+10000

The problem wouldn’t be half as bad if the cyclists were seen as law abiding moral high ground holders.

All bike manufacturers should employ Kontakt-5 in their frame building process(not for weight weenies).Should ensure cars give you a wide berth but whatever you don’t drop your bike.
Or why not go the whole hog and get some of these now redundant bad boy enforcers into the urban jungle.I’ll take the driver at 0.48 seconds
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j-Y7FVE3dU[/video]

Just saw this after the last tweet of Bradley.

@bradwiggins it’s a valid one tho, as a driver I am so nervous driving alongside cyclists without helmets. Its like driving w/out a seatbelt

Day in day out I see stupid dangerous actions by fellow cyclists (and occasionally myself!) which not only put themselves in danger but others too, and to then bring all the enforcement against the driver is a bit of hipocrisy

Maybe. I’d argue that it rarely puts anyone else in danger. Deaths and injuries caused by cyclists are statistically insignificant. Deaths by motor vehicles not.

Bella Bathurst:

“Cyclists [in the UK] were faced with a landscape which either took no interest in them or appeared keen on actively eliminating them…the law ignored [cyclists]. The solution for many of them was to develop a style of cycling based on a combination of mountain biking, road racing, BMX skills and gymnastics…The law ignored them, so they ignored the law.”

The style of riding in Netherlands is much more relaxed. It’s hard to ride slowly when you’re expected to mix and merge with traffic travelling at 30mph

Maybe. I’d argue that it rarely puts anyone else in danger

Cyclist do something stupid, driver try to avoid him, drivers hit pedestrian.

Not such an unlikely occurence.

This thread is a disgrace.

You’ve put us in a cage with lions and your offering us protective clothing and lion taming lessons.

FFS do something about the Lions

I will be using this in the future!

*double post*

Not such an unlikely occurence.

But unlikely enough that I’ve never heard of it being claimed as the cause of an accident. Lots of guff about the “danger” of cyclists breaking traffic laws but as far as I can see they’re almost never a danger to anyone but themselves (and even then a very small fraction of cyclist KSIs where the cyclist is actually at fault)

But unlikely enough that I’ve never heard of it being claimed as the cause of an accident

Well if you have never heard of it…

It seems to me that people are actually mixing things up. Structures and education = preventive measures.
Helmet and protective gear = protective measures.

They are not antagonist one with the other.

JEEEZ………..!

How difficult can it be to use common sense and minimise, minimise, minimise?

Maybe. I’d argue that it rarely puts anyone else in danger

Cyclist do something stupid, driver try to avoid him, drivers hit pedestrian.

Not such an unlikely occurence.

you sir are a buffoon

cyclist never do anything stupid.

no one is saying they don’t

According to some on here it’s always the motorists fault

According to some on here it’s always the motorists fault

Love how this debate always comes back to evil car drivers and better driving standards….while completely ignoring the huge number of idiots on bikes.

Went out on the road for a few hours today (no helmet) and every car passed me with space to spare, on narrow roads cars waited (no revving or beeping) until they could pass safely, it was a joy….when i go out tomorrow on the MTB i will wear a helmet, i’d like to do some more Gravity Enduro next year and find myself pushing harder and harder on most rides….i’ve come off enough times among tree roots, stumps, rocks etc and seen the battle scars on my helmet to make me thankful it wasnt my scalp bearing the brunt of these lapses in talent….no car drivers, scary lorries or other such nonsense around….but still worth a helmet if you’re likely to fall off, which i do from time to time.

However, on my way back in to town today i came across loads of kids (summer hols, oh joy) riding like dicks….no other word for it.

Riding two abreast while having a play fight involving pushing each other to the kerb or out to the road….riding on the pavement and then launching off the kerb into the road without checking if it was clear….its easy to blame the evil motorist but really and truly as a group we dont seem to have a minimum standard of competency for riding on the road, most adults i see out and about are fine but the kids seem intent on making themselves weaving, jumping RTC statistics.

Why’s everyone latched on to the helmets point he made, it was one thing in a number of things he thought would increase safety.

He may be a good cyclist but he isn’t God and so not everything he say will be gospel.

