Will the BNP do the same as Sinn Fein?

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  • Will the BNP do the same as Sinn Fein?
  • Premier Icon BigDummy
    Subscriber

    European Parliament signing-on allowances are well worth having. If they have any sense they will attend.

    I don’t think Griffin minds foreign people particularly anyway. As long as they are white, somewhere else and not ravishing ethnically British women.

    Premier Icon BigJohn
    Subscriber

    Sinn Fein cannot sit in Parliament because to do so would require them to swear an oath of alleigance to the Queen. As their avowed intent is to wrench Northern Ireland from the Queen’s dominion, they are unable to do so.

    And next time somebody tells you we live in a democracy, remember that and realise a constitutional monarchy is not quite the same thing.

    grumm
    Member

    They are going to Brussels to dig through the archives and find the secrets of privatisation apparently – according to the BNP website.

    menothim
    Member

    Well, I do dream of the day that we get rid of the Royals, or at the very least change the relationship we have with them to a less fawning, more European style relationship.

    Euro Royals are so much classier than ours.

    I winder if we could borrow Queen Raniah of Jordan?

    tankslapper
    Member

    Sinn Fein cannot sit in Parliament because to do so would require them to swear an oath of alleigance to the Queen. As their avowed intent is to wrench Northern Ireland from the Queen’s dominion, they are unable to do so.

    They choose not to sit in Parliament but still take the pay…….

    menothim
    Member

    Grumm, that’s interesting but makes no sense to me… I would have thought a right wing party would have been happy with privatisation?

    Guess I need to learn more about politics.

    grumm
    Member

    Think it was part of their strategy of capturing ‘old labour’ votes, which seems to have been very successful.

    Premier Icon BigDummy
    Subscriber

    Why do we think the BNP are “right wing”?

    Unless we have decided that racist knuckle-dragging viciousness is inherently “right wing” (which I respectfully suggest is silly, although a useful political trick for the left) it is not clear to me what elements of their platform are right wing particularly.

    grumm
    Member

    Well anti-immigration is a traditional position of the right, no?

    Premier Icon BigDummy
    Subscriber

    In modern rhetoric, yes. But I am not sure it is right. It is perfectly possible to create a left-wing argument against immigration on the basis that, by allowing in lots of cheap brown people it drives down the value of indigenious labour. “British jobs for british workers” could be realistically characterised as a “national socialist” as opposed to “international socialist” position. If you jettison the idea that a working man has no country then it is unclear why the working men of any particular country will be sympathetic to working men from other countries pricing them out of their home labour market. Likewise, the stuff about privatisation will be old fashioned socialist stuff about the importance of the state owning key industries and utilities.

    I suspect that the fact we see it as a “right wing” position is that the modern left is not concerned with “labour” but with such fluffiness as “tolerance” and “diversity” which says that immigration is good because our proles need some culture.

    This is not to say that I approve of the BNP. I’m just not sure that calling the BNP “right wing” merely because they are racists helps the analysis. 🙂

    Premier Icon BigDummy
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    That diagram initially loads on my screen then goes peculiar.

    menothim
    Member

    BigDummy – as a centrist, with gentle leanings to the left, but an extremely libertarian outlook I concede I have happily and unquestioningly accepted the perceived wisdom of the BNP being right wing. Particularly as Griffin is a Cambridge educated lawyer.

    Premier Icon aracer
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    So being an Oxbridge educated lawyer makes you right wing? 😯

    Premier Icon BigDummy
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    I had a lot of fun reading Jonah Goldberg’s book “Liberal Fascism” and also Nick Cohen’s “What’s Left”, both interesting on this stuff.

    Ultimately, I’m not sure it helps either way, unless we’re doing the sort of childish politics where establishing that someone is “right wing” means you’ve won the argument. 🙂

    And someone said Griffin was a chemist only an hour ago. He really is an enigma wrapped in a mystery, wrapped in the flayed skin of a jowly man with piggy little eyes.

    willard
    Member

    He went to Uni in Cambridge? That would explain a lot. Probably went that way after fagging for a couple of final year students or something.

    By the way, if the BNP guys have any sense, they will get their staffers to go and collect the turning up money. All they have to do is sign to say they are there and take the cash.

    European parliment expenses make the recent debacle in the UK seem like someone taking the odd penny from a change jar. Thieving gets.

    menothim
    Member

    Seeing as the BNP hate all foreigners, they presumably get themselves in a lather at the thought of going overseas… which leads me to wonder, why on earth did they stand in the Euro elections where they might need to speak to people who are, well foreign?

    Will they do the same Sinn Fein and not bother to turn up to parliament?

    I’m feeling deeply ashamed and upset to be in Britain today with the Euro-sceptic and Euro-hostile right on the rise.

    crikey
    Member

    I had a lot of fun reading Jonah Goldberg’s book “Liberal Fascism” and also Nick Cohen’s “What’s Left”, both interesting on this stuff.

    Ultimately, I’m not sure it helps either way, unless we’re doing the sort of childish politics where establishing that someone is “right wing” means you’ve won the argument.

    And someone said Griffin was a chemist only an hour ago. He really is an enigma wrapped in a mystery, wrapped in the flayed skin of a jowly man with a piggy little eye… I think you’ll find…

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    Probably went that way after fagging for a couple of final year students or something.

    I thought all that fagging only happened in boarding schools…?

    Premier Icon RichT
    Subscriber

    Although they never turn up, Sinn Fein MPs do claim over £100,000 each for second homes in London. They seem quite happy to take the cash from HM’s government.

    And as for Griffin, what do you expect from a tab, an Oxford man would never……….

    jova54
    Member

    This is not to say that I approve of the BNP. I’m just not sure that calling the BNP “right wing” merely because they are racists helps the analysis.

