Beloki’s tub rolled pretty easily in 2003, the hot road caused the skid, but I’m fairly confident if he’d come off the brakes on a clincher it would’ve straightened up. Fairly irrelevant, because we don’t know how he’d have reacted anyway, and generally tubs will handle flats far better, but that’s my £0.02.

Carbon rims can be so much lighter/more aero than alu rims that crap braking is an acceptable risk – same boat for everyone after all! They’re fine in the dry, just the wet it’s a bit hairy IME.

I agree with convert. I think the solution is to bond a super hard resin strip to the braking surface of the rim, ground to a plane and with design characteristics that deliver predictable frictional performance. Perhaps with a custom brake block.

Id also love to see super lightweight, one-piece injected carbon resin (like the new magura lever bodies) calipers designed for 100-120mm rotors on carbon road forks.

It’s all to do with heat dissipation. Aluminium is a good heat conductor, carbon isn’t so good. Since brakes rely on converting kinetic energy into heat energy, relying on carbon instead of aluminium isn’t a great idea on long descents. The way the rim surface varys in heat dissipation / build-up means breaking is variable = grabbed brake on damp road and slid out.

Sam’s right, if this year’s Tour crashes don’t hurry along road disc developments nothing will. Shimano already have the basic mechanism designed in the dual-control.

Am I alone in finding the modern Carbon roadbikes to be really skittish at speed? I just don’t have the confidence that I have with my alu bike. I have had the bars jerked right out of my hands over a fast downhill bump on my Madone. It’s awesome on the climbs, but really sketchy on the fast descents in my experience.

Am I alone in finding the modern Carbon roadbikes to be really skittish at speed? I just don’t have the confidence that I have with my alu bike. I have had the bars jerked right out of my hands over a fast downhill bump on my Madone. It’s awesome on the climbs, but really sketchy on the fast descents in my experience.

Just wondering what the weight of the madone is compared to the alu bikes of the past. I find my c20lb steel road bike can be a bit of a handful in cross winds and do wonder if i put a set of light wheels, currently open pros, on it whether it would get worse.

Most carbon wheel manufacturers are going to great lengths to improve their braking surfaces by impregnating them with higher friction additives.

Road racing in the wet with people racing on carbon rims is an experinence depending on which wheels they have. Poorly coated rims – The brakes don’t bite well and then bite after a delay. Not smooth at all. With the best wheels you can descend as quick as on any rim – look at Cuneago in the tour of Switzerland in the wet.

However on the long descents in the alps – I’m not sure. Mostly the high mountain crashes this year have just looked like people overcooking it or hitting a slippery patch (Vino’s crash). I wouldn’t say it’s down to carbon rims. They are all riding them and only a small percentage crash.

However on the long descents in the alps – I’m not sure. Mostly the high mountain crashes this year have just looked like people overcooking it or hitting a slippery patch (Vino’s crash). I wouldn’t say it’s down to carbon rims. They are all riding them and only a small percentage crash.

+1

IMO there arent that many crashes caused by brake failures. You won’t see discs any time soon, they’re not necessary, the UCI won’t go for it, and the manufacturers would need to totally redesign bikes!

Am I alone in finding the modern Carbon roadbikes to be really skittish at speed? I just don’t have the confidence that I have with my alu bike.

My Madone is vastly more confidence inspiring than my Allez, which is horrible!

the manufacturers would need to totally redesign bikes!

The cost of this would be massively offset by the huge increase in sales as hordes of roadies feel the need to upgrade.

The cost of this would be massively offset by the huge increase in sales as hordes of roadies feel the need to upgrade.

how many roadies do you know? i have come across enough that complain that there brake blocks only lasted 3 years! There may be some who would do the mtb “newer is better” thing but i am not convinced many would. I get the feeling that there is a cultural issue here, mtbs try and buy performance, roadies have a work ethic.

The cost of this would be massively offset by the huge increase in sales as hordes of roadies feel the need to upgrade.

Lol.
On a mountain bike site where it’s considered acceptable to change your tyres depending on wind direction..

I know quite a few that have Carbon rims.

Carbon wheels are lighter, stiffer and generally stronger, especially if you’re after aero wheelsets.

Tubs (tubular tyres) are generally lighter and typically more comfortable to ride on, even with the 140psi plus pressures you need to run them at. Big downsides are they’re difficult to repair, can be very expensive and because they are usually glued on, you do need to be a bit more careful at the extremes of riding;- fast downhills, fast corners etc etc.

Tis very easy to blow £2K or more on some high end hoops.

Re disc brakes. Ha Ha, no chance that’ll happen on high end road bikes.

They don’t need need them and the focus in recent years has been towards aero. The Scott Plasma 3 is one of the slipperiest Time Trial bikes at the mo though manufacturers are chucking more effort into making conventional road bikes more aero.

Take a look at the Cervelo S5 to see where things are headed.

Oh and on a vaguely connected note, Rockshox did some lightweight sus forks for road bikes back in the 90s for the pro peleton.

Didn’t catch on for a whole host of reasons, weight and flex being two biggies.

Chris Boardman also says during the intro “I always wondered what the second and third place steps were for on the podium”.

He’s stood there often enough, you’d think he’d have worked it out by now.

that quote is really quite cringe worthy… more so if CB actually penned it himself!

bruyneel sugests discs might help crashes

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/07/news/inside-the-tour-with-john-wilcockson-what-caused-the-crashes_183602

interesting article anyway.

