Why not full length gear outers?

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  • Why not full length gear outers?
  • Premier Icon pedlad
    Subscriber

    I’ve been using the C456 with an array of mudguards in this gloop bu as I now have it in bits (to mend the hope hub) I thought I’d treat it to some new cables.

    Why on earth would you design it to have full outers apart from a 12inch exposed section down the seatstay? It has 2 cable stops there so obviously designed that way but a hell of a place to get dirt into the system.

    Being carbon I don’t fancy drilling them so has anyone put full outers on one – -no pun intended – and how, just zip ties?

    I drilled mine, the stops are alluminium aren’t they?

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    If you’re using decent cables it’s not much of an issue tbh. Some people reckon full runs are draggier than open ones, not really convinced of that either.

    PeterPoddy
    Member

    Just drill em out. I did.

    stoddys
    Member

    Having read a thread a few days ago, I bit the bullet and drilled mine today.

    Piece of cake, go on do it.
    I’m well happy, it was not carbon tho but aluminium.
    4mm drill then 6mm.

    Premier Icon pedlad
    Subscriber

    Haven’t got the old ones out yet but they seem to be all carbon to me, unless there’s an ali sleeve inside

    Bonkers I agree. Possible hangover from road bikes. Drill them and run full length.

    Gear changes don’t feel as smooth or as easy with a full outer cable. The Cotic take on it, with the exposed section on the top tube is probably better that the on one by the sounds of it though.

    Premier Icon pedlad
    Subscriber

    If you’re using decent cables it’s not much of an issue tbh. Some people reckon full runs are draggier than open ones, not really convinced of that either.

    No nor me considering the open section can only be under a quarter of the run.

    Will get the drill out I think…what’s the worst that can happen (apart from certain death)

    kcr
    Member

    Full outer on the rear for me on my MTB, and also on the commuter road bike. Much more reliable shifting through all the wet and crap of winter.

    rayyoung
    Member

    Pros and cons to both systems if you ask me. Full outer will get less crud in but sectioned outers can be moved along the inner so you can clean and lube it. Just you try putting a full outer back on an inner that’s been cut to length.

    Premier Icon ahwiles
    Subscriber

    my ‘new’ (2year old now) frame has cable stops, i thought this was going to be a nightmare.

    but it’s fine actually – it really is.

    My Rocky Mountain has the least amount of cable outer I’ve ever seen. handlebar to steerer tube and then from the back of the chainstay to the mech.

    I guess that as gear outer is ‘squashed’ the changes aren’t as crisp. However good the outer is, it’s going to add friction to the system. Finally (that I can think of), it costs far less to change the outer on my bike than my wife’s will full outers.

    Premier Icon Yak
    Subscriber

    Not fussed either way. Both require an element of maintenance and neither is particularly time consuming to do.

    daver27
    Member

    agree with somouk, used those for exactly that reason on an old Turner RFX, worked a treat.

    Drilling out the original guides not only damages the frame (making resale trickier, structually it’ll be fine) it also allows the cable outers to slip and migrate through them (usually to a big loop by the rear mech all primed and ready to grab a big stick) leading to all sorts of other issues.

    Premier Icon Mad Pierre
    Subscriber

    Never had a problem with muck getting in split cables – just use the XTR rubber thingys at the end of each section.

    chrismac
    Member

    I use gore cables so the wire is protected even in the open sections.

    hora
    Member

    I always run full outers regardless whether the ‘option’ is there or not. . The C456 was designed by a bloke over in the far east I think so he might not understand ‘mud’ as such 😀

    greenmeansgo
    Member

    Daft decision from On-One IMO. I nearly got a C456 – the cable runs are the reason I didn’t, as I didn’t want to bodge a new bike and zip tie the cables like I’d seen others do. Full length outers will be pretty much fit and forget, zero maintenance decision.

    Those hydroclamps or drilling both sound like good solutions.

    glasgowdan
    Member

    I’ve used full outers for years. Can’t understand any other way. Zero maintenance. I zip tie mine up and if I ever have to change bits over you can lift off the shifter/mech as one unit without fiddling with the cable.

    I’ve not had to lube, change or fiddle with gears all winter.

    Gear cables don’t seem to compress/squash in my experience unless you fit them badly. My bikes are smooth, gear changes are light and crisp. SP41 outer and 1.1mm cheap inners.

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    My Rocky Mountain has the least amount of cable outer I’ve ever seen. handlebar to steerer tube and then from the back of the chainstay to the mech.

    Like all frames with downtube cable runs then? ;?

    Never bothered myself, just change cables a bit more frequently. I’d have no real qualms about drilling them out though, an On-One won’t have carbon cable stops.

    mrmonkfinger
    Member

    1 zip tie through the existing cable stop.
    2 zip tie at right angles, through the 1st zip tie, and round the cable outer

    job done at no expense without drilling

    See if you like it better, buy some fancy schmancy cable tube thingies if you do.

    ndthornton
    Member

    After years and years of riding and lots of different bikes and setups – my conclusions of the most long lived, grot resistant, smooth shifting cable options is as follows…..

