Hi all- first post so be gentle.
I’ve had a hardtail for last 5 years (Merlin Malt 4), and just recently my MTB enthusiasm has been reinvigorated and I’m really enjoying it. I’ve an urge that I want to buy a full suspension bike, but having never ridden one I don’t really know why….just excited in a small child/new bike way.

So, good people of Singletrack, how do I justify this to myself, and, obvious next question, what sort of bike to look for? I live in the Lakes and ride the predominantly rocky mountain trails round keswick, as well as Whinlatter trail and occasional trips to 7stanes. Not really looking to get into freeridey/downhilling riding- too scared. Any suggestions?
Thanks, Tom

Go and try some out

Demo something. A susser is not to everybody’s liking.

I had a similar dilema three years ago. I bought a Trek Top Fuel (a short travel full suspension XC design) which I found gave me more confidence on the rougher stuff. I would equate it to being a ‘comfortable hardtail’ compared to the longer travel bikes now on offer- perhaps that is the way to go?. I never regretted moving over, although I still have the hardtail.

I went through 3 bikes in quick succession before settling on my Patriot. It was a great bike, made my riding loads better (confidence), made me faster and may me enjoy riding more. It was however overkill for most of my normal rides, making my favourite local routes positively boring and made climbing more of a pain. It was also very heavy (built up in quite a dH style).

So, now I ride HT again and prefer it, but I do miss the full bounce when I’m in Wales!

Ask yourself honestly what kind of ridin you’re going to do, and would your riding benefit more from a really nice HT? Or a good fork change? Tyres maketh the bike as well..

I’ve got Specialized Pitch which is very confidence inspiring and fantastic as soon as you point it down hill, granted they way it’s set up it drags slightly on the climbs but as I’m getting fitter they become easier 😀 abd the DH bits make up for it.

I’ve also got a Cove handjob, this isn’t built especially light either, more of an aggressive HT build adn thats great for trips through woods and anythign that doesn’t involve too many rocks, drops etc. At least thats the way I see it anyway

whats your budget?

are you looking at new or used complete or building it from loads of bits….

Go test ride a Trek fuel EX9 and see what you’ve been missing 🙂

As said above – go out and try some, see if you like it. There are a bunch of demo days coming up where you can go try a few for half an hour, and I’m sure people will let you have a blat on theirs if you ask nicely. Make sure you don’t get anything less nice than your hardtail though, or you’ll hate it.

In answer to your question more specifically – because you want one 🙂

Try some out if you can. I went HT – FS – HT and love my HT now. But good forks and tyres make a world of difference.

I’d suggest trying out some nice HTs as well.

You can try loads of different demos in your neck of the woods
Keswick Mountain Bikes
Wheelbase

should get you started

From a purely objective POV suss bikes make sense for off road riding. They’re as light now as a lot of hardtails, they’ll go faster, corner better, climb better, stop better, and be more comfy, and the systems are getting cleverer, and lasting longer. There’s lots to enjoy about them.

They do however isolate one from the trail to a certain extent, which is why I think a lot of folk go back to hardtails, half the fun (for me at least) is balancing my bike between going round the corner, and scrubbing out, or making that steep steppy climb that I know I can just sit and pedal up on a suss bike. Think hard about what you enjoy most about your biking.

I’m with Nickc on that one – that’s why I went back to HT.

…or have both a FS and a HT? It’s not a case of one or the other.

Sounds like a 5in to 6in full-susser could be just what you need. So many good ones around, not much point singling one or two out.

Go to a couple of bike shops, try a few out, find a shop you trust and that will give you a good deal.

If I was doing most of my riding in the Lakes, one thing I would want is a bolt-through axle fork to help keep the front wheel going where I wanted it to over all those rocks.

try some out. maybe try and demo different amounts of travel too.

i now have a hardtail again after 5 years or so, and the plan is to use it for the majority of my local riding and for something different. i still have a susser though, a longer travel one, for those trips away and rockier rides

Welcome.