Wouldn’t it be quite dangerous having disc rotors on road bikes? I could see fingers getting mangled in a crash! ouchy

How can discs be any more dangerous than a wheel spinning are many rpm, or a chain ring sinking it’s way into your leg.

Not to mention the barbed carbon splinters making their way to your heart after a crash 😯

True, but i’d rather my finger go one on one with just a spoke instead of a cigar cutter rotor!!

carbon ceramic disks are commonly used in high performance cars. Any reason that material wouldn’t work on the outside of a carbon wheel?

carbon ceramic brake material needs quite a bit of heat before it works properly, I’m guessing the tub glue would melt or the tyre would burst at those temps.

Temperature required. Stone cold brakes on an F1 car = scary. Heat the rim up and your tub glue melts.

This is all getting boring,make them do it on mountain bikes. 😆

Weight on the bikes isn’t an issue on some of the bikes they are inserting weights into the seat tube just above the BB to make sure the bike gets to the minimum weight.

Carbon wheels are lighter, stiffer and generally stronger

I’ll buy lighter and more aero, but stronger?

Maybe he meant stiffer?

I was wondering how the side winds effected deep dish rims, had some scary moments on 30mms.
Hit me with quotes if you like, but a lot of deep dish wheels are pretty hefty, but like I’ve said they’re not all about weight.

They don’t need need them and the focus in recent years has been towards aero. The Scott Plasma 3 is one of the slipperiest Time Trial bikes at the mo though manufacturers are chucking more effort into making conventional road bikes more aero.

Take a look at the Cervelo S5 to see where things are headed.

Oh and on a vaguely connected note, Rockshox did some lightweight sus forks for road bikes back in the 90s for the pro peleton.

Didn’t catch on for a whole host of reasons, weight and flex being two biggies.

What on earth do road suspension forks (I believe you are referring to the short lived Rockshox Ruby, which were not especially light, just Mag21’s with a different arch) have to do with a discussion about disc brakes on road bikes?

Re Rockshox road sus forks, apparently they were used by winners of Paris-Roubaix in two successive years.

http://bikehugger.com/post/view/rock-shox-paris-roubaix-sl-for

Disc breaks wont help on decents, rim breaks make the tyres niche and hot and therefore very very grippy. Discs would mean no heat = more crashes!

+ Are you sure riders ONLY use their sponsors gear? In skiing quite a few pros use other manufacturers stuff stickered up to their sponsors, or kit thats not current season but made to look like it.

+ Are you sure riders ONLY use their sponsors gear? In skiing quite a few pros use other manufacturers stuff stickered up to their sponsors, or kit thats not current season but made to look like it.

Depends, the answer depends on the contracts, some pros have personnel sponsors a classic example is Contador, look at his helmets. there are occasions where parts might be black labelled to disguise provenance.

GDL with Museeuw on his wheel…..hard bastards if ever there were.

EDIT: check museeuw’s full sus Bianchi

hot disc can do to someone i am not sure the UCI are going to be overly happy with them in the peleton

I doubt road discs get any hotter than DH discs, after all there is plenty of airflow, and these ladies aren’t for braking… A hot rotor bite has to be better than a bigger crash.

if you think 700c carbon tubs are bad, think back to 20″ skyway mags…

You don’t get DH pile ups with 200 riders with lots of exposed flesh though, totally irrelevant analogy.

What on earth do road suspension forks (I believe you are referring to the short lived Rockshox Ruby, which were not especially light, just Mag21’s with a different arch) have to do with a discussion about disc brakes on road bikes?

Sam, if you look at my original post, I said ‘on a vaguely connected note’. 😕

Anyhoo back to wheels.

‘Stronger’ may not have been the correct term though it can depend on how deep the rim is. In answer to to oldgit’s comment about deep rims, yes they can be susceptible to cross winds.

I recently added a pair of Easton EC90 56mm wheels to the collection and the front can be real twitchy in a cross wind. Easton do a 90mm version as do numerous others, but that’s too deep for my liking and I weigh nearly 13st.

On the back disks, tri spokes deep sections are NOT affected by cross winds.

The CTT are responsible for UK time trialling, and Zipp 1080’s are not allowed on the front as they have more than 45% of their surface area enclosed.

I’ll stop now as the regs for bike design, weights etc etc, are an utter utter minefield when you factor in the different regs of the UCI, BC, CTT, BTF yadda yadda yadda 🙄

Make the brake blocks out of carbon and the rims from rubber, problem solved

My daughter’s boyfriend was telling me the other day that his new deep section carbon rims are v. scary in crosswinds, especially on downhill mountain sections. He did the etape this weekend and was undecided about using them.

He was one of the minority who finished – the only reason he didn’t pack it in was that all the buses were already full of retirees.

Light weight is not the overriding issue for many TdF competitors – it’s stiffness. That’s why you see Reynolds using two-cross builds with straight gauge rather than bladed and butted spokes, tied and soldered.

While stock Thirty-Two wheels prioritize saving weight – a critical metric for the enthusiast market – AG2R instead requested that they be stiffened up.

You don’t get DH pile ups with 200 riders with lots of exposed flesh though, totally irrelevant analogy.

Perhaps with brakes that worked you wouldn’t get 200 man pile ups. Just as likely to lose a finger in a wheel as in a disc rotor.

Don’t get the same modulation with discs that you do with rim brakes, so I don’t ever see discs going anywhere past TT bikes.

Besides, if you brake, you lose.

RealMan – Member

Don’t get the same modulation with discs that you do with rim brakes, so I don’t ever see discs going anywhere past TT bikes.
Eh? Of course you can and do.