15 hours riding is what Rockshox used to say between servicing too when their forks were rubbish. Of course, no-one ever did it so they all failed.

I’m confused.

RS forks performance and build quality is now better but they need less servicing.

Are Fox Forks, although ‘plush’, no better than the shoddy old RS forks?

Anyone with more money than sense want to buy a pair of RS Psylos?

My ’08 Toras advised 15 hr servicing intervals I believe…

Of course the scrotes had that bike before I could see if it was needed…

had my 04 van 32s pushed ( by tf tuned ) the other year they added a boxxer seal on top of the standard fox part so the fork now has oil seal and wiper much better.

Ive been riding Fox for years & never had a problem, never, not once ever. Its like all kit – just needs looking after. If you expect your equipment to go on forever with zero user input then go ride a fully rigid singlespeed!

1 question for all the people have have no problems with thier forks have you stripped them down? as when I killed my Vanilla’s they looked OK until you stripped them down and then you could see the wear on the stanchion.

So while you think they are fine, you might have actually already knackered them, its just you haven’t looked.

My SO has Fox Floats on her new bike, and if they have worn through she is happy to try and get them fixed under warranty as unfit for purpose.

and if they have worn through she is happy to try and get them fixed under warranty as unfit for purpose.

Good point.

and if they have worn through she is happy to try and get them fixed under warranty as unfit for purpose.

Ah, warranty issues and Mojo. Always an interesting experience.

And yes, I’m aware that officially your warranty is with the place you brought them from and not the importer but thats not always the reality.

You go to shop -> shop send them to Mojo -> Mojo say “incorrect/lack of maintenance” – > shop says “no dice”.

As richc has said most of the problems with worn stanchions occur at the bottom of the stanchion so you can’t actually see it. I had a pair of Vans on my SS and had to replace the crown assembly after the stanchions wore out. The new ones lasted just over a year and the same happened again. Fox said (or at least the distributor in Germany)that having them fully serviced every six months was not enough to cover them under warranty which is why I now have RS but I have to say as far as pure performance (not including reliability) goes the Fox’s are better.

Fox advertise their forks in bike magazines, a fair bit as well. Would you write negative reviews on Fox forks when they give you current and future money? Great to be impartial but not at the expense of your journo-job.

Oh for FFffff…..

I really should have learned by now not to let this regular type of made up conspiracy theory blox get me annoyed..

I’ve explained the system of journos and kit and stuff in huge detail in the past..

All I’ll say now.. since this is a direct attack on mine as well as the integrity of the people Chipps and I employ (not to mention the professional journos we all know personally from the other mags)..

That’s complete made up blox. Reviews are not influenced by advertising. I know this because I’ve been in the job of reviews for over 10 years.. across many magazines… To say otherwise is to call me a liar. Hora.. back it up with evidence or shut up!

Mark I don’t want to question your integrity with respect to the advertising, but how come I have never seen a tested product been received as crap or rubbish. They must be one they can’t all be perfect?

Possibly because manufactureres make damn sure that the products sent to magazines for review are going to work perfectly?

Mark, are the big magazines owned by international companies? Do they have teams of sales agents taking calls from advertisers, canvassing potential advertisers with rate cards at hand etc etc etc? Surely, its fair to assume that the Financial-types lean on certain articles to lessen a review etc?

I have seen reviews of kit with a fullpage ad from the same manufacturer in the same mag before. Surely coincidence or was a series of calls made saying the article on the latest kit will be favourable as you are running an ad etc???

Call me cynical but Im sure it does go on. If a certain bike/kit manufacturer doesnt advertise with a certain mag surely open to a more critical review? Sorry if its conjecture and pure pie in the sky cynicism from an industry outsider.

Ps. Im not insinuating everyone do this Mark. I know at STW you try to keep the advertising/content mix in the mag down for a start.. Just saying it must go on in the industry. 🙂

I don’t think any such leaning goes on. I’ve never worked in bike journalism, but have been a hack for years and journo/PR relations just don’t work like that.

