• This topic has 256 replies, 104 voices, and was last updated 3 years ago by dan66.
Viewing 40 posts - 121 through 160 (of 257 total)
  • Why do so many cyclists on the road wear BLACK
  • UK-FLATLANDER
    Full Member

    It seems to me it’s just an extension of mainstream fashion, most men’s clothing is dark and boring. I used to be involved in outdoor retail and always preferred the ladies colours available. Trouble was if you put any colour in the men’s selection of clothing we would get comments like “It’s too girly”. Personally I don’t get it, I don’t define my gender by colour preference. Strange when in most of the rest of the natural world, the males tend to use flamboyant coloration.

    yoshimi
    Full Member

    I’d like like to see more side reflectors / shoulder lights (if that’s a thing!?) more than the actual colours they wear – actually had it the other night…raining, on a roundabout, car/street lamps reflecting off the windscreen and didn’t really notice the road biker at the side of me until he was there…and I’m someone that does actively scan around for cyclists

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    It seems to me it’s just an extension of mainstream fashion, most men’s clothing is dark and boring. I used to be involved in outdoor retail and always preferred the ladies colours available. Trouble was if you put any colour in the men’s selection of clothing we would get comments like “It’s too girly”. Personally I don’t get it, I don’t define my gender by colour preference. Strange when in most of the rest of the natural world, the males tend to use flamboyant coloration.

    TBH some of my favoured cycling wardrobe is verging on the ‘flamboyant’ side and yep it draws the odd comment when I get to work, to which I normally say, “well you saw me didn’t you” I still remember the old “be safe, be seen” campaigns from the late 80s(?)…

    I don’t buy the excuse that you can’t buy anything but black/drab clothing for riding a bicycle, because I never go out riding in an entirely black outfit myself…

    As for where any responsibility sits? Well obviously it sits primarily with drivers to look out for others.

    But there are people rolling about on road bikes (recent converts?) in the currently dwindling light conditions, who either barely meeting the minimum standards for illumination/reflectors, or indeed fall short, for whom cost clearly isn’t a barrier to making themselves more visible, who are comfortable relying on driver’s vigilance…

    That’s their choice I suppose…

    Of course if I were to go and unintentionally run down a winter ninja, I would definitely be pointing out their dark attire, lack of reflectors and/or lighting to the attending officer… Sorry.

    More lights and some colourful clothing would take that option away from a dozy driver…

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    Northwind
    Full Member

    I don’t, well, not except summer. But my commuting kit and lights mean I’m visible from space, and people still manage not to see me.

    And so much of what’s sold as visibility kit for bikes is rubbish tbf. Yellow =/ hi viz and in practice isn’t much better than black. Retroreflectives only on your logos is barely even better. And unfortunately a lot of the really visible stuff, like my 360 jacket, has other drawbacks like lacking breathability.

    I get more confused by people with expensive bikes and rubbish lights. The difference between a bottom end tesco light and even a half-decent modern LED is incredible. And the difference between one half-decent light and two is massive as well. You could be wearing an invisibility cloak and it’d make little difference once you add good lights.

    thols2
    Full Member

    Dressing up all colourful brings the problem of being mobbed by sex-crazed groupies, so dressing in black lets us get on with things in peace and quiet.

    greatbeardedone
    Free Member

    I agree with chromolyolly, movement plays a large part in visibility.

    As for (mainly) black leggings, it’s to make the big patches of sweat less visible.

    Also, it’s worth noting that once lockdown is wound down, the roads are going to be craaaazy!
    And that will apply even if you’re just getting out of your car at the supermarket or stepping off the pavement.

    Stay safe, folks.

    kerley
    Free Member

    You know there are study’s proving that hiviz doesn’t make an odds and in certain urban cases is worse than black

    We don’t all ride in urban settings, in fact I have not ridden in an urban setting for more than 10 years. I ride on B roads, many tree lined, loads of shade, no pavements or lights or road markings and many with dark banks or hedges.

