The LBS will survive. There are more bikes than ever in the UK and the vast majority of them will have owners who have absolutely no interest in servicing them.

Even most decent home mechanics reach their limits and rely on the LBS for the bigger jobs they don’t have the tools/expertise to perform.

Mechanical knowledge is hard won. Practical skills take a while to develop especially when you are learning through trial and error.

A pure guess but here’s how I reckon the general public breaks down regarding bike maintenance

Keeps it cleaned / lubed: 20%
Basic Maintenance – Indexing gears / changing pads/blocks: 10%
Can change parts / build a bike: >5%
Can service complex parts eg forks: >1%

Admittedly its probably also true that a large majority don’t care that they are riding a creaky rusting piece of pig iron but there is still a massive gap between the home mechanic / enthusiast and even the majority of regualar / semi-regular cyclists

Feeling quite smug I’m in the 1% category 😀

From an LBS point of view.

Over the last couple of years I have seen my trade bias shift far more towards servicing than sales.

There is little point in me stocking anything much high end as if I did I’d still have most of it a year later and only be able to sell it for less than I’d have bought it for. I regularly have to apologise to customers for only being able to show them catalogue pictures of the products that would fit their requirements. I’d love to have a shop full of all the best stuff but if I did I’d eventually have a museum rather than a shop.

The big online retailers are always going to be able to offer the cheapest prices because they have the buying power to get their stock cheaply — just like Tesco. Also, how much do they have to pay the staff who put your shiny new parts in cardboard boxes and tape them up?

The majority of my customers think £500 is a lot to spend on a bike and as long as the supermarkets etc continue to to sell cheap bikes I’ll continue to make a living patching them up. It’s always refreshing to have more enthusiastic and discerning customers in the shop but round here they are too few to be a significant part of my business model.

MB – interesting comments. What are your thoughts on product pricing? I cannot understand the inflation in pricing in most areas of mtb kit. Are suppliers deliberately restricting supply to keep prices high? How do plan for stock? In the current climate, why would you risk holding £2-5k bikes? Is the risk worth taking?

There are a couple of things I don’t understand about the LBS business.

First is why do they not push back on the importers/manufactures refuse to take product from them if they don’t give you a competitive pricing structure.

Why don’t LBS sell online as well to get their volumes up? Ebay and Amazon allow simple entry into online sales.

Times are changing and customers need a compelling reason to spend money these days.

I do agree though with what has been said I think the average STW’er is probably not the market your typical LBS is targeting these days. Maybe they could though with the right plan in place.

If you are a good lbs then you will survive. Not everybody has the inclination to fix their bike, nor the tools, nor the space, nor the time. Customer service is paramount.

It’s great that some sponsor young riders and races too.

My biggest complaint has always been the lack of demo bikes available, fine if you’re a medium or large. I really believe that manufacturers should pull their finger out to help the retailers – any size should be available, for a charge obviously.

Demo bikes have always been a difficult one, from an uninformed perspective say you stock 3 makes, with perhaps 4 fundamentally different models and maybe go with 3 sizes as demos that would be 36 different demo bikes without breaking sweat.

And that is before you get in to people who want to try a custom build frame only option.

Good bike shops do exist and should be cherished for the effort they do put in. The world would be a lot worse if they died out and the only option for getting stuff fixed was Halfords.

Also – what price the benefit of being able to wander in to a bike shop with the kit you bought (and broke) hand it over with the sentence “look what happened?” and know that they will do something to resolve it.

On the subject of Demo bikes LBS’s again need to push back on the suppliers to tell them they need to support them with this.

No car dealer would expect you to buy a car without having a test drive. You don’t go into a BMW dealer and be told that they can’t be expected to have a demo M3 because they are really expensive.

There are a couple of things I don’t understand about the LBS business.

First is why do they not push back on the importers/manufactures refuse to take product from them if they don’t give you a competitive pricing structure.

Because you would have no stock at all, some suppliers are better than others, and some are working harder than others at supporting LBS, but the big boys are very often bypassing the importers and going direct.

Why don’t LBS sell online as well to get their volumes up? Ebay and Amazon allow simple entry into online sales.
Because to do ‘online’ properly costs a lot more than setting up an LBS. Ebay/Amazon fees are astronomical and do not work on the 30-40% margins which are available to LBS’. I’ve run an onlibe bus for 10yrs, a LBS for 3, don’t do online for the LBS as the cost of entry is now too high, can’t compete with CRC, wiggle, merlin

Times are changing and customers need a compelling reason to spend money these days.
Yes, but the LBS is never going to be able to offer lower prices, we have to offer something which is different and less price sensitive

I do agree though with what has been said I think the average STW’er is probably not the market your typical LBS is targeting these days. Maybe they could though with the right plan in place.
The average STW’er is probably not a key target for the average LBS, although there is always the odd one who will shop local becuase they value having an LBS. STW’ers are generally pretty clued up on what they need and where to get it, and many can fit it themselves as well, so not really in need of local service, it is however very much worth doing your best to keep them happy, as they are likely to point work colleages etc in your direction, even if they themselves don’t spend much.

