Why dont office workers etc,work 12 hour shifts

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  • Why dont office workers etc,work 12 hour shifts
  • Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    I worked compressed hours- a 35 hour week in 3 or 4 days- for a while. It suited me pretty well but I was definately getting less done, as the day went on I got less productive for sure.

    stumpy01
    Member

    Wherever I have worked, the production staff have got paid overtime, whereas the office staff have to do it for the love of the company.
    Place I worked a few yrs ago had me regularly doing a bit of overtime in the week and then asking (pressuring) me on a Friday afternoon to come in at the weekend and help production reach the numbers – 8 to 4 Sat & Sun was frequent enough to be annoying and without pay.

    In a production environment, the factory costs money. Millions is often invested into capital equipment so to recoup the cost, the factory needs to run as many hours as possible.
    In the office side of the business however, the main cost to the company is the salary of the employees. So as long as the work is done, it doesn’t make sense for the staff to do more than their contracted hours (although of course many do without payment).

    Premier Icon maccruiskeen
    Subscriber

    Child care and generally having a life…

    As a bit of a detour… Why don’t children ‘work’ office hours and why do they have summer holidays? It seems to me that they aren’t required to bring in the harvest any more so why do their hours and holiday entitlements not match their parents?

    Premier Icon nano
    Subscriber

    @ LMT

    Good point.. When I started in stores you could rock up at 845 and be out by 545 with paid breaks and lunch.. That was 30 years ago mind you.. Now it’s typically a 12 hour day plus for most managers..

    BTW not suggesting shop staff can p**s furthest.. most sectors in the UK work longer than their oppo’s in France or Spain..

    That said it beats the US where I ‘enjoyed’ the sum total of two weeks annual leave each year

    poly
    Member

    project – Member
    Poly , but thats just stupid, its doing someone out of a job, and getting work done on the cheap.

    This isn’t communism you know. I’m not doing someone out a job – I’m keeping MY job – there are plenty of other people who would happily take my salary. In the real world there is a finite budget to get my work done…

    Yep instead of 3 shifts of 8 hours you then have 2 shifts of 12 hours so youve lost one shift and all those staff.

    eh? I thought you were trying to increase the number of people in work a moment ago. I’m not sure you’ve actually understood shift patterns though – when you move from 3x8hr shifts to 2×12 hr shifts you don’t get rid of any staff; there is still a limit to how many hours people can/will work.

    Your example of call centres is not a good comparison. A typical call centre will not have the same number of staff at 3am and 3pm. Depending on the business it can employ people on ‘short’ day contracts (e.g. 5pm-9pm) to meet consumer demand. – as a result they may not have less people commuting – just people commuting at different times. Since public transport is crap at unusual times, this forces people into cars.

    Why don’t children ‘work’ office hours and why do they have summer holidays?

    I’d guess that the ability to learn is affected by trying to do too much in one day – although after school clubs / wraparound care etc probably contradict that a bit; however the teachers unions would never agree to longer hours and hiring more teachers would be much more expensive that the ‘low cost’ supervision staff employed by out of school clubs. I’m not convinced that the “long” summer holiday is a bad thing, fatigue is certainly starting to show in both teacher and pupil by the end of June!

    Premier Icon maccruiskeen
    Subscriber

    I’d guess that the ability to learn is affected by trying to do too much in one day

    During my time at secondary school in the 80’s our school day was shortened from a 4.30 finish to a 3.30 finish then a 3.15 finish. Non of the lesson times were reduced but the number of breaks we had were reduced and shortened.

    timc
    Member

    pfft working hours, I live my job, always switched on, only way it can be!

    Premier Icon maccruiskeen
    Subscriber

    I live my job, always switched on, only way it can be!

