But then reasonably priced steel is rarely actually springy especially in these days of CEN tests (despite what people like to kid themselves)…

I got one after riding stevestunts rather beautiful kona explosif which was like riding puffs of valium laced candyfloss across trails of molten kisses. I got an on one 456 which rides like rolling a dustbin down a pile of broken excavators. I am a fool.

No worries, I’m a pedantic Northerner 😆

@nemesis – in the 1980s I got a handbuilt road bike made with Reynolds 531 that was definitely “springy” – if you were stood up pedalling you could feel the frame push back on each stroke. A bit disconcerting at first but something that you came to appreciate.

The only road bike since then that has given me the same sort of quiet comfort in the frame was a Van Nicholas titanium model I hired in Majorca last year – I’ll hire another when I go again later this year.

My only MTB is a Ragley Blue Pig. It’s bloody great. Can’t say it’s the steel and nothing else but it’s a great ride. 😀

Some guff is talked about steel – it’s certainly the best material for custom builders, but repairable? At a price, yes. Carbon is probably easier to repair than high-end steel. Carbon also gives you the best balance of stiffness and comfort, if it’s done properly. Where I reckon steel wins hands-down is durability. Provided the tubes aren’t ridiculously thin-walled, a steel frame will resist knocks better than anything else, will never ever fail by fatigue and if you treat the inside of the tubes with anti-rust stuff and make sure the BB drain hole is clear, it won’t rust away either. That’s why I’m still riding a 21-year old Pinarello Treviso and expect to be doing so for as long as I can pedal. Plus, it looks elegant, even with full length mudguards.

Whitestone – I had bikes like that in the 90s. They were flexy. Imo that’s different to springy. Good springy bikes aren’t flexy under power or at least not unreasonably so.

Oh and brant who knows a thing or two about designing frames has stated that steel frame typically are not under the fatigue limit for steel and as such will fatigue eventually. Obviously that could be a very long time but it’s a misconception that they won’t.

The endurance limit of steel is typically half the tensile strength. Granted, scratches, chips, dents, imperfect welds and corrosion will reduce this. I’ll let you know how my heavy lugged and brazed frame is getting on in another 20 years.

If you check about three quarters of the way down page four, I think you’ll find we’ve already sorted this one.

Firefly bikes give me wood.

Is it just me or does that look really slack?

mmmmmmmm

Adonised logos – YES PLEASE!

Those Fireflys are lovely bikes. The prices made my eyes bleed though… 🙂

thestabiliser – Member
I got one after riding stevestunts rather beautiful kona explosif which was like riding puffs of valium laced candyfloss across trails of molten kisses. I got an on one 456 which rides like rolling a dustbin down a pile of broken excavators. I am a fool.

Now try an On One 456 in Summer Season clothes. You’d need to add heavy lead gas pipe dead to the description.

I have three bikes, one steel, one aluminium and one carbon and I like them all. Am I normal?
By the way I have to agree with nemesis , modern steel can be hellish stiff. I had a 456 which was as stiff as any alloy bike I have ever had.

paulrockliffe – Member
To add some balance to the 80s tech love-in…..

I can’t stand steel frames, they’re pretty much pointless, given the On One 456C frames are £400. All this stuff about flex and absorbing trail buzz is rubbish, the ultra stiff 456C is far more comfortable and suffers far less from buzz than the best steel frames. And all these frames have far better damping in the tyres.

The 456C is stronger and lighter too.

I can’t see a single good reason to buy a steel frame, other than the proper cheap ones if that’s all the cash you’ve got.
Well, I’m willing to put good money on the fact that you could easily be riding a steel framed bike forty, fifty, sixty years after you bought it, whereas it’s highly unlikely an alu fram will last a third of that. I had a Cannondale M800 Beast Of The East, great little bike, terrific fun to ride, replaced the frame with a Cove Handjob, and sold the frame to a friend.
The Handjob fram is still around, but the Beast died years ago.
Also, there was a very definite difference in the way the bikes rode, the HJ was so much more comfortable to ride over reasonable distances, ten to fifteen miles, the Beast left me feeling like I’d been done over with a meat tenderiser.
And the only difference in the bikes was the frame, everything else was swapped straight over.
I’ve had alloy, titanium and steel hardtails, I still have two steel hardtails. As for carbon, I don’t see that material being any good as a long-term material; if you’re the sort of person who has to have the latest whizzy toy to show off to his impressionable friends, then I guess carbon is fine, because you’ll soon get bored and move on to whatever the latest swanky piece of male jewellery happens to be.
While I’m not currently riding either of my steel hardtails, I’m not getting rid of them, I reckon I’ll still have them in another twenty years.

