Some pedestrians are dicks, but as a group rarely kill or seriously injure anyone. (Apart from murders and that.)
Some cyclists are dicks, but they rarely kill or seriously injure anyone.
Some drivers are dicks, and they frequently kill or seriously injure people.

Nice summary Mike, I want that repeated everytime RLJing is brought up in a “motorist does something dangerous” thread.

looking at your vids you need to move a couple of feet to the right.

What bollocks. You can’t tell from the videos what his road position is. And you can’t comment on it unless you ride the same roads.
I know he put his video up inviting comment, but the sheer arrogance of people on here telling other people how to ride on the road astounds me.

This was this morning. I’m almost in the middle of the road, as I’m aware drivers want to overtake approaching the bridge and I don’t want them to. Still this idiot tries to squeeze in front of me. Tries… and fails
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClCjpHqdZrw[/video]

However, at this point, the motorbike behind him saw this as an opportunity to undertake the car, and came between us at a fair old ****ing speed!!!! I nearly ****ing shat myself. ****ing idiot!!!!

Had that in Moss Side once – only it was a scooter zipping between me and the bus. I caught the scooter and was about to remonstrate when I realised where I was….

Some drivers are dicks, and they frequently kill or seriously injure people.

When I have the inevitable “cyclists jump red lights conversation”, I tell people that they can expect cyclists to change their behaviour when drivers stop killing 10 people a day on our roads.

Yesterday morning walking to work (too short to cycle really, don’t benefit from the exercise) I’m walking over a two lane bridge where congestion and vehicles blocking the gutter area cause issues for cyclists.

I was walking up the centre of the path, having passed someone oncoming, moving over to the left where I belong safely, when a cyclist, at speed, hit my right hand from behind with his handlebar, and continued riding off without making any sign he knew it had happened (when you strike your handlebars on anything you very well know you’ve done it!)

I only roughly saw his bike, his build, hair (no helmet) age and trouser type as I wasn’t wearing my glasses. I thought about hanging around the bridge this morning to catch him and give him a good talking to, but had something else to do.

It doesn’t matter if on foot, bike, motorbike or car, “you’re in my bloody way” is the urge that gets into them and sanity and logic is lost in the race to overtake (un)safely.

Project…….I often ride along Brimstage bends on my commute, sometimes cutting through the lanes to Storeton as in your video or continuing along Brimstage road to Clatterbridge roundabout (not a nice roundabout on a bike!). As someone has mentioned earlier I often go on the pavement by craft centre heading towards Heswall as there are NEVER and pedestrians there and it is a bitch of a road in rush hour due to narrowness and bends, I know you shouldnt have to but sometimes it makes life so much easier/safer. other times I ride well away from kurb hoping mororists wont overtake…….but they do!

The morning commute the other way going towards Clatterbridge is a different story and sometimes makes me feel very smug…..cars overtake me by Heswall Hills station and its a great feeling to overtake them as they wait to join Clatterbridge roundabout, if they’ve got their windows open I’ll always give them a cheery “good morning”, must wind some drivers up so much (which isn’t a good thing!).

I know your ride shouldnt be dictated by bad drivers/roads but have you ever considered going to the little roundabout at Storeton, down Storeton Lane (a 60mph road but much nicer to ride on than Brimstage Rd) towards Heswall, left along Barnston road to Clegg Arms Roundabout etc etc…..its a much nicer ride as much wider road. If you only ride on Brimstage Rd from craft centre to the road leading up to Leverhulmes manor then just use the pavememnt

this morning was a shocker for me, must be the sunshine- 10miles into london nearly taken out by 3 taxis and a white van all overtaking me to turn left, i think the white van may have hit somehing round the corner as there was a skid and a bang 🙂

all 4 of them had me skidding to a halt

didnt see 1 cyclist jump a red which is quite rare in london, did see a few cars do it though! including a security van nearly get taken out by a bus and had to reverse back

It doesn’t matter if on foot, bike, motorbike or car, “you’re in my bloody way” is the urge that gets into them and sanity and logic is lost in the race to overtake (un)safely.

Yeah – but in case you were wondering this is a BIKE FORUM[/b].

Where CYCLISTS can air their grievances and complaints. Or are you saying we shouldn’t?

Two percent of cyclists “frequently” jump red lights.

