OH had some coil 32mm Pike 454s on his bike a while ago, they were **** shit. Like properly properly **** dangerously flexy point-in-a-random-direction shit. We punted them on and stuck some 35mm Suntours on it instead.

OH had some coil 32mm Pike 454s on his bike a while ago, they were **** shit. Like properly properly **** dangerously flexy point-in-a-random-direction shit.

Come on – they were decent forks. 20mm bolt through, 32mm stanchions. Many, many sets of pikes were ragged all over the world on decent technical terrain. 34/35/36mm stanchion forks are stiffer, but I’d never describe a pike 454 as pointing in a random direction… I’ve got a 9mm QR revelation on my DJ bike set at 100mm, run very firm. On a bmx gate there is a fair bit of flex in it (mainly due to my shit gate technique), but it is fine on trails.

Some real nonsense on here. I’ve been riding mtbs since the late 80s and the bikes now are better than anything from previous eras, and it’s mainly due to the geometry.

I can’t see how anyone thinks the trails haven’t changed in this time. There’s loads of stuff you wouldn’t have even considered riding on anything other than a downhill bike from that era that we regularly ride now, yet are able to pedal back to the top. Go and ride Fifty Shades at BPW or something similar, on a 90s bike and tell me you wouldn’t rather be riding a modern enduro bike.

If you’re an STW pootler who rides bridleways and a bit of road in between then modern slack bikes are not for you. If you think that a bike with modern geometry takes away the fun then you’re not riding it fast enough or on the right type of trails.

As an aside the whole slack head angle makes it climb badly notion is just not true – as long as the seat angle is steep then climbs are fine on a slack bike. My Mega with a 63.5 degree head angle climbs just as well as my 70 degree XC bike in terms of the body language needed.

JP

JP

I can’t see how anyone thinks the trails haven’t changed in this time. There’s loads of stuff you wouldn’t have even considered riding on anything other than a downhill bike from that era that we regularly ride now, yet are able to pedal back to the top. Go and ride Fifty Shades at BPW or something similar, on a 90s bike and tell me you wouldn’t rather be riding a modern enduro bike.

I’ve no idea what “fifty shades” is but y’know what? back in the 90s I was a DHer. Pretty much lived for it. Rode DH every weekend and dug and rode (a mix of road, BMX, HT and DH) midweek. but come winter I’d ride a 100mm hardtail. On the same DH tracks. Those included Scottish and Welsh DH tracks incl. Gethin. (now re-branded as BPW), innerleithen and the Golfie but a lot of lesser known (hidden/shady) handbuilt super technical short DH as well.
I chose to ride a hardtail as it was easier to push/ride up in shit conditions but also I believed it would improve/sharpen my handling skills as well as being less maintenance. (DH bikes back then could be a ballache for maintenance and spares)
Despite now owning a 170mm enduro bikes, a 120/140mm lightweight slopestyle bike, a 170mm E-Enduro bike and 2 DH bikes I still do enjoy riding a 100mm hardtail (4X bike) at places like Inners and the golfie and many other Scottish enduro haunts. It adds to the challenge and means there’s very few dull moments.
There are definitely more trails being built and a lot of the handbuilt trails are to a high technical/skills standard. but only if you’re comparing them to XC or trail centre tracks.

I honestly don’t believe UK tracks have gotten any steeper or rougher or more technical than the stuff I rode back then but what I do believe has actually changed with the popularity of enduro and the phenomenon of spods in gogs everywhere riding massively capable modern bikes? The death of drops and gaps. Pretty much every UK Enduro track is devoid of a decent jump or drop so punters can skid down safely. I know there are bike parks now that cater to jumpers but that’s really not what we’re talking about. Most of these folk wouldn’t hit a big jump line no matter what bike you gave them.

I do actually agree the standard of rider has risen in all cycling disciplines. (road, CX, XC, DJ, BMX, DH and Enduro) but I’m not talking about the mainly middle aged users with nice bikes here who’ve now had a skills course but the 15-30yr olds bracket who are out riding all the time and loving it (on any bike).