Totally agree with you there shortcut. But as a ‘small’ size rider, it’s jolly frustrating particularly if you want some bling! I’ve been known to completely tie myself in knots comparing geometry on various bikes.

I might add that I have been known to phone my lbs when I’ve had a mechanical on the trail. 😳

My biggest complaint has always been the lack of demo bikes available, fine if you’re a medium or large. I really believe that manufacturers should pull their finger out to help the retailers – any size should be available, for a charge obviously.

Totally agree, but this has to come from the importers, they should keep a good range of demo bikes and make them available to dealers for the cost of the courier fee to send it back and fwds, but they don’t, dealers have to buy the demo bikes, hence no small sizes. It’s hard enough just stocking small sizes, as these are generally the ones left at the end of the year which have to be discounted.

Teamhurtmore, the price rises over the last couple of years are usually blamed on the currency exchange rates. Suppliers have to forecast demand 9 months in advance so they’re more likely being over cautious than deliberately restricting supply. Given the small size of my shop and it’s location in a satelite (dormitary) village to a larger town, I don’t stock any bikes over about £650.

Bazzer

Any LBS could sell online but it would require a big investment in a complex website, purchasing and staff to stand any chance of competing with the existing players. Also, I prefer to see my customers and talk to them.

So what is the answer then LBS’s ?

Or is there not really a problem and you guys make your money from C2W people and commuters who can’t fix a puncture ?

You can’t really blame customers for buying online when they can get it cheaper and quicker from Wiggle or CRC. Its interesting CRC and wiggle market to me and send me vouchers for money off etc. My local LBS just moans that people look at stuff in his shop and buy it online, to the point I don’t like going in just in case they think I am doing that 🙂

bazzer – Member
So what is the answer then LBS’s ?

Or is there not really a problem and you guys make your money from C2W people and commuters who can’t fix a puncture ?To an extent.

You can’t really blame customers for buying online when they can get it cheaper and quicker from Wiggle or CRC. Its interesting CRC and wiggle market to me and send me vouchers for money off etc. My local LBS just moans that people look at stuff in his shop and buy it online, to the point I don’t like going in just in case they think I am doing that

I used to work in an LBS and we’d often point people to CRC/Wiggle/Merlin if we knew it could be bought cheaper there. Forks are a classic example – there are so many models and the cost to the retailer is so high that it’s not really worth stocking them.

Shoes – have you any idea how many folk go into a shop to try them on and then buy them online? Why would any shop invest in a decent stock knowing they have only become a changing room for CRC?

Good LBSs also do “special offers” – often relying on an added bonus of internet sales to get volumes up to a point where trade prices are more attractive.

Oh – and as for competing with the “big guys” – when one company is responsible for manufacture (albeit outsourced), import, distribution and retail, can you really expect a small shop operating on minimal margins to compete?

I think the LBS needs to change with the times. My LBS (spiritually, not geographically) has an active Facebook page, blog and website, and continually changing promotions to drive custom.

Whether this works or not I am completely unaware as I’m just a customer, but it’s a refreshing approach compared to their competitors in the area whose marketing is either non-existent (in most cases) or bland corporate despite appearing from the outside to be a cooperative organisation.

Edit: Druidh wrote pretty much what I was thinking as I was typing it, incidentally about the same shop…

Also an LBS bloke here.

As stated already the vast majority here are keen bikers, a very small percentage of overall riders.

We target £300 to £1000 in bike sales, doing alright so far this year so must be doing something right.

Servicing and essential spares is hwere it’s at as well, lots of disc pads, gloves, the smaller stuff.

As for demo bikes, they are a waste of time, occasionally get some in, but often they get the demo from us and buy it cheaper online.

Seems very obvious this year, particulary with kids bikes they want to use us to ‘size up’ their kids then go buy elsewhere. In other industries this would be ‘consultation’ as charged accordingly.

At the same time I understand the need to get a bargain or save money.

It’s a case of working out who you can turn into long term customers, and who is wasting your time.

Yes we’re on Facebook now and trying to offer better deals for regulars.

In other industries this would be ‘consultation’ as charged accordingly.

I don’t think so – retail clothes? cars? motorbike kit?

Seems very obvious this year, particulary with kids bikes they want to use us to ‘size up’ their kids then go buy elsewhere. In other industries this would be ‘consultation’ as charged accordingly.

I’m certain that this is something that affects a lot of specialist retailers, not just bike shops. Not sure what you can do about it as the modern consumer seems preprogrammed to take the piss.