I would dispute that based on the numbers I see doing it daily. I’d say it’s almost 2% of road using cyclists who DO stop for red lights.

I’m also seeing a massive jump in the number of people now cycling to work, which is great to see, but they see other cyclists jumping reds and think it’s ok to do so. Which it’s not.

Does anyone remember this……

Well, cycling out on Wokingham Road in Reading on Sunday some feckless driver beeped his horn and started gesticulating at the ‘cyclepath’ on the pavement. Now I could have argued with him that by being in the carrigeway I have right of way and therefore safer than being on the pavement where signs explicitly sate give way to pedestrians, side streets, lamposts etc. But I didn’t, I calmly knocked on his window at the George traffic lights, waited for him to get his words in first, then simply said “button it fatty” before observing his goldfish impression and waitign for the lights to change.

Happy days 😀

TINAS I doff my cap! I’ve long ago given up arguing with car drivers and find that calling them fat, or slagging their car is the best course of action!

What bollocks. You can’t tell from the videos what his road position is. And you can’t comment on it unless you ride the same roads.

I think you can and I dont want to be critical of Project but he should be further out on that stretch as it runs for a few hundred yards and is uphill which means drivers percieve you are holding them up.
I live about a mile away and I ride that regulalrly and whilst the drivers are absolute ***ks he should be further out in my opinion.

I had a similar incident (passing the farm in the opposite direction about 300yds from the OP’s post) to the Golf except he cut across more sharply meaning I ran into the back corner of his car.

His passenger windows was open so I asked him in no uncertain manner what he was doing!! 8) I think he may reflect on that one! 😀

Well, cycling out on Wokingham Road in Reading on Sunday some feckless driver beeped his horn and started gesticulating at the ‘cyclepath’ on the pavement. Now I could have argued with him that by being in the carrigeway I have right of way and therefore safer than being on the pavement where signs explicitly sate give way to pedestrians, side streets, lamposts etc. But I didn’t, I calmly knocked on his window at the George traffic lights, waited for him to get his words in first, then simply said “button it fatty” before observing his goldfish impression and waitign for the lights to change.

The thing with that cycle path is it could be good !
The road has 3 advantages

1. Both the road and the pavements are very wide
2. The street lights are actually set back almost in people gardens.
3. Side road entrance are generally large with good views.

to improve it they need to do a couple of things

1. Remove remaining street clutter ie telegraph poles and set them back like the street lights.
2. Paint on proper cycle lanes that extend across the side roads giving right of way to cyclist/pedestrians.

scu98rkr – Member
Paint on proper cycle lanes that extend across the side roads giving right of way to cyclist/pedestrians.

Communist.

3. start nailing drivers ears to their dashboards for not only ignoring “giveway to cycle lane” markings but inching out half way across the carriageway.
There’s a contraflow inset to the pavement style one near us, all the drivers I see pulling out of side streets ignore the road markings.

@DezB

It doesn’t matter if on foot, bike, motorbike or car, “you’re in my bloody way” is the urge that gets into them and sanity and logic is lost in the race to overtake (un)safely.

Yeah – but in case you were wondering this is a BIKE FORUM.

Where CYCLISTS can air their grievances and complaints. Or are you saying we shouldn’t?

Yes, I know that, this is about a psychology crossing the boundaries. It’s a human societal impulse and is not just related to those behind a steering wheel. If you don’t explore all avenues then you are being blinkered and possibly discluding reasoning for this behaviour.

ourmaninthenorth
When I have the inevitable “cyclists jump red lights conversation”, I tell people that they can expect cyclists to change their behaviour when drivers stop killing 10 people a day on our roads.

And we’ll have the “cyclists on pavements” conversation when drivers stop killing one pedestrian a week on the pavement.

prezet

I would dispute that (2% of cyclists jump red lights) based on the numbers I see doing it daily. I’d say it’s almost 2% of road using cyclists who DO stop for red lights.

Ah, actual anecdotal evidence.

Just pull a U turn infront of me like I’m not there, then when I have moved to the right to avoid running into the back of your car dither around.

Could have tapped on the car window, motorist oblivious to me being next to them.

Ah, actual anecdotal evidence.