Quick question; Do you actually do any technical climbing on your Mega? or like most Endurbros is it mainly trail centre/fireroad climbing to access the terain it was designed for?

Ps. @Molgrips. Go and find a mid 90s DH WC track and try and ride it (fast). I think you’d be very surprised at both the technicality, speed and roughness. Even Ft William (it wasn’t a WC track until 04 but it existed pre-’00) is manacured TF and tweaked to “look” good compared to the ropey old ’97-99 track.
Tomac was also an XC World champ so even if you can fire up your time machine I really don’t think some middle aged tool from the future off STW on a modern Nukeproof mega would have troubled him too much in flat twisty woods on his rigid bike.

I honestly don’t believe UK tracks have gotten any steeper or rougher or more technical than the stuff I rode back then

Maybe not DH courses – but the local woods are filling up with steep techie home-made trails, and it’s these that are being ridden. Which means that the average recreational rider (i.e. not DHer) is riding more difficult tech than they were. Which stands to reason because there is more of it and the bikes make it easier.

Tomac was also an XC World champ so even if you can fire up your time machine I really don’t think some middle aged tool from the future off STW on a modern Nukeproof mega would have troubled him too much in flat twisty woods on his rigid bike.

I know, I was talking specifically about DH.

Even Ft William (it wasn’t a WC track until 04 but it existed pre-’00) is manacured TF and tweaked to “look” good compared to the ropey old ’97-99 track.

Ha, I remember riding that after the first World Cup there 2001?. Can’t remember all the bikes we had but one was a full suss Carrera with the steepest head angle in the world and no damping, a couple of XC hard tails and a 222 or Patriot?
I was fortunate enough to have a Santa Cruz Bullit.

As an aside the whole slack head angle makes it climb badly notion is just not true – as long as the seat angle is steep then climbs are fine on a slack bike. My Mega with a 63.5 degree head angle climbs just as well as my 70 degree XC bike in terms of the body language needed.

nonsense.

Does LLS suit bikes that are aimed at taking on descents with ease, rather than operating better as general all rounders (from pootling around with the family/kids and bridleway bashing through to XC and maybe a bit more)?

Referencing the comment from Cy at Cotic re the original Solaris working quite well with rigid forks but the longshot version being very much a hardtail (and also looking a bit odd with a rigid fork)

Maybe not DH courses – but the local woods are filling up with steep techie home-made trails, and it’s these that are being ridden.

Where do you think UK DHers have always gone to practice?
They simply weren’t publicised way back

Ha, I remember riding that after the first World Cup there 2001?.

Think you might be right. 2001 or 2002. I was getting my dates confused with the Kovarik domination in 04. (the track had already gone under loads of alterations/work by then.)
The first BIG race there was the avalanche cup in 99/00 and that’s pretty much the prereqisite for what put it on the map for the WC.

Come on – they were decent forks. 20mm bolt through, 32mm stanchions. Many, many sets of pikes were ragged all over the world on decent technical terrain. 34/35/36mm stanchion forks are stiffer, but I’d never describe a pike 454 as pointing in a random direction… I’ve got a 9mm QR revelation on my DJ bike set at 100mm, run very firm. On a bmx gate there is a fair bit of flex in it (mainly due to my shit gate technique), but it is fine on trails.

They were good compared to the OE Indy I had BITD but I was (at the time) comparing them to the 35mm Suntours on my bike. I used his bike for a DH race once (at his behest) and the forks just noodled, relatively, all over the shop. Complete bobbins. The 32mm Epicons I have in the spares pile are stiffer.

I know, I was talking specifically about DH out my arse.

😉

Geex is talking a lot of sense!

One thing that supports both sides of the argument – watch this:

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/ben-cathro-dh-savagery-v10-29.html

His old bike looks like a BMX under him but despite it being tiny he’s still going for it. But then that new bike absolutely flies (and looks like a medium-sized 26” V10, not an XXL 29”, because he’s crazy tall).

“the forks just noodled, relatively, all over the shop. Complete bobbins. The 32mm Epicons I have in the spares pile are stiffer”

Knackered/oversized bushings?