    You and me both! Those toilets won’t clean themselves. But you can’t just blame the cistern Tim.

    andypaul99
    Member

    Office/shop worker here. I work from 8am to 7 pm on average 5.5 days per week , lunch break is eating a sandwich on the move and swigging coffee from time to time. When I drive past a factory in our local industrial estate there are always groups of people sitting outside in the sun eating sarnies at lunchtime, the factory’s also closed at weekends. That’s my impression of factory work – sure you work 12 hour shifts but with 3 breaks and 2 days off a week…I wish!

    hora
    Member

    Is this a joke topic?

    Alot of office workers DO work 12hrs a day. ….and only get paid upto 5.30.

    The workload, culture etc.

    I used to work in head office retail and there were always people working to Midnight to ‘get it done’.

    No time off in leui or 4 on 4 off.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Well I’ve done office work with anything from 7:30 start to 6pm finish 5 days a week, Also done my 37hrs in 4 days and many other variants.

    Also when you add it all up most systems result in the same amount of work completed in a year.

    A lot of “office” work isn’t something that the next person can pick up either.

    Also why would I pay office staff a shift bonus when it’s not needed?

    A point well made several times a lot of industrial process’s either need to be kept running or involve very expensive equipment that needs to have a high utilisation to make it viable.

    JonEdwards
    Member

    I work in an industry (freelance based) where a 12 hour day is the standard. It’s a mix of manual labour and brain based stuff – fault finding, programming etc. The last couple of hours of a day, 99% of the staff, even the best ones have slowed down mentally – finding simple wiring faults can take much longer than it should and tempers are usually frayed. The ones who are still capable of working flat out physically are usually chemically enhanced. Don’t get me started on day-and-a-halfs and double days. Utterly pointless.

    A 12 hour day, plus 8 hours sleep leaves 4 hours left over. Add an hour of journey time in each way and your left with 2 hours to eat and have a life. That’s not something sustainable on a 5-day a week basis.

    mogrim
    Member

    most sectors in the UK work longer than their oppo’s in France or Spain..

    Not sure about that, despite the reputation the Spanish work very long hours.

    mattzzzzzz
    Member

    Cant beleive the OP said shopwork, traditionally the checkout staff etc do PT or FT Hours but I think you will find Managers do way more than they are supposed to , were talking a 50 hour week minimum upto around 70 hours, I know a lot of guys who work for the big 4 plus others who work for the smaller retailers and its all the same, sometimes you win most of the time you dont

    Premier Icon breadcrumb
    Subscriber

    I’m a manual worker, a fabricator, and I work 8:30-17:30.

    Now and again we have to do longer days, but the thought of working in my environment 12 hours a day 5 days a week is not a pleasant one.

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    I”ve worked 12 hour shifts for over 20 years now, not an office worker well not unless it’s one of my days to be in the office. One of the reasons they brought them in is you need a 1/3 less staff. As we need 24 hours of cover then it makes it easy to have staff average out to a 37.5 week. Currently we get a 4 days extra holiday a year but they’re wanting to change that so you work 1 less shift per 10 weeks or so.

    It could work for office workers too but it’ll be a little harder to implement.

    A 12 hour day, plus 8 hours sleep leaves 4 hours left over. Add an hour of journey time in each way and your left with 2 hours to eat and have a life. That’s not something sustainable on a 5-day a week basis.

    8 hours sleep. That would be nice.

    Premier Icon cheese@4p
    Subscriber

    Hands up who’s in the office right now?
    Me for one
    It’s tough at the top! 😆

    ojom
    Member

    We should be aiming to work less hours and being more productive when we do work.

    I could never stand the Office Heroes when I was working, you know the types who come in early and stay late for no extra money. Idiots.

    Premier Icon Drac
    Subscriber

    Hands up who’s in the office right now?

    I’m lying in bed trying to get a few hours sleep before going back to work tonight.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Hands up who’s in the office right now?
    Me for one
    It’s tough at the top!

    Yep but that is just the basement of the house – points off for being in the office and on STW

    Agree on the more from less, used to work places where hours in the office was valued more than actual achievement.