I’ve got a FS, HT and SS, and love them all. Def get a FS if you can afford it. My only advice would be to not bother going all boutique and bling. Technology has moved on so much in recent years that you can’t really go wrong with something like a Specialized Stumpjumper or Trek as they are great bikes and you get brilliant value for money.

My mate has just bought a Spesh Stumpy Comp 08 in the sale for £1200. It’s got an M5 frame, Fox Float forks, Sram x9, avid juicy brakes. I can’t believe how much bike he got for the money – and all this coming from a man who’s FS frame cost £1500 (Turner 5 Spot). If I ever had to replace mine, I would probably go with a Spesh.

Stu.

Cheers all, food for thought.

Demo bikes are my next step, but need to choose carefully at £40/half day (KMB) so want to make sure I get as much info as possible first. Budget could go as far as £1500 perhaps, depending on she who must be obeyed. Don’t fancy anything too heavy.

For those who said about tyres being important- any suggestions for my HT for lakes riding as my Panaracer FireXC pro (2.1’s) are getting tired. Rocky, not muddy routes, occasional scree and tree roots. Need to be able to do the roady bits between sections adequately.

Read your post, skipped the rest and here’s the news: Keswick has some great fullsus type trails right on the doorstep. Go buy an Orange 5 and get stuck in. Sorted.

Why shoud you buy a full susser?

You shouldn’t if you don’t want one.

Try out loads of bikes of every kind you can get a test ride on, then buy the one you like best no matter what make or "catergory" it fits into.

Try before you buy.

Not sure you should bother really. I was excited about getting a Yeti 575, but pretty much always ride my Stiffee, its just more fun.

Having ridden full suss for 10 years I’ve gone back to a hardtail with no regrets. It makes climbs easier, less maintenance, more fun on downhills :o)

Simon – How are climbs easier on a hardtail? I find technical climbing much easier on a FS bike.

"Sounds like a 5in to 6in full-susser could be just what you need."
"Go buy an Orange 5 and get stuck in. Sorted"

I’m not so sure. You’re used to riding a 4"? travel hardtail with fire XC 2.1"s on.
Do demo some full-sussers to give you an idea about what you’d be getting, but diving straight into the mid weight ones isn’t going to give you the best impression.

100mm full sussers seem to have been marketted at XC racing in very recent years, though maybe they’d be more suitable if you don’t want to suddenly find climbs being a lot more of a drag, and they’ll still be very capable bikes downhill, just less so than higher travel bikes
(e.g. Santa Cruz Superlight, Trek top fuel, specialized epic, giant anthem X, marin (can’t remember its name), scott spark, cannondale scalpel/rush, Kona Four)

Trying something with 120-130mm travel that has a sigificant increase in travel without losing too much climbing ability or gaining masses more weight would be sensible I reckon.
[e.g. spesh stumpjumper FSR, trek fuel EX, Gary Fisher Hifi, marin mount vision, giant trance X, cannondale rize, Kona One20]

Diving straight into 140-150mm bikes from a 100mm hardtail could well be a bit of a let down. Typically a lot more weight (than your merlin), shorter top tubes and slacker angles will compromise climbing and while they will descend incredibly well, you have to really want that to be able to live with the extra burden on the ups I think. Though they will still climb well, they won’t by comparison to your merlin.
[e.g. Spesh Pitch/Enduro, Trek Remedy, Gary Fisher Roscoe, Marin RAGE, Giant Reign, Cannondale Prophet, Scott Genious, Kona Dawg, Orange 5, Commencal meta 5.5, Lapierre Zesty, Santa Cruz Blur LT/Heckler, Yeti 575 …]

——————-

Having said all of that, a nicer fork and some tyres with a bit more volume may be all the change you need? Swalbe Nobby Nic 2.25", Panaracer Cinder 2.25", Maxxis Advantage 2.1" eXception 62a folding, Kenda Nevegal DTC 2.1", … some suggestions

I also went HT, FS,HT, FS and now back on a HT. I prefer HT’s but went FS the first time because I fancied it, back to HT when I realised HT’ing was more fun and then started riding bigger stuff so kept bursting tubes so went back to FS as a cure. It did cure the puncture bit but took away a lot of the excitment too so I went back to HT with beefier wheels and tyres etc.