Hopefully his comments will send the debate in the right direction – its mainly the behaviour of motorists that is the biggest issue, not whether helmets should be made compulsory.

The driving test could feature a section on passing cyclists safely…..but to be fair the highway code covers this and a learner driver is expected to have studied this in preparation for their test.

I’d favour training in schools, both classroom, video and practical lessons.

Just for balance i’ve been out on two decent length road rides this week, encompassing country lanes, dual carriageway and town riding and not had any problems from cars.

Late to the party here.
What was Wiggins meant to say? he was fronted on TV during what should have been a happy time.
Wiggins is a racing cyclist and we somehow think some words from him would end all deaths forever.

For the record I’ve been riding a long old while now. Last year I was wiped out by a hit and run driver and left in the road. The back of my helmet was non existent after the collision. It may well have saved my life.
I safety officer wanted to use my lid as an example, but upon seeing it thought it was too graphic.

Where’s TJ these day? He’d normally be all over this like a rash! It’s been quite refreshing to have different people trundling out the same tired old arguments.

most adults i see out and about are fine but the kids seem intent on making themselves weaving, jumping RTC statistics.

Must be where you live. Most kids I see ride reasonably sensibly on road. Kids being kids? What next?

Anyway this thread was sparked by an adult cyclist death where a helmet would apparently have made no difference. An inch of polystyrene won’t help when a bus drives over you.

What would help would be training for cyclists and more penalties for bad driving.

At the moment penalties are a joke. What will 3pts and a £37 fine for example do to discourage deliberate bad driving involving a punishment overtake. You’d get a bigger fine for overstaying on a parking meter.

http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/man-fined-37-for-careless-driving.html

not sure if anyone has linked to Wiggos account but,

Bradley Wiggins ?@bradwiggins

I wasn’t on me soap box CALLING, was asked what I thought #myopiniondoesntcountformuch
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6h Bradley Wiggins Bradley Wiggins ?@bradwiggins

I suggested it may be the way to go to give cyclists more protection legally I involved In an accident
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6h Bradley Wiggins Bradley Wiggins ?@bradwiggins

Just to confirm I haven’t called for helmets to be made the law as reports suggest

The driving test could feature a section on passing cyclists safely…..but to be fair the highway code covers this and a learner driver is expected to have studied this in preparation for their test.

Well it already does to some extent – questions about passing cyclists and horse riders could feature in the theory test; and obviously if you encounter cyclists during your test you need to pass them safely. Rather than ‘critical masses’ cyclists could sort out a rota between themselves around their local test centre so that every driver would have to encounter them! Or we could realise that how people drive in their test and in reality is not the same.

Wiggo for PM

The most deadly vehicles as far as cyclists and all other road users for that matter are the big vehicles usually HGVs and as in this tragic case buses.The people who drive these drive professionally, 5 days a week most weeks of the year for years and years ,encountering cyclists, horses , pedestrians ,sleeping drivers,drunk drivers,Sunday drivers,tourists and god knows what else along the way,far more driving and far more experience of the road than most on here.How will a bit more driver training before they take their test realistically help reduce accidents for this group?
I just don’t think it’s that simple.

juan – Member
Cyclist do something stupid, driver try to avoid him, drivers hit pedestrian.
Not such an unlikely occurence.

Got the stats for that Juan? I would be interested in seeing them.

6h Bradley Wiggins Bradley Wiggins ?@bradwiggins

Just to confirm I haven’t called for helmets to be made the law as reports suggest

he hath spoketh 8)
end of thread?

Video and more info

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tomchiversscience/100174200/i-hate-to-disagree-with-bradley-wiggins-but-mandatory-cycle-helmets-would-be-a-terrible-idea/

Same old re hash

For – protects your head

Against
Reduce numbers so effect on health – tbh I am not concerned as not my problem if someone else does not exercise.
Safety in numbers – probably an effect but could be countered by education
Drivers reaction to helmets – Perhaps a factor/probably but who knows how they are affected if everyone wears one.