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    @project – all rather vague there, “seems”

    A lot of private sector office workers do 8-12 hours a day especially those with their own businesses. A good number of manual type workers are paid by the hour so they work longer for more money. FWIW if you count my commute I’m out of the house for 14-16 hours a day.

    If the UK hadn’t opted out of the working time directive we’d all be doing only 35 hours a week, not very good for lifestyle as we’d be paying so much more for things and earning less that we’d have no money to enjoy our leisure.

    Premier Icon smartay
    Subscriber

    What I dont understand is that I work a 42.2hour week taking into account of my annual holiday,4×12 hour shifts so actual working week 48hours.
    Whereas my wife works a 37,4 hour week with all her holidays on top- so actual working week 37.4!!!!

    atlaz
    Member

    I used to work longer office hours Monday-Thursday but could leave at noon on Friday. This sounded awesome at the interview but in practice what it means is half a day sitting on the couch or doing laundry or what have you because all your mates are at work (this was before I got back into cycling).

    trail_rat
    Member

    well we do more than the dutch.

    the dutch get HAMMERED on tax for anything over their contracted hours.

    “used to work places where hours in the office was valued more than actual achievement.”

    you worked in my office then ? 😀

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    Good article on hours worked / efficiency here – the trend for long hours is relatively recent.
    http://www.salon.com/2012/03/14/bring_back_the_40_hour_work_week/

    Personally I’m paid for a 37.5 hour week, but probably only have about 6 productive hours a day in me, the rest is just ‘stuffing’. Pretty much all my good ideas (about work) occur outside of the office e.g. when cycling home or whilst out running.

    trail_rat
    Member

    oh yes footflaps your not wrong there.

    I have all my technical problem solving brain farts when im riding home and my mind is in wandering mode.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    I’m a manual worker, a fabricator

    Does that mean you make up lies? Can we believe anything you say?

    Having worked both 8 and 12 hour days/nights, I find the twelve hour shift much easier and felt more switched on/productive if I stopped doing one sort of thing and switch to something different half way through. Obviously that depends on what you do for a living, but I coped fine with, say 8 hours of meetings/managment/paperwork/admin followed by four hours of working clinically out on the ward or on home/crisis visits. Or vice versa. Not nearly as good if I did a solid 12 hours of either one or the other.

    There was something on radio 4 last night about longer hours/days and productivity/value for money from your workers’ wages: apparently in manufacturing/production/skilled manual work, the Americans are the benchmark of good productivity! I suppose I was suprised at that. It turns out that other countries’ productivity is often measured as a percentage of the Americans, ie Greece 52%, UK 80-something percent, France 94%. (French only do a 35 hour week whereas Greeks typically work way more than that btw.)

    I regularly did 12 hr shifts and more when I worked in a poxy will-to-live-sucking office. 7:30am to 7:30pm and more. I hated it.

    Meanwhile, many years ago I worked 12 hr shifts on building sites in London. I loved it!

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    I wanna know when banks are going to have reasonable opening hours, every other high street service sector business seem to be open either early or late or both so you can actually fit it around your work. Banks open late close early and only do half a job at weekend if at all (and IMcurrentE do a crap job when they are open)

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    I wanna know when banks are going to have reasonable opening hours

    Why would they extend their hours when we have to do less and less stuff in-branch?

    What are you actually needing to do in the branch?

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    What are you actually needing to do in the branch?

    prove my ID, get an account opened properly when the call centre applications team screw up, get some of my money when the apps team don’t send you your card in a timely manner. Oh I can’t have any of my money cause the apps team are still mucking around with my account. Great cheers well done.

    not a happy banking customer at the moment.

    Once an account is setup yeah most stuff can be done quickly and efficiently online or over the phone but there’s still plenty of stuff you need to do in branch, normally when there is a problem and you really need help, bad time for the holders of your money to be working (comparatively) very limited hours.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Fair enough, setting up accounts isn’t something you need to do that often. Doesn’t seem worth it to spend the extra money keeping branches open all across the land just for that. I wouldn’t want fees increased for that.