I don’t think full sus is needed in the UK.

Hardtails are more difficult to control so need more skill and I maintain that full sus is a skill compensator.

IME, you have to ride a lot harder and faster on a full sus to get the same buz you do on a hardtail.

I do have a hardtail (456 summer season) and a full sus (s-works Enduro) but the hardtail does all the UK stuff. The enduro has only really been kept on for trips to France etc where I know the hardtail would be fine but the full sus is just more comfortable for 5 hours a day riding, oh, and I’m not good enough for out there either.

Save your money and bling up your hardtail with beefier wheels and tyres and better forks and a more freefidy frame.

I’d consider if you do really want one. If you’ve managed on a hardtail for 4 years have you ever walked round stuff and thought a different bike might help? I don’t rate riding faster, unless you’re racing it’s how fast it feels rather than how fast you’re actually going. For me full suss feels slower than a hardtail.

HAve you thought about just building up a new hardtail or changing bits on yours. Some 2.3" tyres make the world of difference to grip on corners and rough descents (I went from Fire xc pros to conti gravities (on offer on merlin NOW) and then back to fire xc pros for the mud in winter. The difference on cornering is very noticable. So much easier to ride technical stuff on bigger tyres because you corner and brake better.

It may be worth considering getting something of a more hardcore hardtail. There’s nothing on your list that can’t be done on one. Look at a dialledbikes Prince albert or alpine. On-one’s 456 or the cotic soul or BFe, or the orange P7 or the santacruz chameleon, the list goes on. Plenty of people on here with them. Bigger fork up front but still all the traits of a hardtail.

If you do go down the full suss route make sure when you demo you spend the time to set it up properly. I hired a few abroad that weren’t and it completely killed the bike and they felt rubbish. Far too squishy and absorbed all my effort on the climbs bobbing around.

I’d look around the 5" mark (it’s what I’ve looked at in the past). Ones I liked the look of were the COtic Hemlock (for adjustability if you head off to the alps or a days hard riding on something that really pushes you). Orange 5 for simplicity. Santacruz because they look loverly. Specialized Pitch, for bargaintastic suspension that works or Giant for cheapness and suspension that works (trance).

Went from HT to a Giant NRS after doing a 24hr and having a sore bottom and back at the end of the race!! Now am enjoying an Anthem 1 which is very speedy on the ups and lovely on the downs (Masters XC and social rider).
As others have said – try some and enjoy!

TomB, I just went through the same thoughts that you are! I live not so far from you and recently upgraded to a Meta55 and never looked back!

The talk of FS being a skill compensator is true to an extent. It does allow you to climb up technical trails you wouldn’t be able to on a HT, or descend faster on trails you’d previously carried down. But that certainly isn’t a bad thing! Unless you are a world class rider, you need that help in the lakes!!

The weight issue is another point, a FS bike will be (unless you pay a fortune) heavier. But could you argue that a lighter bike is just a fitness compensator?

I personally have noticed that with FS, I’m out on the trails longer, I fall off less, I go faster, I still scary myself silly and I smile more….

In terms of your situation, you’ve two choices buying a full bike, or buying a frame. I went with the frame from KMB, which in hindsight I paid over the odds for and swapped my components over. I’d have been better selling my HT and buying a complete bike (probably from merlin cycles), but buying a frame would be the thing to do if the components on your HT are top notch and to replace them would cost a fortune.

As for testing a new bike, KMB are good, I took a bike out, did a north loop at whinlatter, popped back and swapped to a different bike and did the same whinlatter route again. all in a morning, so only £20. Biketreks in Ambleside are doing a demo day on the 7th feb I think, you need to book ahead but I think(?) its free. I’m pretty sure that Wheelbase are doing a demo day (also free?) either in feb or march, so I’d definitely have a go on some of their bikes aswell.

