case for most people and TT bikes, so it seems logical that it’ll be similar riding on the drops.

I’m about to resurrect my Soma steel double cross as a turbo frame / bike with just a front wheel and drive chain etc. for the sake of convenience. I’m going to flat-bar it though.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Forme-Longcliffe-3-0-Road-Bike-56cm-Trek-Giant-Cannondale-Scott-Specialized-Cube/113698935730?hash=item1a78fc13b2:g:yJwAAOSwzOxcm6Q5&redirect=mobile

Or

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBPXLDNSLAPEXMECH/planet-x-london-road-sl-apex1

Or
Parkwood 29er

Or
You tell me?

I can get the Forme for £300 tomorrow assuming it doesn’t sell on eBay.