No idea, maybe, but they were still shit 😆

GeoMetron LLS

Very neat bikes and veeery “LLS”. And lots of love for these bikes.

But at the same time … – this very long wheelbase makes those bikes (like Nicolai Geometron bikes as well) way too stable? Those bikes are niche bikes in my view. Great for some bikers. Great for some trails. But for many bikers “too LLS”…?

Haha

I find most climbing monotonously dull whether riding an oldskool XC hardtail or 170mm carbon derp.
to ease the monotomy do you think I should buy a Pole machine or an Ebike?

😉

[edit] I actually enjoy technical climbing. the less suitable the bike the more technical it becomes.
(once I’ve cleaned a really difficult climb i’ll happily walk it from then on to eternity tho)

neat

I realise english might not be your native language but there’s no way you can use this word to describe anything about an industrial looking Geometronanonanon

😉

I think the machine would make me laugh more than smile 😉

what’s “Quack quack” in German?

😉

Where do you think UK DHers have always gone to practice?

There’s more of them now and many more people rising them, that was my point.

Most riders I know including myself ride LLS enduro bikes for DH (lift or fireroad climb) and dirt jumping (which they are surprisingly good at).

I thought the ‘low’ bit was so the fat old blokes buying these bikes can get their leg over the top tube remounting after walking through a technical section?

@geex I remember riding my 120mm hardtail at a Gethin uplift day sometime in the noughties – it felt OK, but my knees didn’t work properly for the following week. Since its been BPW, I have mostly avoided the rock garden.

jumpers for goalposts? Wasn’ it? isn’ it?

😉

Never been to BPW but spent loads of time digging and riding at Gethin back then. I’ve always wondered what of the old tracks still remains and what hilariously quirky names they now have.

I thought the ‘low’ bit was so the fat old blokes buying these bikes can get their leg over the top tube remounting after walking through a technical section?

haha
Did the sales guy try to convince you with this…?

My medium slackificated Zesty (angle set, long fork, chipped rear shock)

My super slack Dune, any slacker and it would be claiming benefits and slinking off for a smoke behind the bike sheds

Both are a LOT of fun to ride 😉

@geex Not really sure what you’re saying, other than ‘I used to ride it on a rigid wheelbarrow and I was still faster than anyone on here.’

There are plenty of technical climbs that I ride regularly when I’m doing natural stuff on the Mendips. Perhaps my early 90s Merlin titanium would be quicker up them than my Mega, but the bike never stops me from riding them, and it’s much better at everything else.

You sound a bit angry, like the Northern bloke I met the other day at a bikepark, who I’m sure is from this forum. What’s the issue?

JP

Angry?
why would I be angry? I love riding bikes and geeking out about them. you’ll never find me angry on a bike or a bike forum ever, I’m certainly not northern and haven’t been to a bikepark since June (and it wasn’t in the UK)
I was genuinely interested in whether you did any technical climbing on it, being an enduro bike. that’s all.
not sure where you think I said I was faster on a hardtail than the DH bike or a modern FS bike. would be kinda pointless ever owning anything else if that was the case.
All I was saying is a 100mm hardtail is a perfectly capable bike and I still happen to enjoy riding them.

not sure where you think I said I was faster on a hardtail than the DH bike or a modern FS bike.

You do have a tendency to present yourself as the David Hasselhoff of mountain biking. I imagine you looking a bit like this.

montgomery

Member
I thought the ‘low’ bit was so the fat old blokes buying these bikes can get their leg over the top tube remounting after walking through a technical section?

As one of the blokes you describe (more or less) I can say definitively that it is the dropper that allows this more than the geometry.😁

Banksy?

Is that you?

You do have a tendency to present yourself as the David Hasselhoff of mountain biking.

Hahah.
“LLS and emotions”…an never ending fight!

veryL,L,S is bad?
L,veryL,S is good?
L,L,veryS is good?
and and and and
LLS is boring?

Ha! Glad it’s not just me that drops their saddle to make remounting easier! Getting older every day…