For Dannyh, here’s a photo of a genuine 250 GTO; the current owner’s had it for forty-odd years:

Dunno about rat bikes, but this one has been slowly going rusty since I got the frame, and I’ve been tempted to strip the thin coat of lacquer off of it, and let it get a natural patina. It’ll still be around in fifty years time, which is more than can be said for me.

Apart from the forks, everything on this bike came off a Cove Hummer and I’ve had lots more fun on this bike; I’m far less worried about damaging it by decking it.

Well, I’m willing to put good money on the fact that you could easily be riding a steel framed bike forty, fifty, sixty years after you bought it, whereas it’s highly unlikely an alu fram will last a third of that

Lol yeah cos 60 year longevity is what people on here are really after.. I hope I’m not riding the same bike 60 years later 🙂

Lol yeah cos 60 year longevity is what people on here are really after.. I hope I’m not riding the same bike 60 years later

Are you being deliberately obtuse, Moll? Or is that whooshing noise the point going right over your head?
There are plenty of people riding around on good steel framed bikes that are sixty-odd years old; of course it probably won’t be you, but you’re the one who was banging on about people being wasteful in another thread, but you can’t seem to grasp the idea that for many folks, having found a bike that suits them, and their style of riding, they might, just might, want to hang onto the bloody thing for longer than five or ten years before it wears out.

but you can’t seem to grasp the idea

It’s not me that’s not grasping things…

I was in fact commenting that for most cyclists, a 50 year lifespan is way down the list of things to consider when buying bikes. Where are all the ‘what bike to ride until I die?’ threads?

I’ve got five bikes, four of which are 8 years old and show no signs of needing replacement, so I won’t replace them. Alloy and carbon frames aren’t disposable.

Took my son to the local Freeride trail today. He was on my old steel Genesis ioID and me on my five.

He didn’t get on with it so we swapped bikes then put the five away on the car.

I did a few runs on the iOID. To say it was amazing fun was an understatement. Just as much air, only two seconds slower on my best run, and that’s with 100mm QR forks, heavy alfine hub and small 160mm brakes.

Was revving up to get a 160mm FS beast next year but might not bother!!

Steel is well and truly alive!!!!

Just because

because it’s sexy

…damn it why does it look dirty close-up? 😀

I bought one of these. I think it looks cool, skinny tubes just look good to me and it seems to ride pretty well, also blue. I like blue.

The Handjob fram is still around, but the Beast died years ago.
Also, there was a very definite difference in the way the bikes rode, the HJ was so much more comfortable to ride over reasonable distances, ten to fifteen miles, the Beast left me feeling like I’d been done over with a meat tenderiser.

You need to study stats (“the plural of anecdote isn’t evidence” to quote my favourite big hitter) and also not compare such different bike.

Apart from that, great big hitting!

Plus, it has a proper screw-in BB rather than some crappy press-fit piece of junk.

Something to be said for this. It seems (in terms of off the peg ‘normal’ frames) that the order is Carbon > Aluminium > Steel in terms of performance, but Steel > Aluminium > Carbon in terms of practicality.

I have a Cannondale Carbon Synapse which is fantastic in almost every respect, but creaks, and requires constant upkeep to keep it running quietly, and specialist carbon specific greases, and a **** torque wrench just to tighten the seatpost or stem, all sorts of new tools and greases and patience for the press fit BB30A bottom bracket and, oh, I haven’t dared go near the internal cable routing yet. Did I mention I can’t fit any sort of decent mudguards (but I knew this when I bought it).

Meanwhile, the Genesis Equilibrium I so badly want doesn’t require any new tools that I don’t already own from 6 years ago, has a threaded bottom bracket, probably won’t creak but could be silenced with bog standard grease if it did, takes mudguards etc etc.

The last aluminium frame I had sat somewhere in the middle on the scale of inconvenience…

None of this is inherent to steel, but I doubt you’ll find a carbon frame with a screw in bottom bracket, external cables, mudguard clearance etc etc

456 Carbon frame has all of that.

1947 Hobbs
1960s Carlton
1970s Viscount rescued from the tip
1980s Emperor Sport
1982 Holdsworth
1984 Overburys
1993 Dawes
and a few other steel framed bikes probably from the 80s

Not much room for aluminium and none for carbon in my collection

456 Carbon frame has all of that.

Granted, I hadn’t really included mountainbike frames in my argument 8)

NS Surge. That’s all I have to say.