It’s one thing to ask for advice from a retailer and then walk away because you either thought the advice was a bit duff or you just didn’t like the cut of their jib. But to get good advice and recommendations and then buy online from somewhere that isn’t able to provide the same quality of service is poor form.

But every time someone comes through your door to try before they buy online YOU have an opportunity to convert them into a customer.

You just need to find the right way of doing it. Even if its selling them something else other than the thing they came to try that you can’t compete on.

You need to be a salesman !!!

I always used to think that bike shops were going to die out with the Internet’s cheap prices and how to guides. But since I’ve been working as a mechanic in a shop, I have been amazed just how incompetent soooo many people are. People who outwardly seem intelligent and discerning, but who seem unable to do even the easiest puncture repair correctly. And I think that’s fine really. I think bikes are easy to repair, but it’s good for my future employment if it seems like voodoo to other people! 😀

shoes: why not charge £10 for people to try them on, but then take that money off the price if they decide to buy a pair from you.

I bought my road shoes from the LBS. They were a fair bit more expensive from them but I had a laugh with the owner trying them on and I took so long I thought I could not buy them online 🙂

I started reading this and at first thought jesus, were all doomed, no-one likes the LBS so may as well pack up and go home.

But then I remembered the reason I set up my shops in the first place was because I didnt like the shops in the area and the attitude of the staff.

i cant claim were a great shop, and we have been changing our line up over the years, but servicing is important, high end stuff is really hard to manage, we keep trying. Demo bikes are difficult, we used to have a few, but then tried to work with the importers, but they let us down badly, I think some reps have favourite shops and they get all the demo bikes (could be me just being bitter at not ever getting the demo bikes when I need them)

now we are more about commuters and bikes up to £800, and then we do bikes in the £3k area like Yeti, transition and Lapierre.
weird.

as an LBs we have done loads for local up and coming talented riders and our race team is brilliant, I used to do a lot of shop rides but havent been able to recently through illness but do our best to get involved with local riding groups.
We promote cycling with the council, and local traibuilders, we got a skills area and pump track built in The local area, we organise races for BC. fight for access rights with council and land owners.

Its the love of cycling that drives us and I fear that when some of the good local bike shops fold then we will all be worse off for it.

I cant see large chains getting involved at the local level and helping out, they will always want to support the big names as they are the ones they will want to see with their logos on in the glossy magazines.
So I see the sport surviving, but grass roots racing has/will die off.

Sorry Bazzer but you’re being a bit too idealistic there. In the real world it just doesn’t happen like that. There’s just too many people out there for whom the only thing that matters is the number after the pound sign. It wouldn’t be a cost effective use of my time to spend too long persuading people to buy something that I’ve had to drop the price so far on that I’m only making pennies doing it. The knock on effect would be that word would soon get round and everyone would expect me to work for next to nothing.

When I’ve got a workshop full of repairs waiting to be done I will politely apologise to people for not having the time for a long conversation if I feel they are just wasting my time and I have promises to keep that I made earlier in the day

So given that CRC/Wiggle/some other online empire more often than not puts stuff up at trade + VAT.

just WHAT do you lot expect LBS’s to do sell it to you at a loss?? and that doesn’t even take into account volume discounts etc….

LBS’s struggle to compete on price because they cannot buy it as cheaply as the online sellers!

I have to admit CRC etc can be pretty useful as they typically have stock and cheaper than the distributors.
So we sometimes buy from them to fulfil orders.

But the problem there is the UK distributors often run ot of stock and the trade price to us is often higher than an online retailer.

piss take but small shops buy **** all volume in the scheme of things.
I remember a couple of months ago we were offered end of season zestys, we rang back to take a few and put them on sale at a discount, but we were too late, I think it was Evans had bought the lot at a cost of about £300k
its a very one sided battle.

How about LBS acknowledge they can’t compete with online prices, and actually use them?

Customer wants a new stem? Talk them through the various options, and include fitting as a ‘consultancy’.

Get CRC to mail the part direct to the shop – LBS fits it.

Charging for fitting online bought stuff is a reasonable activity, but you’d be surprised how many folk think you should do it for free/a packet of biscuits. AFAIK, HMRC/council/power companies do not yet accept groceries and confectionery as payment.

Well we have taken a hit and not made a profit on a part in order to get a bike serviced and out the door for the date required instead of waiting for some part to come back in stock at the suppliers.

I’d rather keep a customer happy and not make money than hold out for a part and let them down, for the sake of a few quid.