    I am an observant driver and cyclists dressed in black can pretty much not be seen from 200 metres whereas a bright coloured cyclist can be seen easily and is hard to not spot. That gives the cyclist a lot more chance of actually being noticed before the driver is right behind them and then overtaking more out of last minute panic than any planned overtake.

    joepud
    Free Member

    I dont give a flying fig what you feel. Drivers avoid bigger things. JambaFact. Small cars look out for 4×4 sized cars , 4×4 look out for Transits , Transits look out for Tipper Lorries and Busses.

    I really like how you have made up a word in order to prove your “JambaFact.” By your logic a small vehicle has never caused an accident with a larger vehicle because “drivers avoid bigger things”. I figure when people resort to name calling (or replacing words that sounds like others) they know their argument has fallen apart. good job! 👍

    last week a car drove into a shop by where I live, the shops bigger than the car why didn’t the driver avoid it after all its a “bigger thing”

    lardman
    Free Member

    If I ever ride on the road (which is rare due to afformentioned idiot drivers) I wear a Pro-vis 360 gillet, which is very visible and am lit up like a Christmas tree with rear helmet and seat post mounted bike light.

    If they don’t see me, they wouldn’t have seen a police car on a call. No hope there.

    Shred
    Free Member

    You can always find colourful kit, but it is not as easy and most options are subdued or plain.

    When I first bought Ale, the options we like this kit in the wiggle review from 2015: https://blog.wiggle.co.uk/living-ale-cycle-clothing

    Now, all black with tiny accents: https://www.wiggle.co.uk/mens/ale/legwear?o=4&f=300394

    Same as mens outdoor kit. I bought the Fohn jacket in orange like this one. https://www.wiggle.co.uk/fohn-micro-down-hooded-jacket
    I get so many comments about being colourful. I always reply with “I never understand why everyone likes being in plain boring colours.”

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    last week a car drove into a shop by where I live, the shops bigger than the car why didn’t the driver avoid it after all its a “bigger thing”

    What colour was the frontage?

    I must admit, I feel uncomfortable riding on the road without a light and bright clothing, even in full daylight. Because I know how shit the drivers are around here.

    Had ‘castelli man’ pass me with no lights and low sun yesterday. Was surprised just how quickly I had trouble seeing him, even knowing he was up ahead.

    mrmoofo
    Full Member

    Wearing black is an issue – but down here, nr Brighton, nobody uses lights and they wear black. Obviously drivers in Sussex have cars equipped with night vision.

    Bez
    Full Member

    Fundamentally I think this all boils down to the fact that we’ve been socially conditioned to drive our cars faster than our cognitive capacity really supports, and deep down we know it, which is why we constantly look for ways to offload the blame onto someone else when we drive into them.

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    I used to be involved in outdoor retail

    Anyone else think “I had a Saturday job on a market”? 🤣

    I know that’s not what you meant

    joepud
    Free Member

    What colour was the frontage?

    Well you see here is the problem, It was a pretty crazy accident that thankfully happened at night and how no one was hurt was mental. The car took out a traffic light, street bike locks (you know those u shaped things) and then the shop… Admittedly the shops brown but did have its silver shutter down… what a conundrum! By Singletrackmind’s logic the driver was clearly trying to just hit the street bike lock because they are smaller than the other things. Im sure had the all these items been bigger than the card, had a car shaped light on them and been painted hi-vis yellow the accident would have never happened. 🤷‍♂️

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Was the shop wearing a helmet? If not, I hope the insurance payout is suitably reduced.

    DavidB
    Free Member

    I am an observant driver and cyclists dressed in black can pretty much not be seen from 200 metres whereas a bright coloured cyclist can be seen easily and is hard to not spot.

    lolz. Can anyone else see the problem with this sentence?

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    lolz. Can anyone else see the problem with this sentence?

    Car Lights are broken ? It’s not an issue I have but then I live on one of the few main cycling exits from the city and so see alot of cyclists -and see alsorts. It’s also a main road heading west so low winter sun I see.