Big problem with stats is that those who dont need to go to hospital because a helmet worked are not in the stats

i sometimes think this gets sidetracked to it wont save your life and we ignore the effect it will have for minor/major but non life threatening bumps.

i knocked myself out and fubbared a helmet but rode off nan bield…I would not have ridden off without a helmet though I would have lived and may have got a nice helicopter ride

Depends what you want tbh.
Personally I think it is daft not to but I would not make it compulsory

If you have a £5 head, wear a £5 helmet.

I have cracked two helmets and walked away from both incidents unscathed. A third accident I had (slipped on ice and ****tted the back of my head on the road at a junction) resulted in no damage to the helmet, whiplash, concussion and a blinding headache for four days. I dread to think about the consequences of not having had a helmet on that day.

No doubt there is an argument that the road should have been gritted. But I went out on a cold morning, I knew the risk, I put safety equipment on to mitigate that risk. I’m still alive and healthy as a result.

What would you rather have in the steering wheel of your car? An airbag or a six inch metal spike? No doubt you’d drive more carefully with the spike, but you wouldn’t accept it. So why on earth would you get on a bike without a helmet?

What would you rather have in the steering wheel of your car? An airbag or a six inch metal spike? No doubt you’d drive more carefully with the spike, but you wouldn’t accept it. So why on earth would you get on a bike without a helmet?

Can’t fault the logic.

Aren’t most bike/car accidents SMIDSY?
If so how would a driver’s reaction/thoughts/beliefs to helmet wearing matter…he ain’t seen ya.

Death Data stats, When a cyclist is in collision with another vehicle, 71% chance of head injury being the COD when not wearing a helmet, 30% when wearing a helmet.

Surely whether or not a helmet is a good thing, and whether or not they should be compulsory are two very different debates? A lot of folk on here seem to confuse the two.

And as for

The most deadly vehicles as far as cyclists and all other road users for that matter are the big vehicles usually HGVs and as in this tragic case buses.

yes, that’s very true, however in the case of buses at least I can think of one great example of a company very much on the cyclists’ side. LRT in Edinburgh actively encourage (indeed enforce) their drivers to be very aware of cyclists. I cycle loads in Edinburgh city centre and LRT drivers are great. No problems whatsoever with them and I’m hapy to dish out praise where it’s due.

Wish I could say the same for First Bus and Citylink though. It’s only a matter of time before they kill someone (cyclist or pedestrian) but the morons that run the company (and who drive for them) don’t seem to give a damm.

What would you rather have in the steering wheel of your car? An airbag or a six inch metal spike? No doubt you’d drive more carefully with the spike, but you wouldn’t accept it. So why on earth would you get on a bike without a helmet?

Can’t fault the logic.

Absolutely can fault the logic. Scientific studies (here) have shown that wearing a helmet while driving is probably more effective than wearing a helmet when cycling in terms of preventing injury, and that head injuries are more common while driving. So if you don’t wear a helmet when driving, then why on earth would you wear one when cycling?

Can’t fault the logic.

Yes you can, because the logic is flawed. I wear a helmet quite a lot, but if I perceive the risk of not wearing one to be negligible then I don’t bother as cycling is more comfortable without one. Taken to it’s logical conslusion, the argument for always wearing one because it’s safer should also apply to all drivers and pedestrians.

How the twattyfuck is riding without a helmet more comfortable? If you are bothered about a little bit of helmet rub you aren’t trying nearly hard enough and should give your bike to someone more deserving.

to be fair it really depends which helmet is chafing 😉

What would you rather have in the steering wheel of your car? An airbag or a six inch metal spike? No doubt you’d drive more carefully with the spike, but you wouldn’t accept it. So why on earth would you get on a bike without a helmet?

Perhaps a better analogy would be , would you rather, or rather not, wear a helmet in the car?

One of the things that gets me about the helmet debate, is that if I seriously turned up at work every morning, in the car with a full face helmet on, the same people who would string me up for not wearing a helmet on my bike would think I was a lunatic. Yet head injuries are responsible for a massive number of fatalities in RTAs.

Helmet debate aside though, I’m more disappointed with the reporting. It looks like Wiggins was quizzed and so gave his general opinion in that laid back conversational tone he has, and bosh, it’s front page headlines. BRADLEY WIGGINS PLEADS FOR LAW ON HELMETS. What bullshit.