Indeed – and I’m guessing the rest of the road using public notice the same, rather than the facts and figures stated in your fancy pants articles. 😛

project – Member

TJ ever tried defying 20 plus tones os steel driven by a nutter who has decided he IS going to overtake just so he can get to the pub earlier.

Yes – frequently.

What bollocks. You can’t tell from the videos what his road position is. And you can’t comment on it unless you ride the same roads.
I know he put his video up inviting comment, but the sheer arrogance of people on here telling other people how to ride on the road astounds me.

This was this morning. I’m almost in the middle of the road,

~Wahts more – I can see you were not “almost in the middle of the road – but by being a bit wider as you were you at least had somewhere to go. You are well to the left of centre of the lane. Its quite clear.

Waht a lot of folk need to be able to accept is that there can be something to learn about road positioning and awareness. However critisising someones riding is like critising their driving or childcare. some folk just will not have it.

In my opinion some motorists are impatient to overtake because:

Some of them just aren’t thinking at all – thinking about dropping the kids off/their day at work/what to have for tea

Perhaps some of them feel beleaguered because (if you are employed) we pay two lots of tax to buy our cars, two lots of tax for repairs/accessories/spares, three lots of tax for roads (AND pay to park), two lots of tax for vehicle excise licence (which many people still believe is “Road Tax” – it isn’t), two lots of tax for the Congestion Charge and three lots of tax for fuel. Grrr.

Some probably misjudge speed/distance.

A few may be outright psychopaths who have been brutalised in some way and have no feelings of empathy.

We seem, when on our bikes, to be seen as a nuisance, shouldn’t be there/haven’t “bought” our right to be there.

We need a massive government-funded ad campaign to raise awareness.

And for cyclists to stop jumping red lights – it detracts from our position as legitimate road users.

scu98rkr – Member

The thing with that cycle path is it could be good !
The road has 3 advantages

1. Both the road and the pavements are very wide
2. The street lights are actually set back almost in people gardens.
3. Side road entrance are generally large with good views.

to improve it they need to do a couple of things

1. Remove remaining street clutter ie telegraph poles and set them back like the street lights.
2. Paint on proper cycle lanes that extend across the side roads giving right of way to cyclist/pedestrians.

to improve it they need to do a couple of things

It’s the driveways that scare me, it’s a PITA enough riding allong a road occasionaly dodgeing cars inching their way out into trafic without playing russian roulette agaisnt school run mums who probably don’t expect you on the pavement.

A better bet would be to remove all the islands from the middle of the road and replace them with zebra crossings. Then move the carrigeway into the middle with cycle lanes on both sides. It’s got the potential to work quite well as the road wide all the way through Winnersh to the Woosehill roundabout.

I’m not a fan of pavement cycle paths, especialy in towns. They should either be within the road itself (with a solid white line, and red no stopping lines) or seperate sustrans style paths entirely.

dezb; every time this comes up you come across like you have nothing to learn. is that the case?

I certainly know that i could do with some more training.

There’s a huge gap between the way driving is presented by the mainstream media, the car industry, etc:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7jiTlv9wwI&feature=related[/video]

and the reality (NSFW audio)

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYlHpYTx388[/video]

I think it’s what psychologists would term “cognitive dissonance”.

Arguments about the “legitimacy” of a road user group are a load of bumwash. Learner drivers, or anyone doing 40 in a 50 limit, get almost exactly the same treatment.

I can see you were not “almost in the middle of the road – but by being a bit wider as you were you at least had somewhere to go. You are well to the left of centre of the lane. Its quite clear.

Sometimes you talk such utter bilge. How can you tell – where is the camera? Jeez.
Still that same old arrogance means you won’t be told eh?

dezb; every time this comes up you come across like you have nothing to learn. is that the case?

Tell me what have I to learn? How to be safe on my commute? I’ve been doing it for 20 years without injury, how much safer do I need to be?

Tell me what have I to learn? How to be safe on my commute? I’ve been doing it for 20 years without injury, how much safer do I need to be?

no your right; your the best cycle commuter going. as you were. 🙄

What’s needed is a calibrated speedo displayed in the video, then you could send the video of cars overtaking when there is a solid white line while you are going faster than 10mph to the police.

This morning’s ride almost all the cyclists on my commute jumped at least one red light. If we want drivers to respect us as fellow road users then we need to stop giving them ammunition that we’re a danger to ourselves and others.