    I’d much rather someone had working lights than wore red/high Viz. They bring something to the party 100% of the time. Even in low sun.

    feed
    Full Member

    I generally wear black or dark clothes on the commuter bike combined with powerful lights front\rear during day or night cycling. In really crappy weather I’ll add a reflective gilet or bag.

    I’ve done the whole bright colour thing and found that drivers pay less heed and are more likely to pull out in front of me when I’m in bright colours than when in dark colours, combined with bright lights. Not sure why, personal theory is that when driving (myself included) you sub consciously evaluate other traffic on a “threat” basis rather than just what is more visible. A cyclist in bright clothing is a sensible person therefore less of a physical threat.

    sirromj
    Full Member

    lolz. Can anyone else see the problem with this sentence?

    It’s displayed in black?

    john_l
    Free Member

    Fundamentally I think this all boils down to the fact that we’ve been socially conditioned to drive our cars faster than our cognitive capacity really supports, and deep down we know it, which is why we constantly look for ways to offload the blame onto someone else when we drive into them.

    Nail on the head. And the problem is, the “general public” a very happy to shift the responsibility away from them. “You weren’t wearing hi-viz, not my fault”.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    I’m happy to add my voice demanding a change in attitude from drivers who don’t give a shit, or are ignorant, unskilled, and complacent. That, after all, is the primary problem, and the primary cause of death and injury on our roads.

    At the same time, cyclists can take personal decisions about how they mitigate the risks from other humans with bad skills and attitudes. I wish I could be as relaxed about the deficiencies of the average motorist as some of the other cyclists I see, must be nice. But I guess that’s why I favour off-road riding.

    kerley
    Free Member

    lolz. Can anyone else see the problem with this sentence?

    It was my sentence so you will need explain the problem with it please.

    What I am saying is that I can see the cyclist in all black on a shaded B road but I am looking hard and can only just see them from a distance
    A cyclist in a bright colour stands out and I can see them very easily without having to look very hard.

    Making yourself harder to see is not that great an idea in my view.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Making yourself harder to see is not that great an idea in my view.

    +1

    It’s a choice. Personally I avoid dressing like tarmac when I go out riding esp on national speedlimit roads / lanes in winter.

    joepud
    Free Member

    It was my sentence so you will need explain the problem with it please.

    I think its that you called your self an observant drive but can’t really see something 200m away. Its a bit ironic.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    It’s a driech Aberdeen day today.

    I was driving along South deeside (shaded by trees so very grey ) on my way to the merchants to get some.materials.

    I met two cyclists coming towards me . Visible from a long long way away. I have no idea what they were wearing. Their lights made them visible in the conditions not their clothes.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    Their lights made them visible in the conditions not their clothes.

    Should cylists use day running lights?

    I don’t bother on my commuter, but always use them on my road bikes, costs nothing to use them.

    nwmlarge
    Free Member

    In the hierarchy of safety PPE is the last measure.

    I wear black or dark clothes as that’s what I like.

    I don’t ride in positions that leave me vulnerable.

    I would rather be alive than “right”.

    The motto of assuming everyone is an idiot and going to pull out on you makes life easier.

    I calculate risk constantly, I will ride in the middle of the lane through road works or past a bit of crap road that I know is coming up.

    I ride in Essex on rural and city streets as well as in London through some very busy locations.

    Hi-vis won’t make a blind bit of difference if you snake down the inside of a driver following sat nav.

    kerley
    Free Member

    I think its that you called your self an observant drive but can’t really see something 200m away. Its a bit ironic.

    I see the confusion. Being able to see something and being observant are not the same thing.

    Observant means I am actively looking ahead (rather than day dreaming or staring at my phone)
    The ability to see an object from a distance based on colour of that object is a different thing all together no matter how observantly I am driving.

    footflaps
    Full Member

    I see the confusion.

    What confuses me is despite all the threads about speed awareness courses and points, apparently all STW drivers are above average and perfect in every way…..

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    Should cylists use day running lights?