    Would it be true to say that BNP style racism/facism is based upon colour or ethnic origin which has been a ‘traditionally’ far “right wing” attitude whereas socialist/left wing attitudes like ‘British jobs for British workers’ is based upon your current nationality no matter where you came from or what colour your skin is?

    Premier Icon nickc
    Subscriber

    Farage (of UKIP) was calling the BNP a National Socialist organisation this morning. I think at some point the very far right and very far left probably meet in terms of policy.

    willard
    Member

    So which end was Hitler then? He was a National Socialist yes? But he was also a fascist… So did that make him left or right wing?

    Premier Icon BigDummy
    Subscriber

    You’re using “fascist” in a way that would have annoyed both Hitler and Mussolini enormously. 🙂

    Do the BNP hate all foreigners? What about the Polish ones flying that Spitfire in their poster? or thew American ones in hard hats in their flyers (same ones used as used by the Shropshire Conservatives in their electioneering)?
    or is it just our dusky skinned cousins they resent? and is it a real deep down political hatred, or just jealousy because Nick griffen can’t dance and has a tiny pen1s (although he himself appears to be a rather large dick)

    zaskar
    Member

    No matter how much you lot hate the BNP, quite a lot of people voted for them.

    If you want tpo make a difference-join the anti-nazis groups or just get off your butt and vote.

    Labour have really screwed up big time and they’re are not alone.

    I think at least if we have a points system like Oz -it’ll be fine.

    But to vote for Nazis-there is no excuse.

    Spongebob
    Member

    Will the BNP do the same as Sinn Fein?

    Impossible! Sein Fein used a religious disagreement as grounds to maim and kill innocent people for decades. They bullied governments to the the point where Sein Fein were given parliamentary seats to appease them and to end their violent ways (but that didn’t work either). Nothing will stop those nutters other than the language they use – violence. Very very sad!

    In my view we should all feel much more aggrieved about these murdering monsters.

    I don’t like the BNP one tiny bit, but they are pussy cats compared to Sinn Fein!

    FuzzyWuzzy
    Member

    “religious disagreements” are the underlying cause of most human conflicts. I’d vote for a party that banned religion

    Spongebob
    Member

    Here here FuzzyWuzzy!

    Spongebob
    Member

    Well actually, a party that found a suitable place for religion, relegating it to it’s rightful place – an insignificant recreational passtime, or for supporting the needy.

    Norton
    Member

    Terms like right wing and fascism aren’t really that useful now- but “National Socialism” does pretty much sum up the BNP as they espouse fairly socialist economic policies within a nationalist rather than an international world view – I’d say they are much much nearer to aspects of “old” Labour (including the racism albeit undisguised) than to the Conservatives.

    My understanding of the term Fascism involves authoritarian state capitalism (I think originally applied to Mussolini not Hitler) effectively turning the country into a giant corporation- as such you could argue that New Labour is closer to being a fascist party than the BNP are….

    lyons
    Member

    THat queen of Jordan is a bit tasty…

    Premier Icon Capt. Kronos
    Subscriber

    I entirely agree, much better than our queenie 🙂

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    Why do we think the BNP are “right wing”?

    ‘We think the BNP are right-wing’ because that is the label which society uses to describe political groups with their views. They are right-wing because they call themselves right-wing. They are right-wing because the parties which are closest to them politically, are right-wing. They are right-wing because they say that they are anti-left-wing.

    We think the BNP are right-wing because they are right-wing. Only someone who spends an inordinate amount of time reading books on politics, would need to ask that daft question.

    And please BD, don’t throw at me the old bollox about Fascists always being historically very strong supporters of State Monopoly Capitalism, therefore it somehow suggests that “they might be socialists”.

    And yes, the new neo-Nazi MEP for Yorkshire and the Humber cut his political teeth in a party called the National Socialist Movement, but he has never been a socialist.

    The only reason his party was called ‘National Socialist’ because the fascist in the party, idolised Adolf Hitler (it was formed on Hitler’s birthday ffs) and the German Nazis called their party ‘ The National Socialist Party’. But they were never socialists.

    And the only reason the Nazis called themselves ‘National Socialists’, was because socialism was very popular in the 1920s. And fascists are always liars who gain influence by misleading people. End of.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    BigButSlimmerBloke: “Do the BNP hate all foreigners? What about the Polish ones flying that Spitfire in their poster? or thew American ones in hard hats in their flyers (same ones used as used by the Shropshire Conservatives in their electioneering)”

    Win!

    Willard “So which end was Hitler then? He was a National Socialist yes? But he was also a fascist…”

    Calling yourself a socialist does not make you a socialist. Obviously.

    Did anyone else see Channel 4 news tonight? They had Andrew Brons on, and Krishnan Guru-Murthy kicked off with “Do you think that the impact of all immigrants and their descendants has been bad… Or are some of us are OK?” Guy had no idea what to say. I lolled.

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    Guy had no idea what to say.

    You’re kidding me ? 😯 ffs ……… the guy has been a neo-Nazi all his life, you would think he’d have a ready made answer for that question.

    breatheeasy
    Member

    “Guy had no idea what to say.”

    Your kidding me right? I saw that interview and I hate to say it but that BNP guy probably made more supporters than that stupid Labour crone they dragged out.

    And so much for the news teams being neutral – Khrisnan pretty much set the tone of the interview with that “attack”, however justified.

    Interesting reading that poll they did, BNP voters vs normal voters. Looks like the rest of the electorate ain’t far behind in much our thinking…

    quite a lot of people voted for them

    About the same number who voted last time, but geo-politics handed them seats this time

    BTW I don’t know how anyone can admire a hateful, dweeby, moustachioed bloke with a p00 fetish.

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