For the record, the line that gets me suspicious in reviews (in any mag) is “we had problems with the fork and the manufacturer insisted we had a pre-production sample”.

Of course were this about favorable Specialized reviews in MBR the tinfoil hat wearing masses would be out in full strength.

there have been poor reviews of things in stw, personally I think in general most items on bikes today are brill. slx shifters unheard of quality and performance 10 years ago, most bikes are good to ride people like certain systems more than others me horst link great single pivot not my cup of tea, vpp like giants but not santa cruz or intense, personal choice, disc brakes do what they are meant to, stop go stop go sometimes leak but great. So journos like some stuff more than others, so what I take it as an indication and then try before I buy wheer possible.

So I avoid fox forks why….bad experience when they first came out and now nearly £800 new sorry too expensive, been happy with old Mazs and newer RS, mind you my wife is still running a set of RS 100mm sids from the last century highly reliable and been chucked down several mountain ranges in the last decade. I ride with what I like and know so for me Maz, RS, Magura forks Shimano, Hope hubs, Magura brakes, easton, thomson, SDG, giro, dialled bikes bars,. all FAF stuff.

“One day PACE will make a freeride DH fork and we can all be happy. I’d kill for a PACE built Totem-esque fork”.

you’ll need a new mortgage to buy them.

Its weird reading this thread nobody has mentioned Magura forks, been running Durins and Thors for a while now and they have been great. They are both super plush but I do run the Thors with the Albert select on (all the time)with the threshold set on minimum.

Marzocchi were really good (slightly heavy) but since moving production to the Far East they don’t work as well.

As for the reviews I’m with Mark on this one I feel the ones I’ve met at the shows are decent people, but I have been present when a certain MBR journo said to an importer while I was in his shop “the only company who know how to make forks is Fox”, which to me seems a bold statement.

Surely, its fair to assume that the Financial-types lean on certain articles to lessen a review etc?

No! Hora.. how can I be any clearer! It is NOT fair to assume that when you have no idea.. no evidence.. no experience of it happening.. you are making a totally unfounded assertion that some of the people I work with or have worked with are corrupt. To write a review that is not true or does not reflect the honest opinion of the reviewer is corrupt and dishonest. You are ASSUMING that some of the people I have worked with and do work with are corrupt and dishonest based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever. I find that hugely insulting and I think you should either back up your accusations with evidence or withdraw it. If I stepped into your office and said out load that I assume that members of your staff were corrupt I’d expect a hell of a backlash and maybe a good kicking! Produce evidence for your theory or withdraw it!

Ad sales employees absolutely do NOT influence the editorial opinions of product reviewers in any UK magazine from my experience. And my experience is frankly quite comprehensive. I’ve been a freelancer for lots of mags as a product reviewer.. I’ve been a product reviewer on staff and I am now an employer of product reviewers. I have also been involved with ad sales and marketing of mags. I speak from a position of some experience where you do not. So you can imagine I take offence at this conspiracy theory that mag reviews are influenced by ad sales. It simply does not work like that. It couldn’t work like that. It just would not be a viable or concealable option.
I’ve made this offer before and still no one has ever taken me up on it.. but if there is anyone who still thinks that there is some link between editorial opinion and ad sales then get in touch with me and I’ll arrange for you to come and spend a day in our office and you can see how it all works for real.

but I have been present when a certain MBR journo said to an importer while I was in his shop “the only company who know how to make forks is Fox”, which to me seems a bold statement.

There’s a big difference between dishonesty and corruption and stupid arrogance.

Mark I never said you worked that way. I just said I find it wierd when a mag has say a big fullpage ad from say Specialized and a favourable review all in the same issue.
I apologise to you (please remember I did also add that I was potentially talking conjecture and pure pie in the sky cynicism) 😉

Forgive me?

Wow ‘sootyandJim’ you summed up my warranty experience perfectly.

6 months old, bugger all use and the shop just said that there is nothing they can do about i and I am left with a shitty fox fork that cost over £500

Mags would give a different review if they had to service them every couple of long rides or pay a hundreds to get the stanchions replaced every six months.