    I’d rather see that mandatory than the clothes I wear being mandated.

    Given DRLs are part of new cars.

    I habitually turn on the lights in all my old cars as it’s so ubiquitous now that a car with no lights could easily be mistaken for parked at a glance.

    Bez
    Full Member

    What I am saying is that I can see the cyclist in all black on a shaded B road but I am looking hard and can only just see them from a distance
    A cyclist in a bright colour stands out and I can see them very easily without having to look very hard.

    See, to me that just says, “when I drive, I don’t want to feel obliged to look very hard.”

    Which is true of all of us, don’t get me wrong. It’s a human trait. But again it’s right at the heart of the issue, and most people are in denial about it. Behavioural safety can’t really improve without acknowledging psychological/cognitive traits like this.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    There is a spectrum of dangerous driver running all the way from ‘don’t give a shit if you live or die’ to ‘really don’t want to hurt anyone but ignorant/incompetent/complacent’.

    Ideally, you’d manage to break into the bubble of people who can’t see why concentrating at the wheel is a good plan. But you won’t in many cases, because they’re also not concentrating on public safety messages, and, as posted, they are in denial.

    A big flashing light, good positioning and bright clothing is a poor substitute, but it’s the only other thing we’ve got.

    james-rennie
    Full Member

    footflaps.. “dressing like tarmac” Brilliant, I’m using that line.

    whatgoesup
    Full Member

    See, to me that just says, “when I drive, I don’t want to feel obliged to look very hard.”

    Unfortunately, that does seem to be the attitude of a range of drivers, and for the moment at least we’re stuck with it.

    Given that, would you choose to be the cyclist who was spotted early or the cyclist who was not?

    Bez
    Full Member

    Given that, would you choose to be the cyclist who was spotted early or the cyclist who was not?

    In line with the “not wanting to look hard” trait, I gave it some consideration, set my bikes up with dynamo lights, and then never bother thinking much about what I wear, because I’m always illuminated.

    But that doesn’t mean I’m not going to argue against the filthy tide of “I can’t see you easily enough and I don’t want to slow down, so wear something lurid for me”.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    As I entered the village on my return there was a woman at the other end.

    I clocked her flashing light.

    As the light dipped behind a parked car she went back to being almost invisible- how ever as I had clocked her highly visible light from significant distance I knew she was there already and was able to make out her shape above the car.

    When we were along side it became apparent that she was in a high Viz gilet. It did not help her be seen at all. We actually had to be fairly close before the colour could be determined even with her light Hiden behind the cars.

    set my bikes up with dynamo lights, and then never bother thinking much about what I wear, because I’m always illuminated.

    That’s where I live these days. Both my utility bikes have dynamo lighting….it’s so cheap to do these days can get a Shimano Dyno Hub for 20 quid and an svtzo lightest for 25. And it just works.

    Jeaster
    Full Member

    I am guilty of this. Most of the stuff I wear has some small reflective detail on it, but it’s predominantly black. I’ve been conscious of how dangerous it is, but not got round to doing anything about it. This thread has prompted me to give it some thought, though, so now looking around for a hi-viz gilet or similar, if anyone has a recommendation? Been looking at the Endura Hummvee – https://www.endurasport.com/Hummvee-Gilet/p/E9134-Hi-Viz-Yellow

    footflaps
    Full Member

    but not got round to doing anything about it.

    I’d say Day running lights (eg 200 lumen flashing LEDs) are the best first move. Then brighter clothing….

    dissonance
    Full Member

    We actually had to be fairly close before the colour could be determined even with her light Hiden behind the cars.

    Its why I like to use helmet mounted lights as well. Meets my “one is none, two is one” approach, gives a multiple angles and I think in some cases it makes drivers more wary than they would be with just a handlebar light since they cant quite be sure what it is coming the other way (handy on backroads sometimes).
    Helmet lights are also handy for junctions and cars coming in from the side since can direct the light as needed.
    Coloured clothing not so much although when I did commute I was a fan of reflective clothing.

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