    I have hardly ever needed to go into a branch. Only to pay in cheques, and they are fast disappearing. I want to talk to Nationwide about mortgages, and annoyingly they want me to go into their branch 🙁

    konabunny
    Member

    I’m a desk jockey and I very often work 12 hour shifts. No TOIL, no overtime, no trades holidays. Last month I made on a per hour basis min wage + $1. I’m an idiot.

    I could never stand the Office Heroes when I was working, you know the types who come in early and stay late for no extra money. Idiots.

    There seem to be two categories at our office: those who take pride in their work and end up ploughing their lives into ther bosses’ profits, and those who don’t GAF. They both get paid the same. 🙁

    2-shift system suck. 3-shift systems are where it’s at.

    You only need shifts if you are operating 24/7 plant, such as production lines, drilling rigs and spacecraft. You wouldn’t work shifts by choice.

    Premier Icon smartay
    Subscriber

    Another side to this is the fact that we are having to work longer due to our “projected life exspecancy”, 82 years according to my pension statement.
    As mentioned earlier I work 12hour shifts which I started nearly 20years ago. I find that i am not quick in getting up of nights not able to fit in what I used to around work then how will I and industry cope with the majority of the workforce over 65.

    glasgowdan
    Member

    I don’t think we as humans should work such long hours. It is detrimental to family life and mental wellbeing. I run my own business in a physical role and generally work 0730-1700 plus 2 hours admin a day, but the ideal would be 8-3 plus 1 hour, which I am aiming for next year (call it streamlining if you like). I don’t consider an office vs physical job a class issue. I know I may be considered middle working class if income alone is the basis of deciding such factors, but it’s not. It comes down to your choices in life, the way you spend, think and carry yourself.

    I have had enough of the earning phase and want to relax into the ‘enjoy life’ phase, because I can, and because I want to. I’d like to see unpaid office overtime become a thing of the past and thus improve the health and happiness of the working population.

    konabunny
    Member

    You only need shifts if you are operating 24/7 plant, such as production lines, drilling rigs and spacecraft.

    Markets are 24/7 too though – between Sydney, London and New York, between my colleagues and me we’re always working. It’s crap. 🙁

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    I could never stand the Office Heroes when I was working, you know the types who come in early and stay late for no extra money. Idiots.

    There’s another thing they do, that I’m never sure whether to laugh or cry… If you ask them why they do it, they say “Everyone does it”. I used to work in an office where everyone else from management to temps worked at most 30 minutes or so overtime a day, usually none, and claimed back every second. Except for one person who came in 30 minutes early, left 30 minutes late, took short lunches, never claimed a second, and said “Everyone else does it”. Mad, frankly.

    TheBrick
    Member

    how will I and industry cope with the majority of the workforce over 65.

    Well you probably will not be doing the same type of job at 65+. Working past 65 does not mean doing hte same thing you did at 40 years of age.

    project
    Member

    Well some intresting answers and as per usual office workers appear to work longer hours than theyre paid for, but probably spend more time on internet forums than manual workers who dont have access to computers,

    But still nobody from the desk comunity has explained why they dont work 12 hour shifts instead of 8 hour ones but keep reiterating the point they work over to keep their job, or to just keep ahead of the pile of work that appears.

    TheBrick
    Member

    But still nobody from the desk comunity has explained why they dont work 12 hour shifts instead of 8

    There have been several reasons given.

    Premier Icon jam bo
    Subscriber

    A 12hr shift implies there is someone doing the opposite shift.

    As far as I know there isn’t anyone taking over my desk when I’m not there.

    12hr shift wouldn’t be bad though. I’d have done my 30 hrs by weds lunchtime.

    trail_rat
    Member

    I do adhoc,

    8-4.30 most days but if im assigned to a project , offshore goes 24/7 im on call 24 hours when operational if im not already offshore..

    But then i a get paid more for it and b get time back for it.

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