Advertisers will deliberately run ads in an issue that they know will have a review of their product in it. That’s just a marketing strategy to backup a review. I took a call on Friday from KE Adventure travel. The conversation can be summed up thus…

‘If I’d known you were running a piece that featured one of our trips I’d have told the marketing dept. to run and ad in this issue.’

This is common everywhere in all magazines across the world. That’s a long way from suggesting that a company will lean on a journo to change his opinion based on whether or not an ad is going to be placed. The majority of mags also have a policy of not releasing a review to a manufacturer before it goes to print. We have been asked by some manufacturers if they could see the review before it goes to print. We always say no. As do the mags I have worked on in the past. To do that would just end up with the editorial team being cross examined on every point and nuance of the review. It’s a bit like why we don’t discuss moderator decisions on the forum – it just ends up in needless arguing and questioning.

Look… we are one of the least organised mag outfits out there.. I’ll admit that.. but even we have a yearly plan that details what bikes we want to review in each issue. This list then goes out into the industry and brands will use it to plan their ad spend. They will target the mags that they know their product will be in but this is done well in advance of the bike even getting to the reviewer. That’s how it works here and like I say, our level of planning and organisation is frankly shite compared to other mags.

So in short. Yes.. you will likely see an ad from a manufacturer in the same issue their product is reviewed. But this is just the manufacturer backing up a review with their own marketing to try and increase the awareness of the product or brand.

Ah right. Got it. I understand that now.

Mags would give a different review if they had to service them every couple of long rides or pay a hundreds to get the stanchions replaced every six months.

MBUK etc do have longterm bike tests. There dont seem to be any issues arising though?

Maybe a member of the ST editorial team could clue us in to how long forks are usually tested for reviews?

Anything between 2 months (for fork group tests – that we try not to do) and 4 months upwards for one-off “Grinder” reviews.

Although if we test them for much longer than 6-7 months then we run the risk of the review being obsolete by the time the mag comes out! 🙂

I hear Bill Odie has seen the Common Spotted Backpeddling Hora in the Manchester area.

I know this is OT but one of my gripes with car mags (Autocar etc) are the lack of real longterm tests (their fleet lasts 10,000-20,000miles) before they replace. Ben from above I guess inpart they have to stay relavent/uptodate and cover the latest cars. The only exception was the Merc E class estate they bought and ran. Anyway, this is O/T.

Is there a place for the second hand mark buyers or those who buy later in the year… the sales, so for those people tests that do last longer than 6 -7 months would be invaluable.
Intresting insight into the world of magazines though

hora, it’s a review, it’s designed to cover some of the operating aspects of the products, it’s purpose is to help your decision making, not to be some sort of on-going testimony.

Fox stantions have been a well known “issue” since Fox first started making forks, surely there’s enough info about to make folk aware of what they’re getting when they buy a Fox fork. Even Mojo themselves tell you to store the bike upside down, enough of a give away to make even the slowest, dimwitted biker aware that this is something they need to pay attention to.

Why is it that the anodising wear problem does not seem to happen on Fox rear shocks? The anodising on the shock shaft is darker than on forks – why don’t they put the same stuff on the forks?

Also, having serviced both Fox 36 and RS Pikes I consider the Fox forks to be much better made and for what it’s worth the Fox forks have 10ml more lubrication oil in them.

As for the oil seal in the RS this prevents the foam ring that helps to lubricate the seal from rewetting with oil when the forks are stored upside down. The only worn stantion incident I have suffered is on a set of Pikes although friends have suffered wear on predominantly 32 series Fox forks.

There’s a video of Tim Flooks performing this procedure on a Boxer and I think he advises a 10-15 hour interval so it’s not just Fox. All “semi-bath” forks need some loving…

nickc why would everyone know that unless you read alot online or have already experienced problems?

The other thing that gets me is that you pay anywhere between £200-600 for set of forks (I know you can get them outside that range, but bear with me).