    Starting with the poorest…..

    4, Gore type with multiple outer cable runs and protected inner cable- Just never got on with these at all. Seems like a great idea in principle but I found it not particularly smooth from the start and didn’t last very long at all. Faffy, expensive and dont even bother trying to take them apart for cleaning without destroying them.

    3, Traditional Triple run outers- cheap and simple, work great for a time but deteriorate quickly in wet conditions.

    4, Full outers- Not as smooth as traditional but last much longer in wet conditions.

    5, Cotic style split top tube + single run to the mech – Best of both worlds – just as effortlessly smooth as traditional. I dont know how long they last for as the set I put on 3 years ago still feels like new and I haven’t touched them.

    Of course buying quality XT or XTR cables is a must.

    Premier Icon FOG
    Subscriber

    I had full length outers on the last bike but current one has split outers which I have put Middleburn cable oilers in. This seems to work really well if you remember regular squirts of GT85.

    Premier Icon FOG
    Subscriber

    I had full length outers on the last bike but current one has split outers which I have put Middleburn cable oilers in. This seems to work really well if you remember regular squirts of GT85.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    glasgowdan – Member

    I’ve not had to lube, change or fiddle with gears all winter.

    See, I have one bike with full outers, the rest are all some variation of somewhat to almost completely exposed… I’ve not had to lube, change or fiddle any of those either. Sealed cables were a gamechanger for this, it’s not like the Good Old Days.

    I honestly think this is one of those things where everyone just assumes the other way of doing it has more downsides than it really has. It’s always the wee bit of cable at the mech end that gums up (er, or I damage the cable in a crash)

    Enclosed is easier on the eye though

    Premier Icon seosamh77
    Subscriber

    sectioned outers can be moved along the inner so you can clean and lube it

    yip, lube the cables every 6 months or so and it’s not a problem.

    Mary Hinge
    Member

    As a direct comparison, I have two very similar road bikes, both with same groupset, but one with full outers (the commuter) and one with exposed inner sections.

    The one with exposed inners has a much lighter feel to gear changing, whereas the commuter feels heavier and stiff.

    I like to fettle my bikes, and prefer the exposed inners, as I can unhook the outer from the stops and slide the cable around and lube the inners easily.

    With full outers I lube thoroughly on assembly and normally get a “season” of riding before they need attention, when I just fit a new inner and lube thoroughly. I’m a tightwad so I save the rear mech inner to cut down and use as the front mech inner. 🙂

    I’m erring back towards favouring split outers.

    4130s0ul
    Member

    I’ve always run Avid Flak Jackets, the ferrules lead into what is effectively a long drinking straw. this keeps any flying debris or moisture off the cables and still keeps shifting slick. i’ve never had a problem with fitting them or any longevity issues

    glasgowdan
    Member

    You need 1.1mm inners when using full outers to get shifting perfectly light and crisp.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Subscriber

    I honestly think this is one of those things where everyone just assumes the other way of doing it has more downsides than it really has.

    Pretty much, well installed with quality parts is more important than split or fully enclosed

    campfreddie
    Member

    You guys ride your bikes in the wet?!?

    but the stops are on the headtube, not downtube, so no…

    Premier Icon Speshpaul
    Subscriber

    if you can pick up xtr style ferrals with the extended tube for the rubber to fit over, and get a length of 2mm heat shrink from maplins you can cover over the exposed bit quite cheaply.

    hora
    Member

    Mary Hinge- could it be that your angles are ‘sharper’ hence why its slightly stiffer on a road bike?

    On my mtb I’ve always run full outers and ‘relaxed’. I run a 2001 XTR rear mech and the shifting is precise and clear. The only time I have to change the inner is when I frame swap for a bigger or much smaller frame.

    Premier Icon st colin
    Subscriber

    I’m having this dilemma at the moment. I have just fitted a new inner and ferrules/rubber shields. Shifting is fine, apart from the top 2/3 gears(big cogs), it feels very tight through the shifter. Is this a cable run problem or a set-up problem?

    TiRed
    Member

    Full outer and hydraulic cable mounts on my Genesis. Since this is an Alfine hubbed bike, it makes conversion to SS very fast – shifter, cable and rear hub come off as a unit. SS wheel goes on. Shifting is just fine (for a hub gear), even in the heaviest mud.

    nicko74
    Member

    Interesting that a couple of people say Gore cables haven’t worked for them. Having got them, I don’t think I could ever go back – the “liner inside the main liner” element is the perfect workaround for stupid cable stops, and ensure the cable doesn’t get anywhere near the dirt.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    campfreddie – Member

    You guys ride your bikes in the wet?!?

    Very occasionally I even get to ride one in the dry!

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 44 total)

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