You don’t get bikes on motorways. You do get motorists who speed, tailgate, and use their phones. Clearly, they have no respect for careful, law-abiding motorists, so what makes you think that perfect cycling behaviour is going to change anything?

(Note: this is not a defence for RLJing)

This morning’s ride drive almost all the cyclists drivers on my commute jumped at least one red light. If we want drivers cyclists to respect us as fellow road users then we need to stop giving them ammunition that we’re a danger to ourselves and others.

FTFY.
That alongside all the drivers I see on the phone, doing their makeup, shouting at the kids, tailgating, speeding, jumping red lights, parking/driving/stopping in cycle lanes and ASLs and driving carelessly/dangerously.

Had an incident the other day on the A6 – surprisingly quiet, 4 lanes, broad daylight and I had on a bright red jacket and flashing lights. From the right, a car pulled out of a side road (slowly, not ragging it) but the guy just didn’t see me at all. he’d done a left/right glance and obviously seen it was surprisingly free of traffic so just pulled out. Forced me hard left towards the kerb, I slammed my hand on his bonnet which was a mere few inches away from hitting me and he pulled out into the second lane away from me.

I came up alongside him on the right (half expecting a tirade of abuse and “what you doing hitting my car”) but got the opposite. Oldish bloke in there absolutely terrified, he was shaking like a leaf. I presume he thought I was about to smash the car up or something and had obviously realised just how close he’d come to knocking me off. Windows up, door locked. He waved and mouthed sorry and I let it go – no harm done.

Not malicious, just pure dumb not-looking-properly. Careless driving.

Been commuting to work now for around 6 months and this is my biggest annoyance. It really is down to confidence and giving yourself the room you need. And don’t get me started on drivers on their mobiles and yes, other cyclists jumping red lights!

crazy-legs – Another one who thinks he fellow cyclists can do no wrong. Wake up.

Dez b unless the camera is on a pole holding it away to your left.

its quite clear to see where the road position is. But of course you can have nothing further to leran.

Me – I have been riding in cities for 40 years and am still learning everyday.

Its simple human nature really. People are perfectly willing to break rules when it confers and advantage to them and the perceived risks or being caught / causing harm are very low.

So drivers (humans who drive a car) are willing to speed, overtake cyclist too close and use their mobile phones.
Cyclists (humans who cycle) are willing to RLJ, and cycle on the pavement.
Pedestrian (humans walking in the street) are willing to ignore traffic signals and cross roads when they know they don’t have priority.

None of these groups is mutually exclusive its just humans acting in their own selfish interests with poor perception of the dangers their actions could cause. If we were able to change people perceptions of the dangers then most peoples behaviour would improve.

A good illustration of this is drivers who also cycle. They are well aware of the dangers of passing cyclist too close so don’t do it. Most of them still speed though.

prezet – Member
crazy-legs – Another one who thinks he fellow cyclists can do no wrong. Wake up.

He’s not saying cyclists don’t just red lights, he’s saying that drivers also jump red lights.

The problem is people, not drivers/cyclists. I’d put money on an almost exact match between the percentage of cyclists that jump reds and the percentage of drivers that jumps reds.

The problem isn’t the jumping of lights, it’s consequences of that action. One results in innocent people being killed, the other in the perpetrator being killed.

So, to which problem does a solution need to be found?

Some interesting comments and some off people who never cycle on a road.it appears.

So if i was out further into the road,the landrover would have hit the car turning right into the craft centre then, and the pickfords lgv, would have had me under it.

They were not going to slow down it appears.

Like ive said before a lot of cars ansd vans jump red lights,lots of drivers use mobiles, lets see them proscecuted as well.

project – Member

Some interesting comments and some off people who never cycle on a road.it appears.

So if i was out further into the road,the landrover would have hit the car turning right into the craft centre then, and the pickfords lgv, would have had me under it.

No – the would have seen you from further away and would have not been able to try to squeeze past.
Please – just try it. there is a reason why its recommended.

just like they didnt see the sloww signs, the sharks teeth, and the big 30 mph signs, as well as me.

I tend to ride further out, like TJ says. It doesn’t stop idiots trying to overtake where there isn’t really space, but it does give me a bigger gap to avoid them.