The whole FS thing took a bit of getting used to, but something like the Orange 5 with adjustable forks is perfect for the lakes. It sounds like you’ve already made a decision, you’re just looking for justification?! FS is the way to go!

Demo bike is the only way to find out. Ride as many as you can, friends bikes too, hardtails and FS. Don’t expect a FS to be any better. Don’t be seduced by the hype. I’m sure many folks on here love their full sussers and rightly so, but they ain’t for everyone.

Put it this way, I have both, each built up with good kit.

I enjoy riding both, BUT if I had to choose only one to keep, it would always be the hardtail.

Id personally only have a FS if it was to go with a HT, but we are all different.

I got mine cause i moved from wales (hartail country imo) to the peaks.

The peaks i found far more abusive to ride on, speed sappingly so, riding became an endurance more than fun,
the trance is undoubtbly faster in everyway.
climbs quicker, descends quicker, crusies qucker on anything other than road. corners better due to better traction.
but in the same breath, theres nothing like having to maintain 10 pivots to irritate ones wallet, and it can make certain descents a little numb, more point and shoot than needing to be clinical with line choice.
i CERTAINLY wouldnt want any more travel, i think im at a nice level, where i can still feel the trail, but dont get bucked around so much on loose rocks.

(08 trance (1007mm) with Revs (100-130mm)

if i could have one bike, it would be a hardtail, no doubt about that.

Sorry to promote a rival mag but get yourself booked in on the Bike Radar demo days, line up a handful of 4″ and 5″ full sussers in a vareity of geometries and just go and have some fun with it.

Then come back and talk some more… 🙂

I’ve only had full sus for downhill and in later years had a hardcore hardtail for downhill. Demo xc steeds several times but just don’t find them as fun. Unless you’re old and ride lazily hardtails are so much more fun.

Taff, don’t entirely disagree, like many here, the correct answer (assuming you can afford it) is get both.

I’ve just gone back to HT in the form of a Genesis iO and love it – you couldn’t make me give up my Five though – different bike for different rides innit! 😀

I do like covering ground quickly and I personally find that best done on a FS…

TomB – tyres – I use Maxxis Advantage which have suited most (Keswick) conditions (bar the extreme mud I stalled in on High Rigg on Sunday).

Give me a shout if you fancy meeting up for a ride – I’m in the centre of Keswick – email parkedtigerATyahooDOTcom

“I don’t think full sus is needed in the UK.”

I agree that a sweet riding hardtail with an ace fork is probably the best overall UK trail bike: Cheaper, lighter, lower maintenance etc and fun.

But a lightish FS is faster and less tiring uphill, downhill and cornering because it forgives your mistakes, increases grip. I’ve stopped riding my weighty HT because it’s significantly slower and harder work. I would accept another HT over my TranceX, but it would have to be a lively sub 25lb with a 120mm air fork.

buzz – Your last line perfectly describes my Cove HJ now I’ve put some light wheels and a Reba Team with maxle on it. Seems like the perfect UK trail bike.

But then so does the Trance with Rev U-Turn I’ve just built up.

Neither is better – they just do the same thing differently – and I wouldn’t want to give either up.

I don’t think full sus is needed in the UK.

But I actually like riding mine. Is that OK ?

as everone else said test ride, can you make it to any of these places/dates?

http://demodays.bikeradar.com/

I mostly do rocky riding in the lakes and for me a burly full suss bike is definitely the best option – personally I am very happy plodding uphill fairly slowly then ragging it downhill as fast as I dare. My bike is perfect for that.

I will also be taking it to the alps in july – for me at the moment there is no way I can afford several bikes, so one bike that can do everything is ideal. Saying you don’t need full suss in the uk is a bit silly – you don’t need disc brakes either then, or front suspension, or gears.