As per many previous comments I think the LBS’s that survive will move more towards servicing/repairs and lower end bikes. I have a great LBS, maybe I am one of their “wanted” customers as I have bought a couple of decent bikes (Heckler, Whyte E5 & 19) I recommend people to them and use them for repairs / maintenance as I don’t have the time (or skills) to repair. I (try to) DIY some repairs when I have time but would rather use my spare time to ride or spend time with my two little ones. Whenever I want to buy something I always go to my LBS first – for parts I can fit I’ll let them know what I can buy online for and they match if they can, some bits I buy online

Wow that Bazzer is one clever fella, there seems to be no end to his talents. There seems to be loads of clever chaps on here that can turn their hands to anything bike related.
Funny though, all that intelligence and they have yet to work out that there are others in the World that do not possess the practical sills they do.
Oh hang on though, I may not just be thick, it could be I’m just a lazy b’stard. Thats ok then – I feel a little better now 🙄

The arrogance of some people amazes me.
PS My LBS is great, called in today, had a nice free cup of coffe, a natter and my bike fixed to boot, happy days.

I have to agree with Bazzer on some of his points, its tough, but if someone has made the effort to come to your shop then you have to think that they are interested in buying some thing, I dont mind a bit of haggling, some you win some you dont, but you cant dwell on the deals that get away because someone wants to compare you purely on price.
One thing we do very well with is second hand stuff and that is an area I see potential to grow a whole department or seperate shop dealing in.

Wow that Bazzer is one clever fella, there seems to be no end to his talents. There seems to be loads of clever chaps on here that can turn their hands to anything bike related.
Funny though, all that intelligence and they have yet to work out that there are others in the World that do not possess the practical sills they do.

Thanks but there are limits I am not that good at dancing 🙂

The reason I go on about it is because I know its not that hard. If someone asks me to do a job for them on their bike I will generally say I will help them do it. Nine times out of ten they will be amazed at what they have done and say I really didn’t think it would be so easy.

Take say doing an oil change on a set of Pikes. I reckon its about as difficult as cooking a beef wellington. I don’t actually know how to do that but I reckon I could have a good go if you gave me the recipe book.

Biggest problem with people achieving stuff is not attempting it in the first place. Remember the longest journey starts with the first step.

But maybe I am wrong and people can’t do anything for themselves any more and the country is full of morons (tongue firmly in cheek)

I dont mind a bit of haggling

How does that work out when you try it at the checkout in Waitrose?

How does that work out when you try it at the checkout in Waitrose?

seems to work quite well everywhere where you can speak to people who have the authority
Would you pay windscreen price for a car or haggle a bit?

I mean I dont mind if people come in the shop and look to negotiate on the price.
Ideally everyone would just walk in and pay the ticket price, but that dosent always happen and a bit of haggling means I can get rid of a load of gords I got lumbered with.

Take say doing an oil change on a set of Pikes. I reckon its about as difficult as cooking a beef wellington. I don’t actually know how to do that but I reckon I could have a good go if you gave me the recipe book.

Biggest problem with people achieving stuff is not attempting it in the first place. Remember the longest journey starts with the first step.
I reckon wasting a beef wellington will be a lot less expensive than wrecking a set of forks, stripping a bb or ovalising a swing arm bearing hole if you are a bit cack handed 💡 There are recent posts regards this very issue(broken fork bits)currently on this site.
I am an ex motor mech and currently a fitter in a factory. I work with lots of people and I can assure you that I would not let some of my colleagues near my bike/s ❗

interesting thread, what sadden me the most is that people always focus on the price. Is it really what matters to most. I have been shopping at the same LBS for the most part of the last 12 years now. I never think about buying somewhere else. Even if it means I’ll have to ride a bike with a slx dérailleur rather than a XT. To be fair it won’t make any difference as well. Do you really think a small r on a bike part is going to make you a riding god? I think that the little extra I pay goes not only into one of my friend pockets, but also into the community. And overall I think it is worth it. I have lost the count of the coffee I have drunk there. The number of time where we drove to Nice (living about 45 minute drive now) and just waited in the shop 10-15 minutes for little grumpy one to wake up. The number of amazing rides I have done after they shown me on the map where to go, after introducing me to my riding friends. Can CRC wiggle do that? Do CRC wiggle lend you a bike/shock/fork while yours is being serviced? Can CRC advice you on what tyres to run for local trails? How many races have CRC helped to organised, how many trails have they maintained? Can CRC help you when you need a part for your bike in the middle of a multi day stage race? I am currently proud to shop at the same shop that the endura/porshe team leader, who started racing thanks to the bike shop. And as for biking being a hobby, I think we need more than ever LBS to support the “activity”.

I can’t be bother to proof read me, it’s probably giggerbish so please excuse me it’s late and I’ll post “coorect version of this thread tomorrow.

GLOBAL LOCAL

Is what we do…. Because we specialise in cool stuff we don’t get many visitors. Being on an island (ish) does not help. So we deal online, but give you a local style of service.

It’s time consuming, but it’s worth it. We have regular customers all over the world. If we depended on walk in trade we wouldn’t last a month. But the local community do also get a bike shop with a workshop.

Weird mix but it works. And it’s great place to “work”.