Then, you’re supposed to do basic services every 15 hours (£35) and a full service once a year. Send away a set of forks to Mojo or TFT and you rarely get any change out of £100, and if you’ve worn anything it will be parts on top. So what I’m saying here is that you pay anywhere between 23% (ish) and 67% (ish) of the value of forks per year in servicing, and this is for a product less than three years old. Imagine paying that percentage for servicing on your new car? Do you think the public would put up with that? I strongly doubt it.

And before someone points out that we ride MTB’s in awful conditions, what about your car? How often do you really clean the shocks/dampers? Think of the forces involved with supporting a cars weight at speed with potholes? What about a 4×4 such as a Land/Range Rover? They don’t cost that much to service each year.

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/infoabout/claims/index.htm

if fox think our riding conditions are too extreme for their forks and we have too much mud(winter mud,spring mud,summer mud,autumn mud) and they need servicing every 15 hours of riding (that would be once a week for me) shouldn,t they be stating this more openly or should they just say not suitable for uk,

Summary:

If you ride fox forks store your bike upside down, if you ride Marzocchi, Rock Shox, Magura or others you don’t really need to worry.

With all forks its a good idea to clean them off with a hose not a pressure washer or with that “easy bike cleaner” stuff but just wash them off then run some oil around the stanchion, compress the fork a few times, wipe off the muck, repeat until satisfied.

anything to add?

mmmm.

I’m in charge of marketing at a little known US sporting goods company, which means I oversee the product that goes for review and who we advertise with. For anyone to claim total separation of advertising and reviewing is frankly utter bollocks.

If I couldn’t exert some leverage over the magazine who reviews our kit you can be damn sure they’d not get kit to review or adverts placed with them.

Maybe if all the gear was sent for review under plain wrapper with no logos or distinguishing marks on it, magazines could claim this independence, but it isn’t. Reviewers and magazine staff are glad handed, you get ‘trade accommodation’ pricing and a whole host of other benefits from the manufacturers. Hell we’re just about to take 4 magazines out ‘somewhere sunny’ to review and test some of the upcoming season’s kit. If I didn’t think doing this somewhere sunny had a positive effect on the review I wouldn’t do it.

Maybe Singletrack employs a double blind testing regime with reviewers who exist outside of the industry whom cannot be ‘affected’, but i don’t think they do…..

None of which means that any company can ‘buy’ a good review of course, just that there are multiple ways and means of assuring the ‘most favourable’ possible outcome.

I guess your all “engineers” that are blaging service intervals ? or to tight/stupid to understand that high end stuff needs looking after, and spending some time looking after your stuff will prelong the life of it. which i’m more than happy to do for the performance gains of using a certain brand of suspension

That’s total crap!

Yes, we get treated nicely by bike companies and we get offers of trips here there and everywhere but EVERYONE does that. We are not short of free kit and if one company doesn’t supply it there are countless others who will. So there’s no motivation to bend a review to suit a brand and you are deluding yourself if you think that works!

I’ll state again.. I’ve been involved in the journo side of reviews for over ten years with numerous mags. I know pretty much ALL the journos in the UK bike industry very well and we have some of the most respected and experienced reviewers in the world here. I’ve had this discussion with many of them many times over.

And for the record…

If I couldn’t exert some leverage over the magazine who reviews our kit you can be damn sure they’d not get kit to review or adverts placed with them.

Don’t send it to us then, you’ll be wasting your time.

I don’t have a problem with looking after stuff, but if I go away riding for a weekend and void my warranty as I didn’t service my forks mid-ride seems a little harsh.

15 hours is a joke, like I posted earlier my SO has some on her bike, if they are knackered in < 18 months, and Mojo refuse to replace them under warranty, then I guess we can see what happens whey they are taken to court, as she has zero issues with getting her trainee to do the litigation as ‘experience’ 😉

Personally, I prefer riding to stripping my forks down once a week, so I will be avoiding Fox and buying RockShox/Magura as you get the same level of performance for less cash, and they appear to be able to survive the harsh UK environment without needing to strip them down every other ride.